Beagle
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Help with cable components and building a custom cable
I have purchased some equipment which has the TIP and RING reversed on the output jacks. Repairing the equipment is not feasible, so i thought I'd build a custom cable which swaps the Tip and Ring on one end. My plan is to build (2) 6' cables with 1/4" TRS on one end and XLR connectors OR 1/4" TRS on the other end. i'd like to use decent cable but not something super expensive - maybe something like mogami, and I've heard that nuetrik (sp?) connectors are good.
1) where can I purchase cable components like that?
2) what kind of solder should I use?
3) any tips on building these cables? (I've not used a soldering iron in several years!)
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rumleymusic
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 12:01:45
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1) Markertek.com
2) Kester Solder
3) Make sure the chuck is on before you start soldering the cable (can't tell you how many times i forget to do that)
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krizrox
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 12:01:59
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Markertek has everything you need to make cables. Check them out if you can't find parts locally (Ft Worth - I'd guess you must have a decent electronics parts store somewhere in the area, no?). Some of the better music stores will carry parts. I think even Guitar Center sells cable/parts.
Typical solder is tin/lead (60/40 or something like that). Anything will work. Radio Shack sells that stuff along with soldering irons and tools and such.
Neutrik connectors are good. So is Switchcraft.
Tips on building cables/soldering? This gets tricky because you need specific tools for even simple jobs. A good solder connection requires practice and patience. One of the best tools I ever bought was a little bench vice which is like a third hand. It's heavy and it will hold the part in place so you can use your hands to hold the iron and solder.
Why not just buy a custm cable (I thin Markertek will make them for you). Or an off-the-shelf cable and simple rework one end?
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
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lazarous
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 12:05:17
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ORIGINAL: Beagle
I have purchased some equipment which has the TIP and RING reversed on the output jacks. Repairing the equipment is not feasible, so i thought I'd build a custom cable which swaps the Tip and Ring on one end. My plan is to build (2) 6' cables with 1/4" TRS on one end and XLR connectors OR 1/4" TRS on the other end. i'd like to use decent cable but not something super expensive - maybe something like mogami, and I've heard that nuetrik (sp?) connectors are good.
1) where can I purchase cable components like that?
2) what kind of solder should I use?
3) any tips on building these cables? (I've not used a soldering iron in several years!)
How soon do you need it, Beagle? I'm about to place a Parts Express order, and could build the cables for you, if you'd like. You cover parts/shipping. I'll do the labor for free. Corey
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Beagle
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 12:10:23
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Thanks for the tips, Daniel!
Larry - There might be a decent electronics store around here somewhere, Radio Shack is the only thing I know of close to me. I'll have to search. We do have a GC nearby, but I've not seen any cable components, just cables - I'll have to look and ask and see if they have components.
I have a couple of soldering irons and tools from my college days, I just haven't used them in several years!
I didn't think about buying a custom cable - that's a possibility. I did think about reworking one end, but haven't looked further into it. most of the cables I have are molded ends, so opening them would destroy the molded end on the connector - I'd probably have to just replace the connector instead of rewiring it, wouldn't I? or buy a cable which DOESN'T have molded ends and then maybe I could rewire it instead of building a complete new cable. good suggestions!
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Beagle
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 12:12:57
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ORIGINAL: lazarous
ORIGINAL: Beagle
I have purchased some equipment which has the TIP and RING reversed on the output jacks. Repairing the equipment is not feasible, so i thought I'd build a custom cable which swaps the Tip and Ring on one end. My plan is to build (2) 6' cables with 1/4" TRS on one end and XLR connectors OR 1/4" TRS on the other end. i'd like to use decent cable but not something super expensive - maybe something like mogami, and I've heard that nuetrik (sp?) connectors are good.
1) where can I purchase cable components like that?
2) what kind of solder should I use?
3) any tips on building these cables? (I've not used a soldering iron in several years!)
How soon do you need it, Beagle? I'm about to place a Parts Express order, and could build the cables for you, if you'd like.
You cover parts/shipping. I'll do the labor for free.
Corey
Wow! Very generous of you, Corey! I think, however, I'm just going to try my hand at replacing one end of my existing cables. thanks so much for the offer!
post edited by Beagle - 2008/06/25 13:09:00
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joshhunsaker
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 12:28:29
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I would go with silver solder...not too expensive to get up to about 80% purity.
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krizrox
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 12:29:02
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ORIGINAL: Beagle
Thanks for the tips, Daniel!
Larry - There might be a decent electronics store around here somewhere, Radio Shack is the only thing I know of close to me. I'll have to search. We do have a GC nearby, but I've not seen any cable components, just cables - I'll have to look and ask and see if they have components.
I have a couple of soldering irons and tools from my college days, I just haven't used them in several years!
I didn't think about buying a custom cable - that's a possibility. I did think about reworking one end, but haven't looked further into it. most of the cables I have are molded ends, so opening them would destroy the molded end on the connector - I'd probably have to just replace the connector instead of rewiring it, wouldn't I? or buy a cable which DOESN'T have molded ends and then maybe I could rewire it instead of building a complete new cable. good suggestions!
Well, you've got options now. You'll figure it out. If you have all the tools there anyway it seems to be a simple matter to buy a connector from Radio Shack and just rework an existing cable. Do you have an ohm meter? Another tool worth having but if you go out and buy all this stuff you might be better just buying a custom cable or taking lazarous up on his offer.
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
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Beagle
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 12:34:04
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Oh yeah! I've got a meter! that's an indispensible tool! thanks guys! I'll look at my options!
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ohhey
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 13:29:27
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ORIGINAL: Beagle
I have purchased some equipment which has the TIP and RING reversed on the output jacks. Repairing the equipment is not feasible, so i thought I'd build a custom cable which swaps the Tip and Ring on one end. My plan is to build (2) 6' cables with 1/4" TRS on one end and XLR connectors OR 1/4" TRS on the other end. i'd like to use decent cable but not something super expensive - maybe something like mogami, and I've heard that nuetrik (sp?) connectors are good.
1) where can I purchase cable components like that?
2) what kind of solder should I use?
3) any tips on building these cables? (I've not used a soldering iron in several years!)
Come up with a method to apply insolation. For example on 1/4" you may want to do some heat shrink over the solder points. Also use connectors that are easy to work with and have a good strain relief system that works and doesn't mess the cable up too bad. I like the Neutrik system the best. When you start building them come up with a complete method and document it in graphic detial. Everything you lean to make things do better from the jig to hold the parts in place to how long to hold to soldering iron on and apply the solder. That way if your business takes off and you have to hire folks to do it, you can train them EXACTLY the way you want it done. Even docuement the cost of the tools and supplies and estimate how long they will last.
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lazarous
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 13:46:19
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ORIGINAL: krizrox
If you have all the tools there anyway it seems to be a simple matter to buy a connector from Radio Shack and just rework an existing cable. Do you have an ohm meter? Another tool worth having but if you go out and buy all this stuff you might be better just buying a custom cable or taking lazarous up on his offer. Hey, Larry... have you been in a Radio Shack recently? I headed over to one that's open later than my regular source for cable ends, and they just don't HAVE any decent connectors any more. Everything was just, well... JUNK. I picked up a set of RCA ends and a pair of 1/4" TS male ends for a quick little project. Ended up having to heat them up so HOT just to get solder to stick that the 1/4 ends ended up shorting out on the inside. Yikes! Used to be a decent alternative... now I just order Neutrik connectors from Parts Express and wait, or do my best to get to my regular local supplier during business hours. Corey
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Beagle
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 14:14:56
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Completely agree with Corey about RS....and I used to work for Tandy (corporate offices of RS!). they used to be a good supplier for stuff like that, but now they just want to sell you a Cell phone! frank - thanks that's a good tip about the insulation....but what's up with the hiring employees and stuff????  are you needing a job or something??? I'm just building 2 cross-over cables....not planning on production!
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krizrox
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 15:48:52
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ORIGINAL: lazarous
ORIGINAL: krizrox
If you have all the tools there anyway it seems to be a simple matter to buy a connector from Radio Shack and just rework an existing cable. Do you have an ohm meter? Another tool worth having but if you go out and buy all this stuff you might be better just buying a custom cable or taking lazarous up on his offer.
Hey, Larry... have you been in a Radio Shack recently? I headed over to one that's open later than my regular source for cable ends, and they just don't HAVE any decent connectors any more. Everything was just, well... JUNK. I picked up a set of RCA ends and a pair of 1/4" TS male ends for a quick little project. Ended up having to heat them up so HOT just to get solder to stick that the 1/4 ends ended up shorting out on the inside. Yikes!
Used to be a decent alternative... now I just order Neutrik connectors from Parts Express and wait, or do my best to get to my regular local supplier during business hours.
Corey
Ha! You're right. Forget I mentioned Radio Shack. Frankly, I'm amazed they're even still in business. The one here by me is a pale shadow of itself from 10-20 years ago.
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
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ohhey
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 16:00:14
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Beagle
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 16:08:35
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LOL! yeah but I'd probably still get sued because of the name monster in the title! I know! I'll call it Munster cable and have Fred Gwynn as the spokeperson. Oh - wait - he's dead isn't he? well.....maybe I'll STILL use him!!!!
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newfuturevintage
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 16:49:17
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hi Beagle,
out of curiosity, what's the piece of gear you picked up with the + and - leads swapped?
My inner child is an angry drunk.
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Beagle
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 16:58:25
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well....I didn't say in the thread because I fully expect it will cause a big OT discussion....but since I've got the info I needed from the thread I guess I can go ahead and divulge the secret and let the flame party begin! Mackie CR-1604 (the oldest 1604 model, not the VLZ models). I knew when I hooked it up that something didn't sound quite right - the main outs sounded different from the ALT3/4 outs even tho I had the same signals routing to each. so I started looking on the net for what might be up. here's my reference: http://www.silentway.com/tips/equip/1604.html Ok - let the flaming begin!
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R!Soc
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 17:45:46
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Well... after all these years!!!
I guess since I've never used the alt outs so I've never really compared the main outs to anything else.
Good to know! (rummages around to find soldering gun...)
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Beagle
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 17:50:52
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there's also a small thread on that website where a couple of guys are talking about it and state that they have contacted Mackie and found that it's pretty much impossible to change from inside the box....thus my desire to build a cross-over cable.
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 20:03:04
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here's a tip: Years ago I mounted a 1/4" jack and XLR Jacks in small pieces of sheet brass (you can use anything really). I fix the sheet metal with the jacks in a small vice. Then I plug my new cable end into the *jack-jig*. It makes it much easier to do hi quality work. here's an opinion: Years ago I was taught not to go crazy with shrink wrap and such. The premise is a good solder joint is very strong and lasts a long time, but when it fails it's going to be at an inopportune moment. When it's time to do a field repair you will be frustrated and waste time with all the shrink wrap. Over the years I have found this *philosophy* to be useful. Oh, and always insist on Switchcraft connectors. :-) best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2008/06/25 20:25:39
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Beagle
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 22:11:58
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Beagle
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/25 22:44:55
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Here it is...straight from the horse's mouth: 
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jimusic
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/26 01:52:16
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Beagle = if it's not too late, check out 'REDCO AUDIO' - on line. I just bought a bunch of stuff including a Neutrik patch bay, a pile of connectors, and wire by the foot, with 7 or 8 different colors to choose from at any length you want @ .15 a foot, and it's already 'tinned'. With a 24 channel patch bay, pre-tinned wire will save me lots of time, solder, and unnecessary grief. Very professional email & phone communication. Phoned me the next day to confirm my order - fast shipping, mulit component order - no mistakes, excellent prices. Just Google 'Redco Audio' based out of Stratford, CT., or click on the link below. I will look there first now, before even considering anywhere else. Stay away from cheap crap like radio shack, now called 'the source'. Besides, you'll probably pay less for better stuff anyway, because they don't have tons of staff, branches and countless advertisement dollars they need to pump out of your pocket. Check it out - lots of good stuff. Jim http://www.redco.com/
post edited by jimusic - 2008/06/26 02:15:57
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Beagle
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/26 08:41:42
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Thanks, Jim! I actually had already had someone else on another forum recommend them as well. Yeah, I don't buy anything from RS anymore unless I just have no choice.
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jimusic
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/27 00:57:55
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Your welcome, Beagle!
Yeah I only buy from RS also, if no other choices.
I was really impressed with Redco Audio. Specifically the home page where it says,
'You want connectors - we got 'em', with the picture of them all there.
I know if I need connectors where to look right away.
Jim
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Shadow of The Wind
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/27 10:43:24
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Get Neutrik connectors. Those are precisely crafted. You won't need additional insolation. Those are just perfect. Google for assembly instructions. I bought cheap connectors and was immediately frustrated... The angled connectors are pretty neat.
Wilko
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Beagle
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/27 10:55:55
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Thanks, Wilko! yeah, I was considering changing to some angled ones, especially on the back of my monitors.
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/27 11:04:37
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Neutrik sucks!
Mr Beagle, you stated you were an EE in military work? I suggest you pull apart a pair of male and female XLR connectors from Switchcraft and Neutrik.
Plug the naked pins into the receptors. Watch the Nuetrik fall out of it's mate. Observe that the fit of the Switchcraft is secure.
Now go refresh your memory with regards to contact pressure and electrical conductance.
I learned this little trick from a big rig bass player who also happened to work tech at a ISO 9600 avionics facility that was concerned with reliability of connections in low level circuits on things like helicopters.
Switchcraft went to the moon! Neutrik is more like the mouse that roared.
The only credible reason to use Neutrik is that they are easier and cheaper to assemble... which is a compelling reason if you have to replace your Neutrik connectors all the time.
But hey that's just an opinion :-)
best regards,
mike
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Beagle
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/27 13:50:54
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hey, mike - yes, I'm an EE in and I work for a large government (avionics) contractor. good info on the connector, I will check it out. thanks!
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Help with cable components and building a custom cable
2008/06/27 14:00:26
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I hopes it obvious I was having fun being outrageous...
I do think it's a valid observation and I always insist on Switchcraft unless I really really want to use the nifty colored collars that are available for Neutrik.
best regards,
mike
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