Helpful ReplyHelp with building a new PC

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michael_S
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2014/07/09 22:46:05 (permalink)

Help with building a new PC

Hello everybody,
        I will admit I'm not a cakewalk user.  I am a computer tech for a luggage company, and I had a friend approach me today asking me about a computer he wants to use for production.  I know computers, but I dont know this software.  He wants to use x3 producer.  He currently uses Sonar Studio 7.  I need to know, based on what you guys have encountered, what he needs to be able to max out this program.  I want to make sure he can do whatever he wants without worrying about topping it out.  With what he used before it died he said when he did heavy mixing, about 4 minuets into it it would freeze causing him to have to start over.  I want to avoid that being an issue.
 
Does he need more then a quad core i7?  I was thinking the e-series 6 core, but that is twice as much so if it isn't needed i won't do that.  Also will more then 16gb of ram be needed?  I already have plans for an ssd drive, but would two be needed?
 
Thanks for any advice guys!
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Mesh
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/10 09:43:09 (permalink)
To bump this thread until a Pro builder chimes in, I'll add my 2 cents worth (or less).....
 
A quad core i7 with 16GB of ram can handle a ton of plugins with multiple soft synths running at the same time.As RAM is fairly cheap, I'd max it out as much as he can afford. I believe Sonar's engine can access 8 cores (someone correct me if I'm wrong), but an i7 quad core should be more than enough for his needs.
 
If he's going to be pulling a massive amount of disk streaming polyphony (around 500+ voices), then an SSD (for samples) will be extremely useful and quick. If he's only going to use 1/2 of that or less, then a conventional HDD would work well. Of course if budget permits, a couple of 250GB SSD will be quieter and much faster than a 500GB HDD.   
 
It's a good practice to have 1 SSD drive for the OS and all software, a 2nd large drive for samples (depending on budget and size of sample content......consider 2 SSD drives), and a 3rd drive for all the Sonar audio projects (conventional HDD at 7200RPM should work fine). Also, he'll need some sort of external backup system.....I prefer to have a 3TB external drive rather than an online backup system, but someone else might chime in on the benefits of online backup.
 

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jcschild
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/10 10:05:36 (permalink)
tell your friend he needs to seek advice from those who know audio systems.
building for audio is NOT slapping a gaming box together.. or a server even. even if I gave you a complete list of parts
it goes way beyond that. (bios setting, windows tweaks etc)

Scott
ADK
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michael_S
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/10 15:00:13 (permalink)
So I've not come to right place to ask advice from those who know audio systems?  nice way to discredit yourself. :/ 



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Mesh
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/10 15:36:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chefmike8888 2014/07/27 06:51:20
michael_S
So I've not come to right place to ask advice from those who know audio systems?  nice way to discredit yourself. :/ 







This is the right place to get "general" advice, but Scott at ADK & Jim Roseberry at Studiocat are the Pro DAW specialists here.
 
What you can do is put a list of hardware you're planning on using and other Sonar users will chime in with suggestions. Of course, if you wish to have a fine tuned Pro Audio DAW, then contacting one of those two would be your best bet.  
 
BTW, I'm that amateur Sonar hobbiest who just "slapped a gaming box" together , after getting advice from fellow Sonar users here. I do have to say that my machine has worked out extremely well for my DAW and gaming needs.
 

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spacealf
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/10 16:37:01 (permalink)
Depends on if he is using the computer for recording or just editing using the software (Sonar).
Quiet fans, no noise from the computer unless he uses it in a separate room from recording music.
Of course the fastest computer will be the best, but a quiet one that makes in the end - no noise (or very little noise).
Cooling (I only use a normal computer for what I do) may be something that needs to be looked at also.
Not a stock perhaps fan for cooling the CPU, but in all a well-ventilated computer that is quiet.
Normal graphics card probably more than fast enough, Nvidia, AMD, but fast enough, but graphics like a gaming computer really not needed for Sonar. If plugging in an audio/interface, then depending on what kind it is (probably USB 2.0 and probably USB 3.0 although not needed but compatible for like  USB2 interface), or Firewall (not used nearly anymore) or Thunderbolt (not needed for audio) unless he is doing graphics or something else like that with it, then fast graphics card and a 64-bit computer.
 
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spacealf
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/10 16:46:56 (permalink)
An audio computer does not demand much, but wi-fi usually interferes if even hooked up for say an Internet connection.
If it can pass the latency monitor type testing then that will be the best that can be done until a faster processor or better technology comes out.
 
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
 
There is suppose to be a better program but I don't think it is free and I think it is called "LatencyMon"
but have not used it.
http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
 
If it hangs up because of computer calls (Deferred Procedure Calls), then it something in the computer that needs to be dealt with, besides tweaking Windows for running audio, which usually just means, taking off all the automatic stuff Microsoft puts on using it as a general purpose computer, and dealing with that kind of tweaking in the computer.
 
Ah besides what the other posters mentioned, that is all I can think of at the moment.
 
And do not mind the forum here, it just is not working quite correctly lately.
We still use it though.
 
 
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DRanck
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/15 20:02:08 (permalink)
On the SSDs, they are awesome. I decided on a 500GB SSD for the OS and programs but went with a WD Black 2TB drive for samples and second WD 2TB Black for audio files. I know it would scream loading samples from the SSD, but I had to draw my budget line somewhere. I have over 500 GB of samples (and of course that is expanding ). I would have had to buy a 1TB SSD. Just not in the budget. Find out what samples he has and what he plans on purchasing. Make sure the sample drive is oversized.
 
Consider Windows 8.1 and a touchscreen. Not needed but is convenient for me. Sonar X3 works well with a touch screen for many things. 
 
Audio interface lag and audio clicks and pops are the bane of Windows DAWs. OS tweaks can really help and there are some guides on the interwebs that provide assistance in making Windows heel. One of the biggest things is to disable AV while working with audio. Some will say to not even install AV but I've posted about this before. That's a bad idea. Just disable it when you're working.
 
You're a good friend to help him with this.

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Cactus Music
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/15 20:45:20 (permalink)
 forget it
post edited by Cactus Music - 2014/07/16 09:46:05

Johnny V  
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Mesh
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/16 10:47:02 (permalink)
Cactus Music
 forget it


Cactus, I read the original message you posted and I agree with you. It was really unnecessary.....

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noldar12
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/20 23:10:14 (permalink)
Although perhaps it could have been phrased a bit more "polite", Scott is correct.  I remember back in the day trying to do audio with a coupld of Dell generic boxes.  I had nothing but trouble, a key program crashing, etc.  Some parts simply don't play nice with others, and the needs for audio are very different than the needs for gaming.  That isn't to say it can't be done, but it is less straight forward than one might think.
 
As far as what your friend needs, more information would be helpful.  What he wishes to accomplish will largely dictate what would work best for him.  Particularly if he uses lots of VST's with heavy disk streaming, coupled with lots of effects, or something like MIR Pro, than as powerful a machine as you can put together would be wise.  For heavy VSL use somethin like a 4930k, 32 gigs of ram, and most samples placed on SSD's would be helpful. 
 
What sort of soundcard will he be using?  How many parts does he wish to record at once?  Is he recording just himself one part at a time, or is he recording an entire group?  Or, is he doing everything ITB?  If ITB, or only recording himself, a soundcard with fewer inputs will be enough, while if he is recording an entire band, a more sophisticated card will be helpful.  Also solid drivers, and the ability to track at low latency will help.  As far as soundcards go, RME is as good as it gets, unless one spends much more, and their drivers are a known good thing.  Having a great computer coupled with a poor consumer grade type of soundcard rather defeats the purpose.
 
What sort of speakers is he mixing on?  Is the room he is working in treated or untreated?  What are the dimensions of the room?
 
It might be that spending a bit less on the computer, and budgeting a bit of money for other areas might be helpful.

Jim
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jcschild
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/21 15:54:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chefmike8888 2014/07/27 06:52:44
::sigh::::
more polite perhaps,  you know I help dyi'ers all the time. but when some guy comes in here building a system for some other guy who asked him and he is not an audio guy.. sorry not helping.. I know the potential for the outcome. when you have guys who build boxes but not for audio/video they are already set in their ways.
just like when I hire a builder
I would much rather hire someone who never built before so I don't have to "break them" of their bad habits and wrong thinking. (which may have worked fine elsewhere)
 

Scott
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DW_Mike
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/27 07:04:39 (permalink)
When I built my DAW both Scott and Jim were extremely helpful.
They answered questions about my component's and gave tips on how to go about setting everything up to play nicely.
PC is rock solid and has had zero issues since the first time I fired it up.
 
So yeah, this is a great place to come for advice.
And I strongly agree with Scott's post above.
 
Mike 

Sonar X3 ~ Scarlett 18i6 ~ Home Build DAW  
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DW_Mike
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Re: Help with building a new PC 2014/07/27 07:18:11 (permalink)
michael_S
 
Does he need more then a quad core i7?  I was thinking the e-series 6 core, but that is twice as much so if it isn't needed i won't do that.  Also will more then 16gb of ram be needed?  I already have plans for an ssd drive, but would two be needed?
 

A quad core i7 is plenty to run Sonar X3 as is 16gb of RAM.
For audio work most perfer 3 HD's. One for OS and Programs, one for samples and sound banks and one for storage (ie: the projects you're recording and working on).
 
As far as SSD's, when I was building I was advised that a PC is only as good as it's weakest part. So using a ssd for the OS and programs may make them open quicker the information on the other spinning drives will only move as fast as those drives will allow.
So I decided to use 2 ssd's and a 7200RPM spinning drive for storage.
 
Hope some of this helped a little.
 
Mike 

Sonar X3 ~ Scarlett 18i6 ~ Home Build DAW  
GA-Z77X-UD5H
Intel i7 3770k 4.2GHz
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