ChuckC
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Help me decide.... please.
I have been & continue to enjoy sonar, I have been a steady user since sonar 8. Now running X2 producer. I like it and planned to stay with Sonar. but my little studio is starting to take off and I am working with more and more bands, and getting the typical "Hey man, do you run pro tools!?" question a pretty fair amount. Between that and the fact that I really really love & enjoy audio and would like to pursue this into a career I have been contemplating biting the bullet and getting/learning the Pro tools platform. So I have been torn over X3 and PT.
Then, I bought a Presonus Studio/live 24.4.2 and for live gigs the Capture software (a stupid simple streamlined version just for quick tracking) makes it pretty fast & easy to track the gig, break up the bands set into separate songs and work with them or send them back to the board to mix down on the SL desk. These capture projects can also be easily transferred to Presonus' DAW Studio one... So I load up Studio one artist and found some feature are really cool. The gapless audio engine is super nice and there are some things I really like, the mastering suite (should I choose to jump to their Pro version ) is excellent and the ability to embed ISRC codes, DDP capabilities & red book standard Cd's are great. I can go to S1 pro for $200 (due to a deal I bout on a special a year ago).... but, then I don't know that software very well, some things in it are driving me crazy.... Crappy meters IMO with no real peak hold value, I still haven't figured out their track layers thing, the transport kinda pisses me off too. So.... I am a freaking basket case and can't choose. Give me your thoughts especially if you have dealt with 2 or more of these platforms! Thanks in advance for any insights.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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jimusic
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 00:35:26
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ChuckC
Then, I bought a Presonus Studio/live 24.4.2...Give me your thoughts especially if you have dealt with 2 or more of these platforms! Thanks in advance for any insights...
Hey Chuck. Sonar was my first DAW from Studio 6 up to X2a Producer and Studio One was my 2nd, primarily because the Artist version came with the Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2 Mixer that I bought about 2 years ago & now I'm up to Professional 2.0.6. I haven't looked into Protools and I'm not really tempted to, although some here have already and seem quite happy with the deal they got. It may be too early to tell, but I've heard good & not so good about it, although one could say that about any & every DAW with so many opinions out there. I will say that I've paid full price, [albeit a fairly good deal] on Cubase 6 this summer which gave me a grace period upgrade to Cubase 7. They just released Cubase 7.5 on Dec. 4th. I haven't opened Sonar or Studio One since. May not be helpful or what you're after, but just some extra food for thought.
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ChuckC
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 01:01:20
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I have been reading articles, threads, forums, reviews and watching videos for a month now. You would be the 1st I have heard of to drop Either Sonar, or S1 in favor of Cubase. Non the less, sir... Thank you for your input!
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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lawajava
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 01:14:24
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ChuckC - I'm not a pro, and I'm not working with multiple bands. So I can't answer to the requests from those players.
But what I would say is that I've gotten really good with use Sonar Producer. I personally would not want to water down my in depth knowledge of the tool, and spread my time thin by trying to experiment and to become an expert in multiple DAWs. For one, I'm not a pro. For another, I don't have the time or budget to spend doing that. And thirdly, Sonar Producer easily does everything I need to do easily.
So my suggestion is to pick one and stick to it. Get the best version of it.
And I think you'd do just fine putting your energy into Sonar Producer X3.
Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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jimusic
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 01:32:24
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ChuckC
...You would be the 1st I have heard of to drop Either Sonar, or S1 in favor of Cubase. Non the less, sir... Thank you for your input!
Your very welcome! Personally, I just feel that Cubase is a few steps ahead with all that they offer in their current full version. [Some others have even said 'way ahead']. I don't feel that they're talking about any included 3rd party plugs or goodies either, but the main core features. I haven't really dug down deep as of yet, but so far Cubase just works for me, as did Sonar - but Cubase has more of what I need & want. Studio One - not nearly so much, regardless of it's continual high praise. In any event, I wish you well in your decision making! Best wishes.
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AT
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 02:14:19
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Bands and such that ask about ProTools either have heard that is the standard and know jack about recording otherwise, or they are thinking of taking part of the project to another studio and they figure that is the standard.
If you like and know SONAR and don't plan on hiring on to a studio house just use SONAR. Answers to inquiring bands can be as simple as "No, I like SONAR's 64-bit engine's fidelity" or any number of reasons to stick w/ SONAR (other than you already own it).
Protools can import wav files from SONAR, or visa versa.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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mudgel
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 03:09:28
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I run PT9HD and Studio One along with Sonar.
I have them mainly for compatibility sake but use Sonar most.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Rain
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 03:42:20
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AT
Bands and such that ask about ProTools either have heard that is the standard and know jack about recording otherwise, or they are thinking of taking part of the project to another studio and they figure that is the standard.
@
That was true a few years back, but not so much in 2013. Most musicians I know - even old timers - are familiar with home recording and own "a little Pro Tools rig". The geekiest of them may have opted for Logic. Or maybe Cubase, or Sonar or Live or whatever. But a lot of them run Pro Tools and/or expect to find Pro Tools HD when they book studio time. Walking into a studio and seeing a PT HD rig is kind of like seeing a SSL console, a Marhsall stack, a bunch of classic compressors and a U67... Those things sell themselves.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Crowned One
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 04:07:36
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I have both Sonar and Pro tools, I stared with Cake's homestudio way back when and then moved to Sonar and kept moving forward with it, I love the skylight interface and the Pro Channel as they have both greatly improved my workflow.
Protools I purchased with an Mbox in version 7 and have upgraded as the deals came up since. It is also a good platform but having developed a good workflow in sonar I would not rush to make it my goto DAW.
I think my choice was in part reflected by what was said above that many larger studios would use pro tools and so questions of compatibility and familiarity come into question.
The basics are the same in all DAWS and I think workflow and learning curve are big facets when choosing.
That being said if money permits it can be interesting to look at other options and not have all your eggs in one basket.
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Guitarpima
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 06:46:53
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☄ Helpfulby Rimshot 2013/12/24 08:41:36
I say just do what you think is best. From what I can tell, any DAW will get you the results you want. The trouble is deciding. Just get a bunch of stuff with flashing lights and buttons and knobs and they can gawk at that stuff while you use what you have.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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cclarry
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 08:10:17
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I, personally, use 7 different DAW's, X3, S1, and Cubase, Reaper, among them...
Feature wise - Cubase...hands down, and the added VST's and features of 7.5 are pushing the gap wider...
GUI and Workflow - X3...hands down
Studio One - while it took some getting use to, it is a viable contender...well thought out and implemented.
The problem is, coming from another DAW, it is quite different, and therefore, intimidating. Once you get
past that "intimidation" and dig into it, it is a very nice DAW.
One of the most "Feature Packed" DAW's I've used is Samplitude. Just the Metering options alone contained in
that package are incredible. The Audio Engine is pristine..I mean seriously pristine and uncolored. It also is
one of the most feature rich applications I've used. It's next on my list to purchase.
The bottom line is always this....
YOU have to decide what is best for YOU. Get the demo's, if available, and try them before making any decisions...
Find the one that fits YOU best, that makes you the most comfortable, that has the best workflow and features for YOU...and then BUY IT. Make an "objective" choice by trying before buying. And there are ample YouTube tutorials to get you familiar with any of them.
That being said, my DAW of choice, because of workflow and GUI, is X3 Pro.
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Sidroe
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 08:58:49
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I have worked with just about every DAW out there. When I get new clients it is usually because of the quality work they heard on one of my projects for someone else. When they come by to ask questions," That CD you did for ____________ sounded so good,man! You must have Pro Tools!" I smile and pull up some earlier work and they start flooding me with questions about Sonar. I usually end up with a new client and some pocket change. LOL!
Clients now are a little more open to using another DAW besides Pro Tools. Although, it still is ingrained in them that they must ask for it. Just be prepared to demo some work in Sonar for them and they will usually warm up pretty quick. Also, be sure to explain that any pro studio out there will have the ability to open OMF files. Sonar can save and open those. I have used saving the project as Broadcast wav files. You can toss those into any DAW. Just make sure they understand that they won't have the same plugins. They'll have to either bounce the tracks with the FX or make sure they keep the original audio files to treat in the next DAW. I have a lot of different DAWs on my studio computer but I can safely say I get asked to use Sonar more times than not.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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ChuckC
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 09:32:47
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Thanks guys... I think I am going to skip the PT for now. Though it is something I intend to learn & become real familiar with along the way.
On one hand I get that it seems like it would be best to be really proficient with one DAW. On the other hand, it seems a bit like saying you should only drive one car FOREVER, this way you get really used to it and know how to run it. If you never try others how would you A) find that you really appreciate the qualities your car has? or B) realize that maybe it's time for a new car? Maybe one is better for daily driving while the other is best for getting plywood home from the store? I am thinking I will continue one with Sonar and at the same time, Dive in with S1 as well. Learn as I go ya know. I appreciate it everyone.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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Sidroe
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 10:18:26
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Not trying to toot the PT horn but if I was going to invest money in any other DAW it would be PT for the simple fact that you are going to be asked if you have that one program probably three times as much as any other. I would not completely write it off. I just wouldn't make the investment unless there was extra money laying around. Of course, extra money is the hardest kind to come by. It's always a pleasure to come here to learn and share.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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vintagevibe
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 10:35:49
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Sidroe
Not trying to toot the PT horn but if I was going to invest money in any other DAW it would be PT for the simple fact that you are going to be asked if you have that one program probably three times as much as any other. I would not completely write it off. I just wouldn't make the investment unless there was extra money laying around. Of course, extra money is the hardest kind to come by. It's always a pleasure to come here to learn and share.
Absolutely agree. I use Cubase for most things and still use Sonar for some but if you have any aspirations of being in the recording business you have to have Protools. Like or not and you could go on and on about how other apps are way ahead yada yada yada ... (and you would be correct) but you have to have protools. It's a fact of the business currently. Do yourself a favor and just get it now and start learning it.
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cclarry
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 10:59:52
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ChuckC
Thanks guys... I think I am going to skip the PT for now. Though it is something I intend to learn & become real familiar with along the way.
On one hand I get that it seems like it would be best to be really proficient with one DAW. On the other hand, it seems a bit like saying you should only drive one car FOREVER, this way you get really used to it and know how to run it. If you never try others how would you A) find that you really appreciate the qualities your car has? or B) realize that maybe it's time for a new car? Maybe one is better for daily driving while the other is best for getting plywood home from the store? I am thinking I will continue one with Sonar and at the same time, Dive in with S1 as well. Learn as I go ya know. I appreciate it everyone.
That's a good plan... Just remember, you don't know anything about a car without at least "test driving" it.... Same with a DAW. For the most part, they all function pretty much the same, it's just the differences in the "How to get there"! Just like a car, they all do basically the same thing...get you from point A to point B.
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mixmkr
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 11:32:47
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I was just in a studio last week that runs PT and they were asking me a lot about Sonar. Not sure why...they're all Mac too. Anyway, I'm not that familiar with PT as I don't use it, but looking at their monitors, it looked amazingly like Sonar that I felt I could jump in and start using it. Give me 40 quality hours on it, I think I'd feel comfortable.
That said, I agree if you're running a *serious* studio, without a doubt, I'd use PT. UNLESS you're already getting clients that come to you, because of YOU and the final product. If you're getting a lot of tire kickers, you'll not convince them. Lots of *young* bands know *too much* and think PT is the only serious platform.
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clintmartin
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 12:16:22
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ChuckC
Thanks guys... I think I am going to skip the PT for now. Though it is something I intend to learn & become real familiar with along the way.
On one hand I get that it seems like it would be best to be really proficient with one DAW. On the other hand, it seems a bit like saying you should only drive one car FOREVER, this way you get really used to it and know how to run it. If you never try others how would you A) find that you really appreciate the qualities your car has? or B) realize that maybe it's time for a new car? Maybe one is better for daily driving while the other is best for getting plywood home from the store? I am thinking I will continue one with Sonar and at the same time, Dive in with S1 as well. Learn as I go ya know. I appreciate it everyone.
Good call! Studio One would be my pick too. The mastering section is what sets it apart for me. You should upgrade to X3 as well...it rocks!
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ampfixer
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 12:44:40
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Hey Chuck, you should send a PM to Danny Danzi. He's got it all going on and working in multiple studio's with multiple DAW set ups. I would respect his views on this.
I have Sonar, Reaper and Studio 1. Now that X3 is out I won't be using anything but Sonar since I don't have any dedicated hardware to use. X3 is much better than any Sonar to date. I think the results you get are more important than the tools you use.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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dubdisciple
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 13:23:26
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One of the things DAWS have done is blur the lines between producer and audio engineer, particularly in pop music. If you are primarily some form of audio engineer and working out of a full fledged studio, Pro tools (with all the accompanying hardware) is the way to go. Most recordings distributed on a large scale end up there, even if they don't start there. If you are more artist/musician or producer, that mandate is not nearly as clear. Plenty of top producers do most of the heavy lifting in other software (order of popularity varies by genre) and then get sent for final mixing in Pro Tools, usually by someone else.
IMHO a move from Sonar to Studio One is a lateral one unless Sonar is somehow failing you in some area. It just means you have to relearn what you already know and abandon experience. I tried S1, it was ok and I am sure if I somehow got stuck using it as my sole DAW, i would adapt, but nothing screams at me "clearly superior". Same goes for Cubase. Definitely features I liked better but some things I liked less.
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Jay Tee 4303
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 13:35:21
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Well, I don't know about y'all, but round here, we have a MODERN, and WELL EQUIPPED, studio, with Sonar, ProTools, Cubase, and Ableton. Matter of fact, I bet I could actually open those PT, Cubie, and Abby LT/SE programs that came bundled free w various hardware, and even record something with em, if Sonar ever fell short of meeting my needs, but it hasn't so far. Naturally, guest engineers and producers are welcome to click on any tool they choose, but the Native Language of this facility, and your's truly, for more than 20 years running, is Cakewalk. We use Seagate hard drives, exclusively, for the exact same reason. We don't have time to waste on fads and Johnnie Come Latelys, because we use the industry standard tools that have defined digital recording since it began.
post edited by Jay Tee 4303 - 2013/12/24 13:41:17
IBM PC/XT 1 MB RAM 8087 Math Co-Processor 5 Megabyte Seagate Hard Drive Twelvetone Cakewalk Version 2.0
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bitflipper
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 14:02:17
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2013/12/24 14:58:31
An artist comes in and asks if you're using PT...my reaction would be "why do you ask?"
Is it because...
1. He's using the term in the generic sense, meaning any computer-based DAW
2. He's trying to impress his bandmates that he knows some terminology
3. He's a home recording enthusiast himself, and genuinely wants to know
4. He knows Pro Tools and figures you'll be needing his help with the mix
Answers...
1. I use something very similar.
2. Not today. You guys deserve nothing less than the high-end stuff.
3. Nope, it's SONAR. (No further explanation needed)
4. Have I quoted you a price yet? (If not, multiply x 2)
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bapu
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 14:58:41
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bitflipper
An artist comes in and asks if you're using PT...my reaction would be "why do you ask?"
Is it because...
1. He's using the term in the generic sense, meaning any computer-based DAW
2. He's trying to impress his bandmates that he knows some terminology
3. He's a home recording enthusiast himself, and genuinely wants to know
4. He knows Pro Tools and figures you'll be needing his help with the mix
Answers...
1. I use something very similar.
2. Not today. You guys deserve nothing less than the high-end stuff.
3. Nope, it's SONAR. (No further explanation needed)
4. Have I quoted you a price yet? (If not, multiply x 2)
'Nuff sed.
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vintagevibe
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 15:02:27
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The actual real value in PT are the inter studio compatibility the control surfaces. If your business gets to that level there is nothing in the industry that competes with the deep integration of AVID control surfaces. The Slate Raven is a possible a step in the right direction but I'm just guessing. On the Sonar or any other DAW forum you'll mostly hear that you don't need Protools. Talk to other studio owners and make your decision based on business and not company loyalty. Just my opinion.
post edited by vintagevibe - 2013/12/24 17:47:58
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bitflipper
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 18:04:24
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You're absolutely right, vv. I'll amend my post:
5. Will you be having someone else mix this project, then? See reply #4.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bapu
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 18:07:46
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If I were operating a revenue generating studio, I'd own a copy of ProTools even if I never used it I could honestly say to prospective customers "Yes, I own ProTools as well as some even more modern and more powerful DAWs."
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 18:15:32
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"Yes, I own ProTools, as well as some DAWs that will run my seventeen hundred and ninety nine VSTs"
fixed.
:-)
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bapu
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 18:16:56
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Well played McQ. Well played.
BTW, Happy Holiday Season to you and yours.
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bapu
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 18:17:21
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dubdisciple
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Re: Help me decide.... please.
2013/12/24 18:25:35
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Tough holiday season when Bapu is slumming it with only 1782
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