Help me out here.... Do you prefer to write--> Record--> rehearse-->play out?

Or Write -->rehearse--> play out a bunch first-- then record?
 
   I know I will probably get a biased opinion here because this is after all a RECORDING forum, however.   With my current band, I can't seem to get them to commit to recording our stuff?!   It's a new line up (about 6 months ago it changed 2 out of 4 members)  we scrapped all the old stuff and started over.  Wrote 6 songs in the 1st practice!  Inspiration was going like crazy...  We have written a few more, dropped one or two that were lack luster, we have been playing show case gigs 3-4 a month and practicing every week in between them.   We've got them pretty tight, haven't changed anything on them & I say lets track them and get some of our new material out to the public. 
    Back in December the guys hesitantly agreed to do so in Jan. after the holidays.  It got pushed back as some gigs came up, same thing now in Feb.  They are saying march, and asked what was the rush?... they didn't/don't feel we were ready yet and that parts were not "locked down".  I ask who's parts aren't?  I am playing the same thing every time, so are you guys! Our live show is tight!   Yet, the only Cd we have is old stuff with old members and we don't even play that material anymore....  Give our fans something new, keep them interested.  I think after 6 months it is reasonably acceptable to expect the drummer to have "locked down" which fills he likes and the bass player to have done the same right?  As far as I am concerned I am perfectly content to write it, do a rough recording (1 mic in the room)  listen back, critique it, improve arrangements etc., re-write, practice a few times, lay it down  it down to a grid (click), and then everybody knows... those are your parts... play it like that EVERY TIME.  Now let's go gig!   BUT NOPE.  These guys (who btw are all great musicians, the best drummer, bass player, and front man I have ever worked with in 25+ years) have all been playing out in bands for over 20 years can't seem to buy into that theology?    Bands go in the studio all the time to write & record the next album, THEN they practice the set, and go tour!  I don't wanna tour (I'm too old) but we do play original rock and enjoy it, we are a good band but the pace of progress is too slow for my damn liking.    I built my own studio so that I CAN be prolific & write/record a lot.  This should be the most well documented musical period of my life.... but MY band hasn't released anything new since 2011.   Am I crazy here guys?
 
 

I personally think it's best to record a band after a tour or long series of gigs. Everybody has their parts worked out and the band is at their tightest.
 
That of course is leaving out the "I've been in a van with you for three months and want to freaking STRANGLE YOU" factor though which can get a little hairy in the studio.

It all depends on what you're trying to get out of your music.
 
a)You can "go into the studio" to write and record songs, you then go "on tour" to promote the CDs you produced.
b)You write a bunch of songs during practice which you add to your set list. You record a few tracks to sell at your gigs to promote your live playing.
c)You gig every Friday/Saturday.  It's great fun, it gets you out of the house, keeps you out of trouble (from the missus).  Recording?  Why?  That's WORK isn't it?
 
One of those is Pro, one Semi-pro and one because it's GREAT FUN MAN.  Which do your band mates fit best?

James - yeah it seems odd as hell at least to me...
 
Beepster - I understand that too, at the same time, we are not out touring, just gigging a bunch, and the songs are about as tight as they are gonna get.  At least UNTIL we record them.  In my experience that always seems to make a band tighter as any issues are highlighted in the process of recording, fixed, and re-tracked.
 
Tony - I get that dude, and during that first practice I was rolling "tape" to capture stuff as it came out, (I generally roll at lease 1 condensor mic in the room when we are writing.
 
Karyn- There (in a nutshell) is the problem, I am and have always been A) (currently minus the touring), and the other 3 guys are really more C) than anything. We have reached an impasse and things are simmering up to a boil because of it and a few other issues.
 
Spacey - yep, your are right, in this case this line up evolved from another.  We lost 3 guys, added 2 new ones.   The old band was more about working the songs hard, playing them out a few times to test them, then record, & gig to promote them.  This current group is more..... Jam & crank out new stuff, sounds good enough?  OK, GIG!   and that's what it comes down to.    In the end, I am not on the same page with the new bands agenda, or writing style and I think I am going to bow out of there and go do what is going to make me happy.   I don't want to waste my time or theirs.  IF I wanted to just go gig, I'd do covers and make some freaking money.  We do Originals, It's about the MUSIC to me.

Wow...  It just hit me that I don't really do any of those four things anymore!  

I only ever recorded as a band on a couple of occasions and at the time, because it was new and "cool" - "yeah man, the gigs are on hold, 'cos we're in the studio at the moment" -  sounded a good thing to say when someone asked what you were up to and part of me didn't want it to end, but taking off the rose tinted specs and looking back, there was an awful lot of just hanging around doing not much while the guitarist did take 67 of that solo he'd never played the same twice, so does it really matter FFS !!
 
So, if your new band mates experience of recording is kinda like that, then that might explain their reluctance. Personally speaking, I've been asked a couple of times to join bands in the years since, but it wasn't really practical as other commitments meant that I didn't really have a proper amount of time to give to it, so I declined. Now I have the time, but can't be bothered with the whole performing thing, so I'm just a recording guy now for my own interests. I've done a few on-line collabs as I like having the input/ideas of someone else too, but even then it's got to be someone who is on the same page as to what the aim of the project is.  I guess it depends what you really want out of it at the end of the day. I have no ideas about becoming famous, known even, or making money. Most of the people around me don't really get it, why do I do this and what is the point ?  I tell them, it's just something I do to the best of my ability for my own enjoyment and hopefully get better at over time, there is no plan. They look at me like WTF ???  That said, I don't really understand their fascinations with gardening or constantly fiddling with the house or whatever either, so I guess I can't blame them for not getting it.
 
 
 

Hi, Chuck. Sorry, man. I should have read the content of your post but I've got a million things on the go so I'm bouncing all over the place. My answer was in response to the title.
 
If you guys have been gigging and rehearsing a lot get thee to the studio for sure. I don't know what it is about some musicians and sabotaging possible recordings but it seems like I've ALWAYS (aside from one of my earliest bands) had to drag my bandmates into the studio kicking and screaming. Even then I've had multiple recordings f*ck up at the last minute because people lost their minds and disappeared or did something so incredibly stupid we had no choice but to hoof them. Insecurity? Fear of success? Laziness? Insanity? I have no idea. I've always been the type who WANTS to get my stuff recorded and LOVE being in a studio cutting tracks.
 
I'd really press your guys to serious pre-production rehearsing if they are feeling their parts need some work and set a date to at least get your beds down. I kind of pissed off all of my bandmates one time by flipping out on one member who kept being all wishy washy about his parts and the recording I had been pushing for a year. I basically said get your sh*t together, practice your ass off every spare moment you have and quit being such an Eore or I'm gonna play your parts. He almost cried and the rest of guys were calling me all upset because I was so "mean" to him but you know what? He did it and his playing got a million times stronger. I booked the studio for a couple weeks later and I consider that album to be one of the most important things I've done to date. It was a group effort of course but if I hadn't have kicked their asses into gear and made all the necessary arrangements with the studio and a local label it never would have happened. As soon as it was released we went from just another droogie f*ck up band playing krust gigs to being asked to play EVERYWHERE and our shows were always packed with highly enthusiastic young lunatics.
 
Unfortunately the followup got sabotaged by multiple lineup changes, screwed up beds and general chaos. Now I'm taking what was actually put to tape and going to try to cobble something together from the useable stuff and build around it all on my own. It breaks my damned heart we didn't get that one in the bag when we had the chance. The reason? Our drummer was losing his mind and decided to quit. I made him PROMISE me that he would show up to do the beds with me and the engineer. All he had to do was show up, play the set a couple times and that was that. He swore up and down he would be there. The night comes and me and the engineer wait for 3 freaking hours before we packed it in. I never saw the drummer again and the band was never as tight as it was after that. F*ck!
 
The moral of the story? You never know what's gonna happen or when. Best to strike while the iron is hot otherwise you may end up kicking yourself years later like I am.
 
Good luck.

ChuckC
 
  I am not in this to gig endlessly and never have anything to show for it, no token to keep 10 after the band has dissipated.     
 
 

 
Yeah, I hear ya there. My old band recordings all got stolen along with my regular music collection in a burglary and that was the worst bit about the whole episode - most of the bought stuff was/is easily replaceable, but the band stuff would have been totally worthless to anyone else and probably just chucked away somewhere once the burglar sat down and went through his haul and realised what he had there, so now I have nothing to show for any of that other than a few photos and a crappy video. There were some damn good songs amongst that, but now people have to take my word for it and you can almost hear them thinking.........ok, yeah, if you say so...........
 
I agree about the covers v original thing too. We occasionally slipped a cover in as part of an encore type thing, but other than that stuck to our own stuff which is much harder to get across to your typical bar crowd.

Guitarhacker
 
 
I've played in a number of bands, most of them really decent bands, gigging and making money. We were mostly cover bands and I tended to be the only songwriter in the groups. We played a few of the songs I wrote but that's as far as it went.
 
No one, in any of the bands I was in really took it seriously beyond the Friday & Saturday night gig at the honky-tonk, and pay me in cash on Saturday night.
 
I tried to talk about recording and maybe trying to write as a group and that was almost always met with the deer in the headlights stare, followed by an awkward period of silence, until someone broke the silence with..... "hey, lets go to the burger joint, I'm hungry" and that was the end of that conversation.
 
I see your situation as normal...based on what I have lived. Gigging and playing covers is like the one night stand that turns into a shack up situation. It's good and we're gonna stay here for a while and enjoy this thing...... whereas recording becomes the "ring and vows" part of the equation. It indicates a more serious commitment to the relationship in the band.... and some folks don't want that.  (am I reading too much into it?)
 

Well, yes...I can see why a covers band wouldn't be too interested in recording, but Chuck's band is doing all original material. Seems strange to me that they wouldn't want that material recorded.

I read it three times, Moshie. The most I can draw from it is that you are suggesting musicians go freestyle and become comfortable doing so... which I don't believe anyone here has said is a bad thing. However, neither is hammering out parts and getting a good recording together (which you seem to be arguing against). To transfer that concept to the dramatic arts... well the stage equivalent of a studio record would be a film. Heck, we used to have shows where actors would do the entire performance uncut and simply had the cameras rolling to tape so the actors freedom and improv skills were still on display (like All in the Family). They may have done a segment over again but it did not take away from what I'm assuming you are talking about and it would be akin to a live of the floor performance.
 
But your point is a little muddled. I would, with all due respect, say that perhaps you are the one who did not communicate your ideas well which is kind of important for directing theater and film. I've never had a problem communicating musical ideas to musicians of any knowledge level or skill. In fact I've trained complete beginners to be band ready within a couple months.
 
If you are indeed implying what I think you are, which is the notion that somehow musicians who aspire to produce albums are not true artists or fooling themselves, well I have to disagree. Specific musicians in specific configurations (like a band) are an extremely limited commodity. I can't just call up Primus or Tower of Power to come perform in my apartment while I sip on my morning tea. Also bands change line ups, breakup or have members outright die so without a time machine or learning the dark art of necromancy I'm not going to be able to go back to enjoy Live at Leeds era Who. Even then I may prefer those performances over something else they would offer up because they always changed how the songs were played each gig (which is that whole live freedom you seem to be referring to). There are also things that can be accomplished in a studio that can't or shouldn't replicated/attempted live.
 
Really, if you are indeed poopooing the studio process for capturing a band's music it seems like a bizarre and extreme "purist" mentality that would deprive the world of so much. The ability to capture music to wax, then tape and now bits and bytes truly is one of the best things to happen to musicians and music lovers alike.
 
It also makes me wonder... (and don't get me wrong here, I enjoy your oddball posts) what the heck you are doing hanging out on a recording forum if you disagree with the process so much. lol
 
;-)

In the end...all these methods CAN be effective.

If you're doing covers, I rehearse, then record, then rehearse some more....LOL

In the case of originals, you can record, get the idea down, work out your parts, get
it all down to what you want, and then rehearse to make sure it's tight before you take
it on the road.

If you're already on the road, and the band wants to "work it out" before recording, that's not
a bad idea either.

I guess what I'm saying is, it comes down to "which way works best for you all as a band"...

With music, while there are "rules" per se...they are more "Guidelines" to a creative process,
which really can't be put in a box (the process - not recording "in the box" LOL).

spacey

Guitarhacker
we were before the days of decent home studios)
 

I call BS Herb. I know I'm older or about the same age as you and there were many home studios around me in 1970.
You apparently just weren't around or knew of any.
..........
The problem was what the hell did you do with a tape?  ............. If you've been there then you know...they don't even open it!
 
Back then that tape was limited to the local radio station IF you were lucky enough to know the owner and DJ 

No BS..... In the 70's, 80's, and even into the early 90's,  very few musicians had the financial means to set up a "decent" home studio. Today, with a spare computer and $40 in software you can have a studio of sorts.  The quality of which can rival a "pro" studio's sound.
 
Sure, anyone who had a reel to reel or a cassette machine, a mic and a spare bedroom,  could record, but the quality just wasn't there. I knew of several guys who had reel to reel ( 2 track stereo) machines and a 6 channel mixer and called that a "home studio". There were 4 track reel to reel machines, and 4 track cassettes, which, incidentally, I had one of each at different times. I still would not call that a studio.
 
Here in NC during that time, if you wanted to record, you went to either  Kinston, or, a studio in, of all places, Bailey, or Raleigh to get good recordings done.  I eventually met one guy who had a "home studio" in Goldsboro, where, the owner,  was in a bluegrass band, and also a very well off and successful  business man, purchased the mixer and 16 track machine from Sound Hut (Kinston) when Clark upgraded to 24 tracks. That was the closest to a home studio that existed around here during those years. The 16 track tape machines were just too expensive for the average picker to afford. I demoed a few tunes in Kinston and Goldsboro before I got into multitrack tape home studio gear.
 
Heck, even now in NC, the number of musicians with "decent" home studios  around here, is limited. I'm not in the circles of musicians now like I was during my gigging days, but through the grapevine, I don't know of many who have home studios.

I like to write and play for my enjoyment. edit> No... really, I am old and lazy, but happy enough. At least my wife enjoys my music!
 
YOU... are moving in the right direction and though I have not yet read all the responses if I were you I would set everything up and sort of put them in a corner, just record it. If they refuse then, I think you have a bigger problem and should move on. I think you should, in general, take Beeps advice and make them "man up", as it were. I wish someone had done that to me in 1971 when I knew everything, didn't need to learn lyrics, and was more interested in getting high than getting good. Then again, I don't think I ever wanted to go on the road. Married home life suits me better.
 
J