Helpful ReplyHelp getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass

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kevmsmith81
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2015/06/02 17:12:56 (permalink)

Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass

I'll start off by saying I'm a complete novice when making electronic music.  But my son has asked for my help, and this involves putting a short Dubstep track together.
 
I've got no issue coming up with ideas, but the problems I'm having is getting that wobble bass that Dubstep is famous for.  All the guides I can find involve paid plugins or those which come bundled with other DAWs.  I've got a host of great bass synths, I just can't seem to get the wobble.  I've tried using a seperate LFO plugin on the synth track, but I couldn't figure it out.
 
I saw a great guide which involved using Reaper's in-built EQ to create the wobble, but I've failed to translate this to Sonar.
 
Is there anybody here who can help me with this please?  An idiot's guide would be especially appreciated.
#1
Zargg
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 17:32:07 (permalink)
Hi. Which version of SONAR do you have? IIRC, Rapture has some wobble sounds.
Best of luck,

Ken Nilsen
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#2
kevmsmith81
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 17:38:39 (permalink)
I've got Sonar Professional, so I think that means no Rapture.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 17:38:41 (permalink)
I can't help much other than to say everybody seems to use NI Massive, that's not to say you can't do it with others synths (far from the case). Z3TA+2 is another candidate...

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kevmsmith81
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 18:52:03 (permalink)
The issue isn't the bass synth, it's how to get the wobble.  Does anybody know how to do this please?
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Aharvey
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 18:54:44 (permalink)
Once you have your bass sound try to trigger it thru a side chain..a use a rhythmic drum part or section as the key input..then filter to taste...along with a some automated filtering for extra flavor.
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kevmsmith81
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 19:01:06 (permalink)
Aharvey
Once you have your bass sound try to trigger it thru a side chain..a use a rhythmic drum part or section as the key input..then filter to taste...along with a some automated filtering for extra flavor.




Any chance you can expand on this please, as I'm not sure what you mean.  You'll have to forgive the fact that I'm still relatively new to Sonar. :)
 
What I'm trying to achieve is the wobbly bass, but I want the speed of the wobble to vary throughout different bars, so sometimes it'll be 16ths, sometimes 8ths, etc.
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 19:14:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby thefyn 2015/06/04 13:15:50
I don't know if you've seen the following (from DubStepForum [dot] com). If so, sorry for the waste of bandwidth. If not, it seemed pretty helpful to me. YMMV
 
  
Wobble Bass
'Wobble Bass' as it is known is simply a bassline that has an LFO assigned to a Low Pass Filter as an insert effect. LFO stands for 'Low Frequency Oscillator' and is used to change a sound by a defined speed (measured in either Hz or synced to the Tempo in relation to the bars/notes through quantization.)
The way the LFO changes the sound is up to you, you can make the LFO adjust the Volume, the amount of Saturation, Filter Cutoff etc.

Basically any parameter you link it to. Essentially you are just using the LFO to send a changing value to a parameter.

How to get a simple wobble bass.
1) Choose a simple sound on your synth. (Anything apart from a Sine wave )

2) Select your LFO and set it to the speed you want (1/8 would be a good starting point)

3) Now assign the LFO to the Filter Cutoff. Which should for this example be a Low Pass Filter* as the sound we're going for is a deep bass.

4) You now have a basic wobble bass, from here the possibilities for tweaking this sound are endless.

A quick breakdown of what's actually going on. Essentially you are taking a sound (that can be an audio files, generated by a synth, etc) and then passing it through a Low Pass Filter.
Now what exactly does a Low Pass Filter do you ask?
* A Low Pass Filter allows Low Frequency signals to pass through it, but reduces the amplitude (volume) of all the Frequencies above the cutoff point. In general most plug-ins have various Low Pass Filter settings, where the more poles it has the more Dbs it will cut and will yield a harder knee to it. Example: 1 Pole Filter with a -6dB/Oct reduction Vs a 2 Pole Filter reducing -12Db/Oct.
However, you don't necessarily need a LFO controlling your Low Pass Filter Cutoff frequency value, you could just draw in the Automation yourself, but a LFO will yield a loop of consistent values and prevents the possibility of human error. All the LFO is doing is sending a value to your frequency cutoff to keep it consistently changing.

Tips & Advice
1.) Sub bass wobble would normally be a Sine wave at around the 40-50 Hz range which would repeat the same chords as the mid-range bass wobble. The only difference being that with a sub bass wobble there is no point in assigning the LFO to a Low Pass Filter because the sound is too low for the low pass filter to have any effect, so the LFO is assigned to the amplitude (volume) instead. Another reason for not applying a Low Pass Filter to the Sub bass is because it would typically be a Sine wave which possesses no Harmonics to be adjusted by the Filter.

2.) The sound of an LFO can also be adjusted by the wave type you choose. The default setting for an LFO generator is a Sine wave, although on most synths you can chose from Triangle, Sawtooth, Square wave, Random, Noise. To get a nice sounding bass, it is a good idea to use as many oscillators as possible on different octaves.

3.) Try messing around with the attack and release of your sound as this can have an impact on the sound of the bass. Long attacks tend to create a more ambient sound, and is a technique traditionally used with ambient pads.

4.) Something that I find useful is to bounce the bassline to a .wav file, so that it can be chopped up and put in-sync with other elements of the song; because the majority of the time you will find the first wave of sound in the wobble bassline will be half the length of the other waves due to attack rates. So the best thing to do is to chop that freak sound off the beginning of the file in your DAW (Logic Pro, Reason, Cubase etc) and start off with the second wave which should be fully formed. This way it will not be too early of late when keeping in sync with other elements such as a second bassline.

5.) Another method you can use is creating a clone layer of your original sound and setting up a new LFO setup for that to beat alternatively in the space left by the original LFO. Or go that crazy Drum & Bass Reese route and split the frequencies to Low, Mid and High, then set different LFO rates for each band then recombine into one sound.

6.) For more variation automate your LFO speed and intensity.

7.) Where you place insert effects in relation to the filter (pre or post) will yield different sounding results.

8.) Other methods to achieve a wobble like sound:
Tremolo, (This effects volume rather than frequency)
FM Synthesis,
Modulation of PWM,
Oscillator Pitch assigned (in a liberal amount) to LFO.
Filter Envelope assigned to LFO (using a re-triggered envelope).
(submitted by Faun2500)

9.) Assign a second LFO to modulate the speed of the first LFO.


LFO Shapes

Sine wave: The smooth value change possible.

Triangle: Similar to a Sine wave but slightly more ramped & synthetic sounding.

Random: A mixed bag.

Sawtooth: Will have a very fast attack with a slower release which will sound very rugged.

Square wave: Will be a simple open close style. Very harsh and will generally cause a very harsh sound. (Often used in DJ Hazard style bass-lines). Detune two square waves for a nice dark sounding bass.


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#8
SimpleManZ
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 19:25:01 (permalink)
Check out http://www.meldaproduction.com/plugins/product.php?id=MWobbler
This can allow you to use just about any other preset from any synth to get what you want.
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kevmsmith81
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 19:37:31 (permalink)
Hi all.
 
I did see that guide on the dubstep forums.  Sadly, I'm still none the wiser and I can't get any of the tips I've seen to work.
 
And thanks also for the link above to the plugins.  I was hoping for a free solution as this is simply a quick project and not something I was imagining I'd continue with after it's done.
 
Maybe I'm just not cut out for this!
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scook
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 20:31:22 (permalink)
You might find what your are looking for here http://xenossoundworks.com/z3ta.html Deadly Dubtronica includes presets for both z3ta+ classic and z3ta+2. Pretty cheap @ $7.00
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doriginal
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 21:00:13 (permalink)
If you have Z3TA+2 get the sound pack Deadly Dubtronica - Use the sound Cosine XS them move the speed up and down. Of course musically you will have to come up with something but it wobbles. Also, if you have massive and you know how to use it there are lots of sound packs. 

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kevmsmith81
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 21:01:55 (permalink)
Thanks for that.  However, I'm not looking to spend anything at all right now.
 
I know from reading into this that the wobble is just created from playing around with the frequencies.  So I was thinking there should be a way of doing this through the automation lanes.  I just can't figure out how.
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Aharvey
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 21:16:17 (permalink)
You might be able to use the Bifilter2 to achieve something pretty darn close with some automation..
 
#14
kevmsmith81
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 21:18:01 (permalink)
Aharvey
You might be able to use the Bifilter2 to achieve something pretty darn close with some automation..
 




I'm probably gonna sound even more stupid now, but what is the bifilter2?
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/02 23:19:29 (permalink)
BIFilter2 is a filter plug in, but noot inprofessional
http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=3&help=NewFeatures.19.html
 
What synths are you trying to apply it too? IUt's easier to apply it using the internal LFO, especially if it's rate can be changed with automation, rather than auotmating the whole shape itself. Also if it includes a step modulation source, then you can use that.

 
#16
reactorstudios
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/03 03:41:11 (permalink)
Since the OP mentioned getting something done free, or at least within the tools he already has, I screwed around a bit with the stock Sonar synths this evening.
A halfway decent wobble can be coaxed out of DropZone with little effort.
The key to the wobble, as others have noted, is to get a rhythmic/cyclic modulator assigned to a critical sound shaping parameter. This generally takes the form of an LFO modulating the filter frequency, but you can also modulate amplitude, filter envelope, amp envelope, etc.
It generally helps to use a filter with a steeper slope, as the effects of sweeping through the cutoff range will be more pronounced.  
Subsequently modulating the rate of the LFO will take the effect up a notch. Ya know, modulate your modulator. I believe Native instruments' Massive is so popular in the dubstep world because of the ease with which you can do this. Massive allows you to create custom multi-stage envelopes that can be used for some wicked wobble effects. It also has looping envelopes that can act like LFOs. So, envelopes and LFOs can modulate each other to no end.
 
Anyway, If you want to give it a try with DropZone, heres one way to get there: Pick one of the preset basses. Set the filter to a 4 or 6 pole low-pass, then kick up the resonance a bit. Accentuating the cutoff frequency helps add that bit of 'wub-wub' to the sound. Pick an LFO wave with some slope to it - anything other than a pulse wave. The space between the top and bottom of the cycle is where the wobble lives, so pulse waves that jump from one extreme to the other won't work. Cycle through the wave shapes to find one you like. Crank the depth on the LFO all the way up, then adjust the frequency knob to get the speed of wobble you intend.
You can then make the effect a bit more dynamic by drawing automation in the track lane. Set automation to the LFO frequency and draw a very subtle (shallow)sine-like curve that has the effect of making the LFO frequency 'flutter'. You may also set the LFO on the Amp of Dropzone to match (or close to it) that of your filter LFO and get an interesting result.
 
DropZone is by no means a great synth for wobble sounds, but it can work. So too can almost any synth with assignable LFOs or envelopes (ie. most synths).
You can dress up the sound coming out of the synth by hitting it with bit-crushing or other lo-fi type effects.
 
I think Massive gets you to a decent wobble the fastest if you are starting from an Initialized synth patch.
If you are a dubstep fan you've probably heard of Skrillex. I understand - via interview transcript - that he uses FM8 quite a bit for wobble basses.
I've dabbled in pulling wobbles out of my DSI Mopho using the feedback loop (which can be used in an FM-like way) to pretty interesting effect.
The tools are really endless. The trick is in the technique.
 
Finally, I feel the need to announce that I am not a fan of Dubstep music. I think I aged out of that demographic. At only thirty-five I am starting to lose touch with what the 'kids' are listening to these days.
 
Holy hell there are some killer programming techniques being used by artists within the genre, though.

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#17
kevmsmith81
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/03 04:03:34 (permalink)
Thanks for the response there, I will give dropzone a go.
 
I had been trying with Z3TA, TAL Noisemaker and Dubturbo Sindroid.  I think my biggest issue was there was plenty of mention of using LFO's, but no real "idiot's guide" that I have been able to see, and I do class myself as a bit of an idiot when it comes to this kind of music.
 
I'm a similar age to yourself (33) and have never been particularly into any kind of electronic music.  I'm only doing this to try and help out my son.  Although, having listened to some Dubstep I actually quite like it.
 
Interestingly, I got something resembling a wobble using an EQ and using automation on it, but it didn't work with all EQ's (LP64 wouldn't work with it, for example), and the sound wasn't quite violent enough, but it felt like progress.
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/03 07:10:58 (permalink)
If you have a few dollars check out Rod Papen's Blade. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHxhhgWXCdk

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#19
reactorstudios
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/03 15:22:22 (permalink)
An EQ is just a filter, or series of them, so I don't doubt you can sweep the low end with an EQ and get a wobble sound. You should be able to automate the low pass of the Quadcurve or similar EQ with a steep slope and get a good wobble going. As you pointed out, though, the more extreme the filter the better the wobble.
If you have a version of Z3ta it will definitely blow the doors off of what you can do in Dropzone, but as its a considerably more powerful synth it is also a bit less intuitive to use. 
 

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#20
kevmsmith81
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/03 16:07:19 (permalink)
I do have the version of Z3TA which comes with Sonar professional as it happens.  I just can't figure out the trickery to getting the LFO set up.  As I said, I'm a complete novice with this kind of thing.
 
I did see a tutorial on Youtube, but the guy doing it goes way too fast for me to follow, plus it's only 480p so a load of the text is illegible, so it's not like it's easy to follow it by pausing it and making out the text.
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/03 21:23:35 (permalink)
Z3ta+ and Z3ta+2 are very similar in the Modulation Matrix Area. The MM begins to get used at ~15m in this video. I like that one for "starting out" as the first thing he does is initialize the program (starts from scratch).
 
This link is an overview of the wobble bass, which I have never tried personally, but if you use Z3ta+ the modulation matrix area needs all the fields filled out to work (source - LFO1, range, curve, (affected) control, and destination).
 
I am not a huge synth guy, but some here most definitely are. B rock is one that comes to mind who is very synth heavy and could probably slam dunk this issue for you (may want to try shooting him a PM).
 
Edit -  I just shot b rock a PM and linked this thread.
 
post edited by mettelus - 2015/06/03 21:32:57

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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/04 01:12:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Kamikaze 2015/06/04 01:23:36
Here you go.  I threw together a very "bass-ic" wobble sound in Z3TA.
 
http://www.cryophonik.com/files/bass-ic_wobble.rar
 
Save/unzip the .fxp file somewhere and load it into Z3TA from the "VST2" dropdown in the top window using the "Load Preset" command and navigating to wherever you unzipped the .fxp file.  Basically, it's just a sine-based LFO that is rapidly modulating (increasing/decreasing) the filter cutoff frequency.  You can use the mod wheel on your MIDI controller/keyboard to change the wobble speed.  You should know that it really pains me to help anybody make something as atrocious as dubstep, though, so you owe me big-time for this.  

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#23
MrDoc
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/04 03:18:47 (permalink)
Here's a link to a video tutorial I came across on the Cakewalk Blog that has been immensely helpful to me:
 
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovre1jS-I0A">Digital Sound Factory Z3TA2 Sound Design</a>
 
The tutorial uses Z3ta 2, but the principles are the same.  It's helpful to know how to use LFOs and the modulation matrix so you can get specific effects (such as the dubstep wobble that is described very well in the Maartian's post) with different programs (I'll often add vibrato effects to existing programs using the mod matrix and LFOs).  Cryophonik's program is very nice, and it might work well in your scenario, but it's nice to know how to apply the same effects to other programs, so you can preserve the awesome sounds found in Z3ta's presets while only changing the wobble effect.  A disclaimer, though, is that a lot of the Z3ta presets come with LFOs, filters, and mod matrix programming already assigned, so you have to try and avoid LFOs and filters that are currently in use, otherwise you might alter the sound of the program to a point where it's no longer desirable to you.  If  you find a bass sound in Z3ta that you want to add a wobble to, I could try and alter the program for you could automate the LFO sync to different durations.  My general strategy in doing this (depends on the complexity of the program, though) is:
1. Find an LFO that isn't being used already (the light next to the number won't be lit), select a waveform next to the Wave1 field (sine is usually fine)
2. Find a Filter (1 or 2) that isn't being used and set the type to low pass filter (LPF).  One or both are probably being used in the program already, so this is the step that can really change how your program sounds overall.  If both are being used, I'd probably go with one that is already using a LPF.
3. Find an unused slot in the modulation matrix, assign the source to whichever LFO you used in step 1, set the range all the way up, then set the output to the filter-filter cutoff that you chose in step 2.
4. While playing a note, or previewing a bassline, mess with the speed for the LFO you chose in step 1.  If the effect sounds right, you can set the LFO's sync to some value, then automate that value in the automation lanes.  If you prefer the manual mod wheel feel, set the control in the mod matrix to "Mod Wheel" so you can adjust the speed of the LFO with the mod wheel.
5. If the effect doesn't sound right in step 4, you might need to change the routing of the oscillators to the filters.  Each oscillator can be routed to either filter, or a mix of both, so to get the most of the bass wobble effect, it's probably best to route each oscillator to the filter you're using, that way every component of the sound is being filtered rhythmically by the LFO.
 
Hope that helps.  It probably sounds like a lot of mumbo jumbo if you're not familiar with poking around in Z3ta, but watching that video will help a lot, I swear.  If you watch the portions in the video about adding vibrato with the mod matrix, then re-read the steps above, it should hopefully make sense.
post edited by MrDoc - 2015/06/04 03:25:14
#24
kevmsmith81
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/04 04:08:40 (permalink)
Thanks all for the help.  Hopefully close to nailing this so I can actually get the project properly underway.
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/04 09:31:35 (permalink)
cryophonik
Here you go.  I threw together a very "bass-ic" wobble sound in Z3TA.
 
http://www.cryophonik.com/files/bass-ic_wobble.rar
 
Save/unzip the .fxp file somewhere and load it into Z3TA from the "VST2" dropdown in the top window using the "Load Preset" command and navigating to wherever you unzipped the .fxp file.  Basically, it's just a sine-based LFO that is rapidly modulating (increasing/decreasing) the filter cutoff frequency.  You can use the mod wheel on your MIDI controller/keyboard to change the wobble speed.  You should know that it really pains me to help anybody make something as atrocious as dubstep, though, so you owe me big-time for this.  




Thanks for this, I will try this as soon as I'm able.  If it makes you feel any better, my "Dubstep" will probably not be much like actual Dubstep at all, as I'm not exactly a student of the genre.  I'm more at home listening to the likes of Iron Maiden, so it'll just be my own interpretation.  But I do like the wobble effect, and I have an idea in mind as to how I want to use it. :p
 
I don't have a physical midi controller, will I be able to control the wobble speed using the automation lanes?
 
Thanks for taking the time to do this for me, I do appreciate it.
post edited by kevmsmith81 - 2015/06/04 09:38:44
#26
cryophonik
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/04 11:55:29 (permalink)
kevmsmith81
 
If it makes you feel any better, my "Dubstep" will probably not be much like actual Dubstep at all, as I'm not exactly a student of the genre.  I'm more at home listening to the likes of Iron Maiden, so it'll just be my own interpretation.  But I do like the wobble effect, and I have an idea in mind as to how I want to use it. :p

 
Yeah, I was just messing with you.  I'm not a fan of dubstep, but the wobble bass can be cool for other styles.
 
kevmsmith81
I don't have a physical midi controller, will I be able to control the wobble speed using the automation lanes?
 



Yeah, automating MIDI CC#1 (mod wheel) will do the job.  Also, the mod wheel is just assigned to the "time" parameter for LFO1, so you could automate that parameter directly if you wanted to instead.

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#27
kevmsmith81
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/04 14:02:40 (permalink)
Thanks for the preset.  Sounds great from what I've heard so far.  The only thing is I can't get the variations in the wobble.  I've attached a screenshot to show what I've done.  Can you see exactly what I'm doing wrong?  Thanks.  I couldn't find a MIDI CC#1 control, so I tried the other route.
 

#28
dubdisciple
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/04 14:10:46 (permalink)
Wobble bass was actually popularized in drum 'n bass before dubstep was invented. http://xenossoundworks.com/z3ta.html has some nice wobble presets to start you off for dirt cheap. Not particularly hard to make the simple form of wobnle bass in z3ta and I'm a novice synth programmer. The more growling/squelching FM type variations (Skrillex) are a little more challenging. Closest that can be found in presets readily availa le for z3ta are the encanti mutant expansions found in cake store.
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danholobow
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Re: Help getting a Dubstep-style wobble bass 2015/06/04 14:13:11 (permalink)
Hey Kev,
 
Want wobble then check out Sugar Bytes Cyclop plugin on YouTube that is made for just that purpose.
 
Threes
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