Helpful ReplyHelp on creating a good but minimal home studio

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molsp
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2016/02/09 09:56:51 (permalink)

Help on creating a good but minimal home studio

Hello, I hope I am posting this in the right place - please excuse me if not and point me in the right direction?
 
I wonder if I could get some help and advice. I wish to update my home recording studio. This is what I currently have: My PC is running windows 7 and I use Cakewalk Sonar for composing (as I can't play or read a note I use the piano roll) I attach my
Microphone (MXL990) to an M-audio fast track pro and record directly into Sonar and listen to output via an old pair of speakers
(Edirol MA-20D) which are connected to the back of the fast track machine.
 
The problems/bugs I have:
* When I record vocals I get lots of popping and clicking
* I quite often get notes with hang on forever
* When I mix I have to rely entirely on headphones as my speakers don't give me stereo.
 
I am a complete technophobe, so simple is best for me, especially when it comes to hardware ( I once had a Mackie 16 track and it nearly made me demented:-/).  I am very much a hobby composer but work with my local am-dram group to make original panto songs etc. so I would like to do the best I can.
 
Has anyone any experience of Sonar Platinum or any ideas to upgrade my Audio interface and speaker setup?
Is it, in fact time to get a new PC?
Any help greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance
 
 
#1
dwardzala
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/09 10:18:11 (permalink)
Posting your PC specs will help - see my sig for what's needed.  As far as an interface is concerned, I know a lot of people have struggled with M-Audio products.  I have heard a lot of good things about Focusrite and recent TASCAM interfaces (although I own neither - I will likely be upgrading to one in the near future.)
 
Also, does your computer have WiFi enabled?  If it does, try disabling it.  WiFi has been known to cause a lot of clicks and pops on some systems.

Dave
Main Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD
MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller
Win10 x64 Home
Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d)
 
Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD)
M-Box Mini v. 2
Win 10 x64 Home
Sonar 2016.10 Platinum
 
Check out my original music:
https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
 
 
#2
gswitz
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/09 10:26:45 (permalink)
Tips... it's like monopoly, spread money evenly to get all of one color. Better a monopoly of cheap than one property of expensive.

Focus close to the sound source. That means good instruments before good Mics. Good Mics before good converter.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/09 10:41:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/02/09 10:50:35
We really need a few pieces of relevant information to give you the best advice:
 
  1. Your BUDGET
  2. Intended USE (is it just you or do you want to track bands?)
  3. Your SPACE - what type of room are you currently operating from, has it had any treatment?

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/09 11:09:43 (permalink)
I have a Fast Track Pro and have used it on Win7 with Sonar. It wasn't a great experience. It's an older interface and the latest driver was a bit flakey. The sound quality isn't great either. 
 
That said, if you don't have ASIO4ALL on your system and have no other audio or midi devices installed it should work. Try keeping a minimum buffer size of 256 samples. 
 
If you're looking to upgrade stability a new interface would be the first place I'd look. RME is a brand with a great reputation for driver stability and long-lasting support. It's on the pricier side but if you can afford a second hand Babyface or Fireface UC(X) that'd be a great investment.
#5
molsp
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/09 17:21:18 (permalink)
Thank you so much  for your responses.
I think getting everything even is good advice gtzwitz but how do you know what that is?
As regards budget.... well, i guess £2000 ish, maybe a bit more if i have to change pc as well.
I don't need to record instruments or multiple voices and my studio is in a converted garage (which also doubles as my workspace / salon) only treatment it has had is cavity wall insulation, nothing special. but i have great neighbours (detached) who don't appear to hear me too much. As regards PC spec, I will have a look at how i find that out and report back (its about 6 years old now) thank you all.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/09 17:30:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/02/09 17:42:31
Great stuff Molly.
 
When you've got your computer spec, go into your profile, edit it and put it in your signature like lots of us have done.
It saves us having to ask the same thing repeatedly and saves you from having to type it out all the time, just like Dave suggested above.

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/09 17:32:16 (permalink)
Also, be sure to include your hard drive setup - number, size, type, what they're used for etc.

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Zargg
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/09 17:59:59 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby SF_Green 2016/02/14 04:06:16
Hi. If it was me, I would probably look into RME with regards to AI, as they have have great drivers. And the stability is just awesome. If I had the possibility to treat my room properly (it is to tiny, so I do not), I might have gone there first.. 
And welcome to this forum
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
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Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
#9
Zargg
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/09 18:03:14 (permalink)
Ps. You do not include whether or not you "need" a new pc, if you have monitors to mix on, or if you will be using a headset... 
Enjoy the journey
All the best.
 

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
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Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
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Afrodrum
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/09 18:25:40 (permalink)
Your mic and speakers are more than decent. Check in Prefernces  if you are running Sonar in ASIO mode. If you still have glitches raise latency. If glitches disappear but latency is to high to accept thats when you need to look into computer specs (post it here) and perhaps interface.

Windows 10/64, Intel i7 Xeon X6575 3,07GHz, 24Gb RAM, chipset: Intel X58 Express, Kingston SSD 240Gb,  Sonar Platinum , Edirol UA-25.  (Some extra VSTs: PSP almost all/  IK - AT4, ST3, / AAS - all/ TH3 full/ +10dB/ Melodyne Editor). EVE sc205 monitors, Defil Kosmos guitar, blue lava lamp, ashtray.  And there is some great music you may find at: https://soundcloud.com/pawel-jan-1
 
 
 
 
#11
dwardzala
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/09 21:32:25 (permalink)
molsp
Thank you so much  for your responses.
I think getting everything even is good advice gtzwitz but how do you know what that is?
As regards budget.... well, i guess £2000 ish, maybe a bit more if i have to change pc as well.
I don't need to record instruments or multiple voices and my studio is in a converted garage (which also doubles as my workspace / salon) only treatment it has had is cavity wall insulation, nothing special. but i have great neighbours (detached) who don't appear to hear me too much. As regards PC spec, I will have a look at how i find that out and report back (its about 6 years old now) thank you all.


For computer specs, you can go to "computer" in your start menu and then click on system properties.  That should show you your processor type and memory.  My guess based on the age is that you might want to upgrade it.


Here is a pretty basic list of stuff that you might need/want in a project studio (in sort of a priority order):
Audio Interface preferably with ASIO drivers (2-4 inputs based on what I think you are going to do with it)
Microphone (you have one that will work)
Headphones (if you are recording with the mic, you will want phones, you can mix with them as well)
USB Midi keyboard controller (if you are planning on doing an Midi stuff)
Audio monitors (you have some which will work)
Various stands/cables
 
Also, regarding the audio interface - if you decide to upgrade your computer, you will need to make sure that it has USB2 ports or get an interface that is compatible with USB3 (assuming you get a USB interface.)
 
Also Tweakheadz has a great guide on project/home studio recording.  It can be found here.

Dave
Main Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD
MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller
Win10 x64 Home
Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d)
 
Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD)
M-Box Mini v. 2
Win 10 x64 Home
Sonar 2016.10 Platinum
 
Check out my original music:
https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
 
 
#12
Vastman
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/09 22:10:56 (permalink)
Another thing that's important... what do you want to do?  what synths/vsts do you have.  With a 2000$ budget spread over all the essentials I think RME is really OVERKILL... there are a lot of good stable interfaces from focusrite, NI, presonus, among others...for a couple hundred bucks.
 
If I were to "have" or "buy" one instrument that covers virtually ALL the bases and for which there is lots of youtube instructions (skippy at plug in guru) it would be Omnisphere2.  I have a zillion things... that is the one i would keep way above any other piece of gear. It can do pretty much anything you can imagine.

Dana
We make the future... Climate Change Music
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#13
Sanderxpander
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 02:51:11 (permalink)
For me personally, a good interface is paramount. Everything sounds better and works better, even with older software or PCs. I would really hate to recommend a collection of "almost" good gear to someone who comes in here complaining of issues. I would rather sink 500/1000 in a serious interface than make do with another 200 bucks half-solution that got the OP where he is now. As always, your mileage may vary. 
#14
molsp
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 05:06:07 (permalink)
Here are my computer specs I'm not sure which bits are relevant so I am just typing all of it
model: ixtremeM3720 rating 3.3
processor: intel (R) Core (TM)2 Quad Pro Q8300  @2.50 GHz 2.50GHz
RAM 4.00GB (3.75 usable)
64 bit  05
 
I now use only the soft synths that come with Sonar, I used to have a Roland JV1010 but I got rid of it because I couldn't really tell much difference in sound quality and it freed up some space on my desk.
In terms of what I want to achieve. I want to keep to have the ability to write and compose with as few gadgets as possible and then record vocal on top. I would also like to put some of my songs onto the internet and see what other people think of them.
 
I am in the UK so I need stuff that's available here
 
Is it worth me getting a midi keyboard (as I can't play) ? I usually just input via the piano roll.
 
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice.
 
#15
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 07:05:56 (permalink)
Hi Molly.
 
To be brutally frank, I think your computer is seriously underpowered and you should consider spending a chunk of money on getting a new one, along with a suitable interface.
 
Have a look on the Carillon website:
 
http://www.carillonac1.com/tower-core-1.html
 
They sell a variety of computers at a competitive range of prices and they will also configure an audio interface for you as well as any software you want installed.
 
There are other sellers in the UK market so shop around.
 
DEFINITELY get yourself a Midi keyboard, your workflow will speed up enormously. Again, you need not spend a fortune on one and again, Carillon will supply & configure into your system.
 
You'll get a sizeable chunk of change from £2,000 if you do your research carefully

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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#16
patm300e
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 07:07:38 (permalink)
Left Click Once on Computer to the right of START menu to select it, The right click and select Properties.  That will show you CPU & RAM as well as Windows Version (Pro, home, etc.).
 
If you need help with PC set up, there are Pros here that can build them for you (
Jim Roseberry for one).  I hear his systems are stable and quiet.  He will also consult with you and give you information if it does not make sense to ship the thing across the pond.  I definitely recommend this path since he has already figured out how to solve all the recoding issues (clicks and pops, slow machine etc.).
 
 

SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive.  Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
#17
Zargg
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 07:22:36 (permalink)
Taking a look at Jonesey's site, I found this for under 2000£
https://www.carillonac1.com/index.php?dispatch=checkout.cart
Just a thought..
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
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Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
#18
molsp
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 09:59:23 (permalink)
Ken, is that link meant to take me to a shopping cart with stuff in?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 10:09:45 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/02/11 17:36:45
My link does 

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Wood67
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 10:25:39 (permalink)
I think the advice here is pretty good.  Always difficult to tell on the PC front, but it does look as though that would be probably the most significant purchase (but then you can also use it for other stuff as well!). I got my rig from Computerplanet (good service and custom builds).
 
 Aside from that I would go for something like the Focusrite Scrarlet 2i4 (around GBP149 from most online places) as a pretty solid USB interface for the price.  That will give you 2 inputs which should be enough for what you need now.
 
If you are tracking and mixing using 'phones you should budget for something there.  I have a pair of AKG K702 which are superb, but because they are open backed you may find the noise bleed too much for vocal tracking.  Alternatively get some in-ear buds for tracking, but use the better phones for mixing.  If you go this route you won't need to spend large amounts on monitoring, which then needs room treatment and everything else.
 
Lastly, as Jonesey suggests do get a small midi keyboard controller. 25 key is enough to make your job so much easier.  A bunch of options here, and something like the Arturia KeyLab25 (at around £150) includes a whole bunch of analog synth patches with basic editing capability.  By all means check out Omnisphere but be careful.  I did, and immediately bought it (and the v2 upgrade as well!).

Wood

Studio One 3 Pro, (Sonar Platinum), Intel i7, Win10 Pro, 32Gb ram, RME Babyface Pro, Behringer X-Touch, Presonus Faderport, Akai MPK49, Arturia KeyLab25, KRK Rokit 5 monitors, and other sonic surprises.
#21
Zargg
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 11:41:37 (permalink)
molsp
Ken, is that link meant to take me to a shopping cart with stuff in?


Yes, and sorry if it did not. It was a Novation Impulse 49, RME Babyface and a pc (the one in Jonsey's link).


Ken Nilsen
Zargg
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Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
#22
molsp
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 14:01:35 (permalink)
thats definitely do-able for me, thanks Ken and Jonesy - So, along with my speakers and mic I don't need anything else??    
 
PS Jonesy - sorry to sound like a numpty but how would I use a midi keyboard?
#23
slartabartfast
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 14:25:55 (permalink)
molsp
 record directly into Sonar and listen to output via an old pair of speakers
(Edirol MA-20D) which are connected to the back of the fast track machine.
 
The problems/bugs I have:
 
* When I mix I have to rely entirely on headphones as my speakers don't give me stereo.




If you have two speakers why are you not getting stereo? Is one of them dead? 
#24
molsp
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 14:35:30 (permalink)
No, they both work but if i pan something hard right i don't hear it - i feel its to do with how they are connected to my fast track. Each speaker has a jack plug and they go into a 2 to 1 jack plug and then into the fast track. 
#25
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/10 14:43:44 (permalink)
Right, your Fast Track has separate outputs for Left & Right - replace your 2 into 1 with 2 separate cables
 
You will connect your Midi keyboard via a spares USB socket on your computer - we can help you get it configured inside Sonar

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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#26
molsp
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/11 15:19:21 (permalink)
Thanks everyone for all your input - I think I need a new computer as well and I think that carillon is the way i will  go.
 
#27
JayCee99
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/11 16:14:08 (permalink)
You don't need a new computer.  Your processor and 4 gigs of RAM should be fine unless you are doing huge track counts with lots of effects or VST's.  In my opinion SONAR needs a bit more RAM and CPU power than something like Reaper, but it should still work fine.
 
More important is the latency of your audio interface and your buffer settings. 

Sonar Platinum
Audio Interface: Focusrite 18i8 ASIO Interface 
Keys: Korg Kronos 88, Alesis VI25
Windows 8.1 x64 Laptop, 8GB RAM, i7 CPU
#28
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/11 17:07:56 (permalink)
I disagree, for all of the reasons outlined above by myself and others

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#29
Sanderxpander
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Re: Help on creating a good but minimal home studio 2016/02/11 18:28:39 (permalink)
It's probably a bit of both. I will say that a high quality interface gets a lot more use out of an older computer. 
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