Help required with x3

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kidsinglish productions
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2014/07/23 00:11:51 (permalink)

Help required with x3

Hi, I upgraded from sonar 8.5 to x3 several months ago but haven't managed to get it working and figure out how to use it.
Here are my most urgent issues (in order of priority) - I wonder if anyone could help me solve them.
1. In 8.5 cakewalk TTS and roland groove synths were my main workhorses for midi recording (I do children's music - so perfect set of sounds). However when I insert in x3 these synths don't have any soundbanks/instruments - just a horrid generic synth sound. How can I solve this problem?
2. How do I insert a new midi tempo part way through a piece of music - I don't mean a new tempo for the entire piece, just from bar x. There was a little box you could click on in 8.5 but there's nothing there in x3
3. There is no save button in x3 (in all previous versions of sonar there was one very obviously there). So how to I get one and save a project?
4. There is no undo button in x3 (some remarks as in 4).
5. Anyone out there used 8.5 or earlier versions of sonar? Very simple layout. Each track running horizontally from left to right across the screen. Tracks stacked vertically one on top of one another from top to bottom of the screen. At the far left of every track a small box you could right click on to insert plug-ins. Also, near bottom of the screen, a similar set up for the Master and bus tracks. How do I get that in x3? I don't use a console or understand/need lots of little boxes with meters everywhere (if I want to fiddle with a plug-in I double click on it and adjust settings that way).
Here's how I operate: I insert softsynths/midi tracks one by one, building up my instrumental. Then insert audio tracks one by one to do my vocal recording. Insert a few buses for reverb etc. Mix the whole thing down. Can anyone tell me how to do that/set this up in x3? Been using sonar as my main recording tool for over a decade (and am a professional musician - so earn a living from this). I've been through the intro videos that came with x3 - not much help. And there doesn't seem to be any manual (as there was with sonar 3) that explains the basics (where the save button is, etc.).
There are lots of other things I want explained but the above would get me started. It's 3+ months since I bought x3 and still can't use it. Frustrating.
 
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    Teds_Studio
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/23 00:29:36 (permalink)
    I'm not in the studio but I will answer as much as I can from memory.
     
    kidsinglish productions
    Hi, I upgraded from sonar 8.5 to x3 several months ago but haven't managed to get it working and figure out how to use it.
    Here are my most urgent issues (in order of priority) - I wonder if anyone could help me solve them.
    1. In 8.5 cakewalk TTS and roland groove synths were my main workhorses for midi recording (I do children's music - so perfect set of sounds). However when I insert in x3 these synths don't have any soundbanks/instruments - just a horrid generic synth sound. How can I solve this problem?
     
    Not sure on this one...I've never used roland groove synth but have used TTS and it has always worked fine.  I just click on the default "piano" sound and it brings up a dropdown of sound banks.
     
    2. How do I insert a new midi tempo part way through a piece of music - I don't mean a new tempo for the entire piece, just from bar x. There was a little box you could click on in 8.5 but there's nothing there in x3
     
    Go to "View" and then Tempo map
     
    3. There is no save button in x3 (in all previous versions of sonar there was one very obviously there). So how to I get one and save a project?
     
    Most all of Windows hot keys work in Sonar X3.  CTRL+S is save...CTRL+Z is undo...CTRL+C is copy...CTRL+V is paste...etc.  Not many people seems to need a save button...just get in the habit of using the hot keys.
     
    4. There is no undo button in x3 (some remarks as in 4).
     
    See above.
     
    5. Anyone out there used 8.5 or earlier versions of sonar? Very simple layout. Each track running horizontally from left to right across the screen. Tracks stacked vertically one on top of one another from top to bottom of the screen. At the far left of every track a small box you could right click on to insert plug-ins. Also, near bottom of the screen, a similar set up for the Master and bus tracks. How do I get that in x3? I don't use a console or understand/need lots of little boxes with meters everywhere (if I want to fiddle with a plug-in I double click on it and adjust settings that way).
    Here's how I operate: I insert softsynths/midi tracks one by one, building up my instrumental. Then insert audio tracks one by one to do my vocal recording. Insert a few buses for reverb etc. Mix the whole thing down. Can anyone tell me how to do that/set this up in x3? Been using sonar as my main recording tool for over a decade (and am a professional musician - so earn a living from this). I've been through the intro videos that came with x3 - not much help. And there doesn't seem to be any manual (as there was with sonar 3) that explains the basics (where the save button is, etc.).
    There are lots of other things I want explained but the above would get me started. It's 3+ months since I bought x3 and still can't use it. Frustrating.
     
    It is frustrating at first...but once you get the hang of you will really love it.  Using the "Inspector" window is really helpful for seeing all the parameters that was to the left of the track pane in Pro Audio 9.
     






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    #2
    scook
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/23 00:37:01 (permalink)
    5. Check the Track Control drop down
     
    In the illustration below from http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=3&help=Views.02.html below the area in the red box in the Track view, the drop down labelled "Mix" controls what is visible in the track and bus strips. Set it to "All".
     

    #3
    kidsinglish productions
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/23 00:47:56 (permalink)
    No help, I'm afraid. Soundbanks for Cakewalk TTS (and roland groove synth) don't work.
     
    Is there a save button or undo button? You mean in the days of the computer mouse and touch screen I HAVE TO input some combination of key strokes on a qwerty keyboard. Surely that's a move back 15 years or so. When I'm playing the keyboard (or singing into the mic) I don't have time to stop what I'm doing to type instructions into a qwerty keyboard. At most I have one hand free to hit the mouse (on a save, record, undo) button.
     
    Anyone else out there able to help me?
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    ShellstaX
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/23 00:48:23 (permalink)
    To expand on @Teds re TTS-1 ... presets should be selectable by clicking on the instrument name on the bottom right of each channel. The default piano would be expected.
     
    See at 50 seconds in at:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQzpHPvWSnk
    #5
    scook
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/23 00:54:15 (permalink)
    If you must have buttons for save and undo install Duckbar http://www.sonarmods.com/forum/index.php. Register to download. Although it sound more like mapping the functions to MIDI shortcuts may be a better idea.
    #6
    ShellstaX
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/23 01:12:22 (permalink)
    Regarding GrooveSynth presets ... you should be able to simply click on the LCD display (center top) to choose the presets.
     
    Perhaps there's an issue with your DXi presets install/location/pointer otherwise(?).
    #7
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/23 03:03:23 (permalink)
    kidsinglish productions
    No help, I'm afraid. Soundbanks for Cakewalk TTS (and roland groove synth) don't work.
     
    Is there a save button or undo button? You mean in the days of the computer mouse and touch screen I HAVE TO input some combination of key strokes on a qwerty keyboard. Surely that's a move back 15 years or so. When I'm playing the keyboard (or singing into the mic) I don't have time to stop what I'm doing to type instructions into a qwerty keyboard. At most I have one hand free to hit the mouse (on a save, record, undo) button.
     
    Anyone else out there able to help me?




    I think that there's so much stuff on the screen, that those buttons are a waste of space. Once you get used to using hot keys you'll surely notice it's actually much faster than aiming at the buttons with a mouse.
    I'm using 8.5 still and I never use those buttons, always keys. Actually, I didn't know the buttons are absent in X-series.
    When you're playing a keyboard I can't believe there's any difference whether you reach for the mouse and start aiming or for the qwerty. You don't need to "write instructions", it's one click, one finger on Ctrl and the other on S,C,Z or V ... At least for me it's 2-3 times faster than using the mouse. And the good thing is, those combinations work in most all programs in Windows.
    Also, you may have a VST UI open which covers the buttons, and you have to move it first etc.

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    kidsinglish productions
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/23 03:23:18 (permalink)
    okay, I'll give hot keys a go if you think it's faster.
    Major issue for me is the fact that Cakewalk TTS and Roland Groove synth (the soundbanks) definitely do not work. This is after 3 months fiddling around - and the reason I still use sonar 8.5. I wonder if cakewalk tech support ever view these forums - I can't seem to get them to reply to requests for help.
    #9
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/23 06:46:10 (permalink)
    1.  The Cakewalk folks - senior folks - are very frequent participants in this forum, and even more frequent readers of posted threads.  They have been seen at all sorts of times that most sane folks are sleeping.  They are well-respected for their willingness to invest of themselves as extremely helpful members of the Sonar 'community'.
     
    2.  In addition to the are free included tutorials that you seem to have already worked through, there are bazillions of free videos posted by Cakewalk and all sorts of other people, on top of the product documentation and these forums.  There are also well-written version-specific books on Sonar, as well as videos for purchase, on all aspects of using Sonar.
     
    3.  CTRL+S = Save.  CTRL+C = Copy.  CTRL+V = Paste.  CTRL+Z = Undo.  These are standardized Windows key combinations for accomplishing those functions, and are much faster than using your mouse to do the same.  There are also standard File and Edit menu tabs at the top of the screen, and other Sonar-specific menu buttons, as well.  Available shortcuts are also shown in those menu drop-downs, so if you were to have clicked on File over the past 3 months, you would have seen not only the Save function, but also its shortcut.
     
    Screen real estate was completely redesigned in the 'X' Series of Sonar, and some buttons are either completely removed, or are moved to other pane-specific menu buttons.  The above key combinations have existed in Windows, and most applications that run in Windows, for over 25 years now.  Sonar 8.5.3 had ZILLIONS of shortcut keys to perform functions, and learning all of those was a bit like attending Hogwarts, but Sonar has followed standard Windows all the way through for normal shortcuts, and the black arts of the other 8.5.3 shortcuts were greatly simplified with the X Series.
     
    4.  As far as tempo change goes, you can also click on Project>Insert Tempo Change, to insert one at any point in your project that you wish, and you can have as many of these as you desire.  All of the tempo changes present in a given project are shown in the Tempo Map, where you can both view them and change/insert/remove them as desired.
     
    5.  Nobody else is reporting sound bank issues with TTS-1, so your issues are almost certainly a result of the steps you are following, or some other problems local to your computer.  It would GREATLY help us to help you, if you were to list your computer specs in your forum profile's 'Signature' section, (you can use mine as a model at the bottom of this post. or someone else's if you would rather), and if you also posted a reply with the detailed steps you follow to insert an instance of TTS-1, the associated tracks, etc., we may be able to help you figure out what is going on.
     
    6.  The 'Normal' project template for X3 has the Browser Pane visible, on the far-right side of the screen, and if you click on the 'Synth' button at the top of the Browser Pane, you will see the Synth Rack.  You can add/remove/tweak synths directly from the Synth Rack, and this is covered completely through the product documentation, the videos, the books, and these forums.
     
    7.  An example of the sort of things covered in the documentation is the new 'Comping' feature.  Here is a link to Sonar documentation that covers it:
     
    http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=3&help=Arranging.41.html
     
    I would suggest you read through and learn how to use that, as it will reduce the need for fumbling for your keyboard or mouse to control the transport controls, and is a VERY useful and powerful set of functionality.
     
    I, and likely others in this forum, will look forward to your posted reply with more information about your system and about the detailed steps when inserting soft-synths, such as TTS-1, so that we can help you get past your current problems in getting presets and general sound to 'work'.
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    #10
    kidsinglish productions
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 04:39:54 (permalink)
     
    My computer: Windows 8.1 64bit i7 intel chip 8gig RAM.
    I installed sonar x3 32bit last night and cakewalk TTS and roland groove synth work in the 32bit version. However they do not work in the 64bit version (soundbanks not available so no sounds other than a horrid generic synth sound). I just wanted to confirm with someone else that I am right (99% sure it's a problem with the 64bit version of sonar x3).
     
    It really astonishes me that off all the buttons (x3 has dozens of them - most I have no idea what most of them do) they chose to permanently remove two of most important (and understandable). Lucky they left the record button! Wonder if there are any recording musicians amongst the software developers. Try standing at a microphone and after each take leaning over to a keyboard (in my case the keyboard is at the other end of the studio on the other side of sound baffles to minimise computer noise) - not a prospect I look forward to given the number of takes I do. But I can imagine a software developer who sits in front of a qwerty keyboard all day not realising this. I run extension cables for a screen and mouse, but don't know where I'm going to place a keyboard in my recording booth. Seems a major fault to me. Been using Sonar for over a decade as my only recording software and there's always been a save and undo button.
     
    I'm a writing/recording musician rather than a computer enthusiast - I thought sonar was in the business of supporting musicians rather than computer buffs. It's taken me 3 months to get x3 installed (all the while continuing to use 8.5 on a daily basis) and working - really not satisfactory. Personally I don't get what's so great about x3 (seems very cluttered on the start screen compared to previous versions - I've managed to get rid of most of it however). I have yet to figure out how the prochannel works (I have a very nice set of waves plug-ins that are a breeze to use but am willing to give the prochannel a go if I can figure it out). And there's the much vaunted "skylight" interface - I haven't figured out where or what that is. But I'm sure it's wonderful.
     
    There's a ton of videos out there (my download of x3 came with a bunch). The frustrating thing is I've sat and watched several hours worth - but they all seem to be aimed at someone different to me (either non-musicians who have never used recording software before and just want to drag and drop prerecording audio samples, or the computer buff enthusiasts who want to know the intimate details of the computer code that go to make up sonar). Here's my situation: I write, record and release as a professional musician what I produce in sonar on a weekly basis. I don't have 3 months to go to "sonar" university - but I have been using their software for a decade (and from the results I get, with moderate success, at least people buy my stuff). I need someone to make a manual/video showing a proficient user of previous sonar versions who is musically astute how to record midi and audio and mixdown, quickly and efficiently (like the someone who buys a new Toyota for business reasons). When I dial up my favourite softsynth with a deadline looming on a TV show and it doesn't load or when I can't hit the save button or figure out how to change the midi tempo mid-way through a piece of music, I begin to gnash my teeth! Imagine if they released a Toyota with no steering wheel or pedals - to stop/turn right just type in control alt fn alt S4 on your keyboard you dummy! Yeah I know Google has designed a driverless car, but I think I still have a point.
     
    Enough.
    #11
    kidsinglish productions
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 05:06:06 (permalink)
    Sorry about putting in another post - I wanted to ask Bob Bone a question.
    In point 6 he referred to "Comping" with a link to some sonar documentation (which I have read - I have also watched some sonar videos about this). I don't understand the documentation (or the videos). Here's how I have always operated re. recording vocals. I set up a project with hundreds of audio tracks. I break my song up into little chunks (sometimes just a phrase, sometimes as long as a verse/chorus/bridge). Then for each chunk I do multiple takes, each take (of a chunk) on a different track. So by the end of recording a song I will have hundreds of takes of dozens of chunks of the song, which I go through to select the takes that work well. If that's comping then that's what I do. Or is comping something else? That's my question for Bob - the documentation is very elliptical (and also a mite condescending - I can sing a whole song in a live setting because of the audience but recording is best done in tiny bits and stitched together in my not so humble opinion). Sorry, I don't get it - I imagine the computer buffs at sonar getting very enthusiastic thinking they have discovered something important to tell their users: record vocals in multiple short takes and stitch them together! I've been doing that with Sonar for years! That's what most recording vocalists (with the exception of the likes of Ella Fitzgerald) do! Why is comping such a big deal with sonar - any software that lets you record multiple audio tracks lets you comp presumably?
     
    Apologies, no intention to come across as rude. I simply don't understand what the difference is between sonar x3 and the earliest version of sonar I used back in 2002. I can think of one difference - they used to have a wonderful softsynth called virtual soundcanvas which no longer works (since 8.5 anyway).
     
     
    #12
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 05:12:16 (permalink)
    I don't understand why you can't just go into the file menu and click save, if using the keyboard is such a drag for you. Same for undo, it's in the edit menu. I realize that this is inconvenient for your specific setup but I would suggest that your recording setup and workflow is rather unique. That's not to say it's not a valid and well working setup but it doesn't seem fair to extrapolate from that and say that Sonar is not developed for the professional home-producing musician. I'm one and the lack of a save and undo button has never even registered. I never used them and I've been with Sonar since version 6.

    Moreover, you have already been given a solution! Install duckbar, it's a common and popular mod for people who want more buttons and customization.

    As for your synths not working, that is of course disappointing. I don't really use those two myself but they seem to work fine in my x64 version. I wonder if there is a problem with your installation. Nevertheless, if they are working in your 32 bit version, why not use that? 64 bit is mainly for memory hungry VSTis. Neither of those synths are that, in fact I would say they are designed to be as memory friendly as possible.

    The tempo changes, I don't get your issue. I'm pretty sure it goes the same way it did in 8.5, unless you had some other unique workflow that we don't know about. Just use "insert new tempo" and make sure you set the starting point for the new tempo.

    I agree with Robert Bone, check out the new comping. It should give you something new to really enjoy in Sonar, for your kind of work.
    #13
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 10:45:10 (permalink)
    Your post comes across as extremely condescending.  Many of the Cakewalk staff are indeed recording and performing musicians, by the way.
     
    I think it a bit off-putting to refer to someone's career as a software developer as them being a 'buff'.  I spent 38 years in the IT field myself, and would like to imagine it as more than a hobby.
     
    You can set it up so that Sonar will loop through song sections and record as many takes as you wish, without having to re-position anything, and without having to keep starting and stopping.
     
    http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=3&help=Arranging.45.html
     
    Sonar can also auto-save, by the way.
     
    The above link took less than 20 seconds to locate and paste into this post.  I suggest you spend some time exploring the documentation, videos, and books, to get familiar with X3.
     
    The rest of the planet seems to enjoy the stability and features of Sonar X3, come join us.
     
    Many folks initially were not at all happy with the massive redesign of Sonar, that began with X1.  Many of those same folks came to appreciate the new ways of doing things in the X series, culminating with the current X3 iteration.  Their viewpoints changed as they invested time and effort into learning to change their approach to performing some functions, and learning new functions.
     
    If you would rather stay with 8.5.3 that's fine too, I am simply suggesting that X3 is as good or better, IF you invest in learning it.  It's entirely up to you, either way.
     
    Bob Bone
     
     
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
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    #14
    Anderton
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 13:06:03 (permalink)
    kidsinglish productions
    Is there a save button or undo button? You mean in the days of the computer mouse and touch screen I HAVE TO input some combination of key strokes on a qwerty keyboard. 



    You can bind save, undo, save as, etc. to keyboard keys. The way it works is you assign a controller that alerts Sonar that the next note it receives is a keyboard shortcut (conceptually like a "shift" key). This can be any controller (e.g., a footswitch plugged into the sustain, footpedal, breath controller, etc.) Then you hit a keyboard key. This is incredibly useful as you can not only bind save, undo, etc. but can also control your transport and do track management like insert tracks, all from your keyboard.
     
    I have a Korg nanoKEY2 hooked up that's basically a remote control with a lot of functionality. I also have a wireless keyboard for when I'm away from the computer itself.
     
    There's also auto-save that you can set based on number of edits or time so you don't even have to remember to hit save.
     
    If you really want to go to town, the POK wireless footswitch lets you bind a bunch of footswitches to various functions - hands-free, instant control over all Sonar functions. (I even use it for Word to do bold, italics, etc.). It's not cheap, about $300, but it's an investment that pays for itself.
     
    I wonder if cakewalk tech support ever view these forums - I can't seem to get them to reply to requests for help.

     
    This is not a tech support forum, it is peer-to-peer although Cakewalk reps often do step in to help. However, as you're the only person saying that the TTS-1 and Groovesynth don't work in 64-bit Sonar, they do not have any prior history of fixes (e.g., "this is a known issue, you need to...") Nor do you give sufficient detail for them to figure out what's wrong. I suggest calling them up with your computer on in front of you so they can tell you where to look for issues.
     
     It's taken me 3 months to get x3 installed (all the while continuing to use 8.5 on a daily basis) and working - really not satisfactory.

     
    That kind of mystifies me. I had to do a fresh install on a laptop and it took about an hour, including downloading the registering Addictive Drums. I loaded a project I was working on and everything was good to go.
     
    Why is comping such a big deal with sonar - any software that lets you record multiple audio tracks lets you comp presumably?

     
    Because the way they implement "speed comping" is a big deal. It's incredibly fast once you figure it out. A Porsche and a Yugo will both get you to the grocery store, but the Porsche is a lot faster and more fun to drive.
     
    You are suffering from what I call "Ableton Live Syndrome." I know extremely intelligent people who can fly around a DAW yet they run screaming from the room at the thought of having to navigate Live's interface, which makes no sense to them. Yet I know others to whom Ableton Live is super-intuitive and they find conventional DAWs cumbersome - because they use Ableton more as a big virtual instrument than a big virtual studio. Also, you have to get used to "the Ableton way" of doing things. Live was one of the first programs to totally embrace drag-and-drop for everything. People would go nuts looking at menus trying in vain to find commands to do things that simply required a drag and drop. It took me a while to wrap my head around Live, but I did and it's what I use for live performance (I guess the program name is a hint, LOL). Sonar is what I use for the studio...right tool for the right job and all that.
     
    Please see my post in your other thread about the two questions you need to ask.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #15
    John
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 14:34:21 (permalink)
    kidsinglish productions
    No help, I'm afraid. Soundbanks for Cakewalk TTS (and roland groove synth) don't work.
     
    Is there a save button or undo button? You mean in the days of the computer mouse and touch screen I HAVE TO input some combination of key strokes on a qwerty keyboard. Surely that's a move back 15 years or so. When I'm playing the keyboard (or singing into the mic) I don't have time to stop what I'm doing to type instructions into a qwerty keyboard. At most I have one hand free to hit the mouse (on a save, record, undo) button.
     
    Anyone else out there able to help me?


    Interesting. TTS-1 is the same in X3 as it was in 8.5. If you used it before you should be able to use it now. 
     
    There was a save button in 8.5 true enough but I never used it. I wanted a save as button that was never available. I suggest you use save as and not save. This will allow you to go back to an older project if you need to.
     
    I'm not as sympathetic to these kinds of posts as some are.  Its still Sonar and once you figure it out you will see not as much as you think has changed. 

    Best
    John
    #16
    gbar
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 15:13:45 (permalink)
    Because I like kicking dead horses, none of those Directx plugin synths work properly if the sample rate is 96K (at least not for me).  At 44.1, they sound fine, but at 96K, I'd rather listen to a chainsaw.
    #17
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 16:39:51 (permalink)
    Edited - never mind - I REMAIN an idiot (was the OP from his other thread - I thought another poster was having TTS-1 troubles).
     
    Bob Bone

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #18
    scook
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 16:51:59 (permalink)
    gbar
    Because I like kicking dead horses, none of those Directx plugin synths work properly if the sample rate is 96K (at least not for me).  At 44.1, they sound fine, but at 96K, I'd rather listen to a chainsaw.


    To get TTS-1 to work at high sample rates the "Light Load Mode" must be enabled. The setting is found in the TTS-1 UI by:
    Clicking the System button
    Clicking the Option button on the System Settings dialog
    Opening the Options tab in the Options dialog
     
    Unfortunately the setting is not stored so it must be enabled with each session.
    #19
    kidsinglish productions
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 21:51:22 (permalink)
    Gee, people get their feathers easily ruffled - honestly no intention to condescend to anyone. I got a couple of good tips of the forums so much appreciated (how to alter the midi tempo mid way through a piece of music being one!).
     
    Spent the morning working in x3 (finally, after 3 months of getting it up and running!) - did some voiceover work, with an midi incidental instrumental. Then a jingle with vocals and midi instrumental.
     
    My impression: I'm blown away. Very fast to work in. And the audio quality of the results is out of this world!
     
    It's taken a long time to get there. But is it worth it? Yes.
     
    I will not be using sonar 8.5 again.
     
    It is a bit of a pain having to reach for a qwerty keyboard to save when I'm standing at the mic (closest I can get the keyboard is a metre and a half from the mic) - it was easier with a mouse and a save button.
     
    Not many of my older 32bit softsynths work in in x3 64bit - including Cakewalk TTS or Roland Groove Synth. But as I'm running x3 32bit (and my 32bit synths work in it) it's not a problem.
     
    Wonder if there's any advantage working in 64bit. Anyone know what the difference is (audio quality-wise especially)?
     
    I think the sonar/cakewalk folk could probably provide more tech support for folk like me who struggle to get the software up and running, and provide more resources targeting my needs - the software continues to improve but the tech support and resources continue to decline in quality my opinion. I figure the older generation of users get passed over in favour of a younger more tech savvy bunch. Pity, because I run a music business myself and reckon the ultimate success or failure of a company depend on how you treat your loyal/repeat customers rather than the new ones - given the amount of money I've spent on cakewalk hardware and software over the years I rate myself quite high in that regard. Note: this does not mean I am uncritical or slavishly complimentary - I prefer to speak my mind.
    #20
    ShellstaX
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 21:58:01 (permalink)
    Most of my 32bit plugins work in 64bit mode just fine.
     
    Are they presented? Do you have them on your Scan Path? (Apologies if plain obvious).
    #21
    Splat
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 22:04:35 (permalink)
    I have to be dragged kicking and screaming if I am going to use 32 bit plugins. 64 bit plugins make better use of your systems memory, are more reliable and take up fewer resources. 32 bit plugins also require extra resources for virtualization with 64 bit Sonar, and you should use 64 bit Sonar BTW. Get rid of as many 32 plugins as you can.
     
    I strongly recommend this tutorial, it covers pretty much everything:
    http://www.groove3.com/str/SONAR-X3-Explained.html
     

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #22
    ShellstaX
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/24 22:12:37 (permalink)
    Further 64bit advantages / discussion below:
    - Addressable memory
    - Sample rates
    (+ that's the future for the technology for general computing needs).
     
    Thread:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/64-bit-can-be-done-but-to-what-advantage-m2770281.aspx
     
    Article:
    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov10/articles/64-bit.htm
     
    #23
    Anderton
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/25 01:33:42 (permalink)
    kidsinglish productions
    It is a bit of a pain having to reach for a qwerty keyboard to save when I'm standing at the mic (closest I can get the keyboard is a metre and a half from the mic) - it was easier with a mouse and a save button.

     
    Seriously, check out the POK. It will change your life 
     
    Wonder if there's any advantage working in 64bit. Anyone know what the difference is (audio quality-wise especially)?

     
    64-bit doesn't affect audio quality, but the ability to address lots of memory is really great. I have 32GB in my computer and loading instruments with huge sample libraries is painless.
     
    I think the sonar/cakewalk folk could probably provide more tech support for folk like me who struggle to get the software up and running, and provide more resources targeting my needs - the software continues to improve but the tech support and resources continue to decline in quality my opinion. I figure the older generation of users get passed over in favour of a younger more tech savvy bunch.



    In what way did you interact with Cakewalk tech support? Did you call, email, work through a retailer, depend on the online help, or...?
     
    I think a good rule of thumb for support is if you're having problems with a system, setup, installation, etc. that's when you need to contact Cakewalk directly so they can walk through your setup. For getting started with the software, there are plenty of tutorials but you have to know how to find them. For example, there's a tutorial I did called Mixing in the ProChannel with Sonar X3 Producer. It has a downloadable project that takes you through how to make tracks sound better and fit in with each other using step-by-step tutorials. I took the same approach as when I wrote two of Adobe's "Classroom on a Book" projects except the Sonar one, you get for free 
     
    Also remember that Cakewalk doesn't charge for support...none of this "$99 per incident" stuff. As a result there's a tradeoff: You can charge people more for the product and give better support because you can hire more people, you can charge per incident but people really like that support is free, or you can keep it free and require people to do more research on their own. Buying third party materials is a good compromise. The people who need the support pay for it, while the people who don't get a more affordable product.
     
     

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #24
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/25 04:51:42 (permalink)
    I agree that 64 bit is the future, because of the memory thing. But since the OP seems content to depend on GrooveSynth and TTS1, two of the LEAST memory hungry synths in Sonar, there is really no reason to work in 64 bit. There is no difference in sound quality whatsoever. I suspect there is a problem with his installation because those synths are working fine in 64 bit for everyone else. But if he ever were to switch away from them to memory hungry plugs he can always switch to 64 bit Sonar. Not to mention this may be after having installed X4, X5 or X6 which may solve the problem.

    I still don't get why it took three months to get up and running. I'm sure people here could have given you a hand before. What exactly was the issue?
    #25
    KPerry
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/25 05:17:05 (permalink)
    Craig...your link is wrong :-)
    #26
    kidsinglish productions
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/25 05:47:10 (permalink)
    Why did x3 take me 3 months to get up and running? I had problems with many things.
    Wouldn't/couldn't download from the website. Couldn't extract files. Didn't know what to do with the extracted files. Couldn't get registration/serial codes. Wouldn't accept these codes. Same problem with each and every bundled software (dimension pro, rapture and melodyne). And here's the rub with all of the above: there are no instructions about how to do any of this stuff - a lot of the instructions are in the downloaded files (but if you can't download them you can't access the instructions). When I finally did get the files downloaded and extracted, I opened the "read me first" file I saw amongst the plethora of files that I had downloaded. Great, I thought, this will explain everything. But the instructions to install began with something like: double click on the sonar.exe file (whatever the file was I did not have it amongst my downloaded files). After several weeks of double-clicking on files (there's only so much of this stuff you can take in one session without losing your sanity), eventually the computer started to install sonar. At the end of this process my computer experienced the blue screen of death. After two months of fiddling around, I simply bought a new computer with windows 8.1 (old one runs windows 7 and sonar 8.5 very well - amd quad core and 8 gig ram). I've spent the past month going through all of the above problems (including the blue screen of death - had to reinstall windows 8.1 and start from scratch) on the new computer. Apart from crashing the whole computer, the worst problems were sonar x3 (when I finally got it installed) not recognising my focusrite scarlett 2i2 audio interface, and struggling to figure out how to install my 3rd party plug-ins (a variety of older 32bit softsynths and a bunch of Waves plug-ins).
     
    I tried emailing tech support a few times - but you don't here back from them for a while and by the time you do they seem to be reading from a manual (to, say, double-click on an .exe file you already can't locate) - by that time you're already dealing with a new set of issues. They don't respond past a first email (if you reply saying they haven't solved an issue, or that you need more help).
     
    I've tried to phone them - I'm in Australia - but have never managed to get through on the numbers they give on their website.
     
    Here's my honest opinion - and really I am not trying to be rude or offensive so I will start by saying that having worked with sonar x3 (32bit) for one day, I think it's a stunning bit of software. I've managed to get more work done (I make a kids tv show and need to get through a lot of audio and midi recording on a daily basis) in one day than I would sometimes take a week to do. BUT (and it's a huge but)... it can be (from my personal experience) an awful nightmare to install and get running. I can't help but wonder if Cubase or Logic are any easier to install/set up (or if they provide better tech support to get it done). I've been using sonar so long I probably won't change, but if someone was new to recording software, I'd suggest they try out the others. The past 3 months have not been pleasant or easy.
     
    I use video editing and animation software extensively also - and have never experienced the installation/set-up issues I have with sonar (okay, I admit the earlier versions of Adobe Premiere and Encore were horribly buggy and crash prone, but in recent years they have ironed things out and have managed to maintain a continuity in how the software works so you don't need to go to "Adobe university" or completely retrain yourself from scratch to install/set-up/use the latest version).
     
    I would like to use the 64bit version of sonar x3 - but it doesn't run a bunch of my 32-bit plug-ins (to those who have managed to get Cakewalk TTS and Roland Groove synth working in 64bit x3, tell me how, cause I can't, although they work in 32bit x3!).
     
    Happy recording everyone. I only appear on these forums every 5 years or so (everyone breathes a sigh of relief) and have never found them much help - I can't understand a lot of what people say in reply to my questions/posts (too technical) and what I can understand makes me feel I've offended people (for not being unreservedly complimentary about sonar? - but aren't these forums partly to iron out problems people are having?)
    #27
    KPerry
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/25 06:04:55 (permalink)
    TTS and GrooveSynth won't work in 64 bit SONAR - only 32 bit VST plug-ins can be bridged to run in 64 bit SONAR, and both those plug-ins are DirectX (an oversight that there isn't a bridge for DX plug-ins in my opinion - I have a bunch that will likely never be updated (eg. Sony/SoundForge ones)).
     
    That said, 32 bit SONAR runs very well under 64 bit Windows so I'd stick with that if you need access to 32 bit plug-ins: it's less stressful and more reliable.  And SONAR does actually get access to more memory than under 32 bit Windows (4GB rather than the usual 2).
    #28
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/25 06:23:02 (permalink)
    TTS-1 and Groovesynth both work fine in my x64 X3e.

    I'm sorry you have had so many installation troubles. If something like that happens again, do ask questions here. People can help. As for the tone of your posts, I think you would get more positive replies if you didn't start out by proclaiming that the people at Cakewalk don't know what they're doing and that only the "computer buffs" (not a great way to name the people you're requesting help from) must understand it. There are many professionals (and knowledgeable amateurs) on here who are trying to give advice in their free time. If you keep that in mind, you'll be fine.
    #29
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Help required with x3 2014/07/25 07:33:20 (permalink)
    KPerry
    TTS and GrooveSynth won't work in 64 bit SONAR - only 32 bit VST plug-ins can be bridged to run in 64 bit SONAR, and both those plug-ins are DirectX (an oversight that there isn't a bridge for DX plug-ins in my opinion - I have a bunch that will likely never be updated (eg. Sony/SoundForge ones)).
     
    That said, 32 bit SONAR runs very well under 64 bit Windows so I'd stick with that if you need access to 32 bit plug-ins: it's less stressful and more reliable.  And SONAR does actually get access to more memory than under 32 bit Windows (4GB rather than the usual 2).


    Hi - Some time ago, Cakewalk actually DID release a 64-bit DXi version of TTS-1 and GrooveSynth.
     
    To use the 64-bit versions of these 2 synths, you MUST pick up the 64-bit versions by running the 64-bit Sonar installer, and making sure you select them during the 64-bit install.  Please note that they might be already checked by default by the install script the installer follows.
     
    If you have already run the 64-bit Sonar install but had not selected TTS-1 and/or GrooveSynth during that install, you can remove the checks for everything else except them, and then they will be the only thing this installation run will actually install.  (in other words you are stripping out everything else from the install run except those synths, since everything else was installed already from your prior install).
     
    By installation default, the paths for these two 64-bit DXi Sonar synths are:
     
    C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared DXi\TTS-1
    C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared DXi\Groove Player
     
    I hope the above addresses your issues with TTS-1 and/or GrooveSynth.
     
    Bob Bone
     
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #30
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