Help with lyrics? Is this legal?

What would be illegal about that?  Unless you stole it form someone else.... Ohhh.... I see said the blind man.... yeah, Cake doesn't really have a lyrics forum...... does it? 

I'm glad to see you striking out into lyric writing. Please accept this with a grain of salt. It's not meant to be harsh or critical.... just some basics into writing that have taken me a while to learn. 

When it comes to lyrics..... there are certain "rules" that should be followed to one degree or another. Some would argue that's not the case, that anything goes. I would say maybe..... but the rules are there for a reason and if you listen to popular songs, most of them follow the rules to the letter. 

Writing lyric is a learned skill. The more you write, the better you get. 

My co-writer, who is more of a lyricist than I, has taught me a few things....and just a few days ago, I had the opportunity to talk in depth with a Nashville hit writer on the topic of writing, as it concerned stuff I had written....and he backed up what Pat said, and actually went deeper. 

Here's what I learned from both the Nashville cat and my co-writer. 

You need a rhyming structure. You can choose to have one or not....if not, the words must be extremely powerful to the point that rhyming is not as important as the words. (this is generally a very rare situation) 

So having a rhyming structure is critical. No matter the form... if you rhyme the last word in line 1 & 3  or 2 & 4 or both..... you must follow through the same pattern on all the verses. You can also rhyme words inside the lines....again, that should be repeated in the following verses. 

Your syllable count .... line by line, should also match from one verse to the next. Not doing this makes the melody different in it's rhythm. 

The overall structure..... verses, bridge, chorus....is totally up to you the writer as you tell the story through the song.

Verses provide details, who what when where why, kind of things.... they can tell the story from various points of view....or build on one another to complete the story in parts.

Choruses tie all the verses together and give the song the anchor point.... generally the title and hook (musical and lyrical hook) will be found in the chorus. This should be very easy to predict where the title is and you should be able to name the title without knowing it...first time you hear the song. 

Bridges.... are just that... they take you from one place to another and they connect things.... the most important thing to me about a bridge is that it should be melodically different from the verse/chorus in the song and it should add a different perspective to the song. Kind of like a twist in the plot. This is where you give some new information on the story. It will generally take you right back to the chorus where now, you may view the chorus in a different light. 

Dang... was that too much information? 

Sorry if it was.... I love writing and talking about writing....

Another thing.... beginners tend to use lots of cliches..... avoid cliches. Think about what you want to say...... "I love you"  is so cliche in songs but it's used a lot..... it's been said thousands of times before..... instead.... think of a way to say it differently.... " I can't live without the sparkle in your eyes, the funny way you smile"..... it says about the same thing, but in a way it may not have been said before. Listen to the songs on the radio..... lots of people pan that stuff, but you gotta listen to see how these writers are saying the same old things..... BUT in a new and different way. 

Hope this helps you..... 

If you are going to be writing lyrics, I would suggest getting a few books on the art and aspect of writing song lyrics. 

Edit: on melodic range....if it's out of the range of the "normal singers" maybe it should be changed so it does fit. Not everyone has the range of just a handful of the pros......  changing a melody to fit a more realistic vocal range is easy work.

For the second line in the first verse I think time is better than again as a “sort of rhyme” for mine. Something like this:

If I don’t get to say goodbye, know I love you,

You’re the rhythm of my heart beating in time

Just wanna hold your hand and say, I’m so thankful

That I am yours and you are mine.

Being willing to scratch something out totally and think out of the box to find something that fits.... 

work with a co-writer. Nothing has helped me more than this one thing. 

Do you have a rhyming dictionary? There are some writing tools like this on line.

I often take the word that needs to rhyme in a line that is really well written.....and look it up in a rhyming dictionary to see as many other words that are primary rhymes....and then secondary rhymes....then the imperfect rhymes....and of course.... rhyming phrases. Rhyming phrases, if not cliches, can really take the lyric in unique directions. 

Look online to find some sites that offer these kind of tools. I use Masterwriter (a paid program) which has all this built in and updated regularly.  Most people can think of half a dozen rhymes to maybe a dozen..... but a good rhyming dictionary will provide you with hundreds of words that rhyme.... unless you are trying to rhyme "orange"..... even Masterwriter is stumped on that one. Some words I have looked up have over 35 PAGES of rhymes..... if you can't get a good unique idea from that many words.... maybe you got the wrong word. 

I have used that very method numerous times when I got stuck on a line. I look at the rhyming words and something will fit...and a new line to the song is written.

Here is a suggestion for the 3rd line of the second verse:

Before you came into my life, I was searching

Always looking for someone to make me whole

When we shared that wine and chocolate, my heart melted

You lit a fire down in my soul.

(that line will fit with your phrasing in the 1st verse if you sing chocolate with 2 syllables)

Great advice from all the above!

Lyrics aren't necessarily poetry, so it's really hard to judge lyrics without knowing the melody. While a sense of rhyme is important, in a lot of today's contemporary music a sense of conversation is more important. It has to sound like someone would really say it, and if it comes off as sounding cool/hip so much the better.
Go to this page and click the "study the hits" link. Robin does a great job of breaking down today's hit songs and explaining what makes them work. www.robinfrederick.com

Most of all have fun. While rules are meant to be broken, it's best to know the rules first.

Steve

"but I realized last night that the range is way too big for any normal person."


Who said I'm a normal person?

Hi Janet.  Good for you --- you're trying out your hand in lyric writing.  Looks like you have made a good start and received some great advice.  Once site that I have found helpful for finding rhymes is http://www.rhymer.com/ .  However, at times I find that the number of rhymes that they give for some words can be overwhelming.
 

Thanks Freddy!

James, I haven't recorded anything yet.  It's just the lyrics here.  

Janet


Thanks Freddy!

James, I haven't recorded anything yet.  It's just the lyrics here.  
 
Hi Janet guess my mind is still in computer shock mode trying to reinstall my drum software thats been giving me big problems reinstalling on my new computer .
 
I never had any luck writing my lyrics frist I always created my music first but thats just me , can't wait to hear the lyrics & the music .
 
James

Janet


James, the music's written.  The first line came to me pretty much like it is here...with the music.  The rest of it flowed from that, but the words are harder.

You're not alone in that dept., but that's why I don't call myself a poet ( though I used to write some) or lyricist (not a good one anyway)

Dave...(quantumeffect)...your ideas gave me some ideas for the verses. Thanks!  I'm not sure that 'we shared a laugh one day' is strong enough to say 'and my heart melted' but I'll keep thinking about it.  Thanks again!  

(the wine and chocolate is cool but it doesn't work with the meter I've written.  I know you'd know that if you'd hear the tune. But I appreciate the ideas!)  

Janet


James, the music's written.  The first line came to me pretty much like it is here...with the music.  The rest of it flowed from that, but the words are harder.

I'm in that camp too. The music for me is the easier of the two. Which is one reason I like to work with other people when composing lyric. That is a case of "two heads are better than one".  Pat & I often tend to bounce lyric back and forth 6 to 8 times or more. And we have done rewrites which are second shots at the same song with equally as many bounces. My rule for writing a song and a rewrite of a song is summed up in this: Nothing is sacred.  


When I work on lyrics I generally like to have my guitar and work out the idea musically at the same time I am working it out lyrically. Even if you can't sing well, you can still do what you can because you can hear it in your head...and verbalizing the words while writing helps you to see what fits and what doesn't. 


Approach writing like you are writing a term paper.... yeah I know that sounds crazy and kinda dry for something that is supposed to be from the heart and soul.... but.... Start with the general over all idea of what you want to say in the song..... write it down.  Now, make an outline of the idea with a first verse, second verse, chorus, and just get the outline into a workable series of notes.  Next, write down everything that comes to mind, no matter how "on topic" or "off topic" it might be. 

Song about my loved one.

1 V1: how we met
2. V2: why I was attracted to you
3. Ch: what you mean to me now and why
4. V3 our future together
5. Ch repeat perhaps with a word change to add new dimension to the concept in ch.

From that simple outline.... you see the main topic of each verse and can now write TO that idea.... no wandering aimlessly lyrically. It keeps you on track. 

I used to only write down things I thought were "brilliant lines". Now I write everything.... because that thing you thought was off topic may be the mental clue your brain needed to find that really unique and truly brilliant turn of a phrase.  If you end up in a dead end alley, simply go back to the last place where you were moving forward.... do not discard the dead end lyric.... just remove it and try again. 

More than one time, I have had a dead end that worked brilliantly in a different verse. So don't scrap anything permanently....

There are a number of good writers here in the forums. In addition there are specific forums on the net which focus on the art and skills of writing. My suggestion would be to seek out someone whose writing & lyric skills you like and PM that individual and work with them to write this as a serious collab effort. Here in the forum, you will get suggestions... off line and behind the scenes, you can really get to work and develop this into the best it could be. 

 
Hi Janet,
 
I haven't been around for awhile but here's a few things that have helped me.
 
This is my best suggestion and this software has been really helpful to me. If I recall correctly it was about 100 bucks but it's really great. It has everything you can think of for songwriting. Before purchasing it I downloaded the free trial to check it out. After playing with it I just had to have it:
http://www.masterwriter.com/songwriters.html
 
Here's a free website for ryhmes:
http://www.rhymezone.com/
 
 
Sometime entire songs are built around cliches. Here's a free website for cliches.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/a.html
 
And finally an article about song writing and writing hooks for songs:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Hooks-to-Hits:-The-Key-to-Writing-Songs-That-Sell&id=252357
 
And finally...I still check in from time to time but very rarely post anymore. Quite frankly I've been listening to some of your creations and I think you've been doing an amazing job.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Pete
 
 

If I could make a little suggestion Janet..

The title and some of the lyrics you have share a similar theme to this song; 

Sometimes late at night I lie awake and watch her sleeping
She's lost in peaceful dreams
So I turn out the lights and lay there in the dark
And the thought crosses my mind
If I never wake up in the morning
Would she ever doubt the way
I feel About her in my heart


If tomorrow never comes
Will she know how much I loved her
Did I try in every way to show her every day
That she's my only one
And if my time on earth were through
And she must face this world without me
Is the love I gave her in the past
Gonna be enough to last
If tomorrow never comes '

etc...

What strikes me about your song is that you haven't really explored that idea too much, in fact it doesn't figure in the chorus at all.

As a love song, it's fine, but I think it might be stronger if you expanded on the central idea.

Herb, great ideas! Daryl actually mentioned that 'think of the story' idea a few years ago, and that's how I was able to write Born to Fly.  But yeah, this isn't exactly born to be great or anything.  I think the verse could probably be the chorus and maybe should be, cause that's the hook that first came to me.  And yes, that line is never repeated so it's not a good title.  And collabing is definitely a great idea.  Anyway, thanks again.  

Hi Pete!  Thank you!  I'll look up those sites.  Thanks.  Glad to know you're still around, even if it's in stealth mode.  :)  I hope you're doing well!  

James, yes I know that song and just love it.  I know I'll need to get more serious about it if I want to do a really good job.  But it's just for fun and a rare break from work right now.  I have so many irons in the fire I can't keep them all turning well at all.  (I know I'm not the only one in that boat!)  In the meantime, the music's really pretty, IMO.  :)  Thanks for your suggestion!