Help with motu 828 mkii latency and vista please?

Here is the problem:

Using the USB version of the 828 mkii, on Vista x64, on a fairly powerful computer, the MOTU audio console only allows me to choose as low as 512 samples per buffer (which equates to approx 11.6ms latency). This is also as low as Sonar 6 allows me to choose, on the latency slider.

On a older, less powerful computer, on Windows XP, it allows me to choose 256 samples per buffer. Regardless of whether it runs stutter/pop free, it at least allows me the choice to try a lower latency, and see if it works.

MOTU tech support have still not answered my queries.

Does anyone else have this issue with Vista and the 828mkii? What is the lowest latency others have been allowed to try by the MOTU audio console? Were you using the USB or firewire version?

Yes. Mine only goes down to 512 :-(

And, yes I'm on 44k1, and I believe it's the same whether I'm using ASIO or WDM

Could it perhaps be a USB limitation? Anyone out there using the USB 828 mkii?

Which docs are you referring to?

The instruction manual does not explain anything about the minimum samples-per-buffer (it only tells you how to raise/lower it, and why).

I couldn't find anything on the MOTU website (Tech notes, etc)

The documentation with the latest driver (downloaded from MOTU website) does not mention anything about this. I've also looked at the documentation with the windows XP driver - also no explanation about this.

I've tried google, but the various keywords, etc, for searching that I have used - have not shown anything helpful (other than the fact that other people seem to be able to choose as low as 32 samples per buffer - but they were using FireWire interface - couldn't find any report about the same with USB).

I've also asked MOTU tech support - and their first reply was that I should be using TI or Lucent chipset for my firewire - but I am using USB !!!!!!! Am still waiting for further reply from them.

Hence, I'm trying this forum. I will be very grateful if anyone could advise.

Hi

This is a real long shot . . . but have you got anything that is USB1 plugged in? I've heard that it can affect usb2 perfomance when it is on the same board.

Could it perhaps be a USB limitation? Anyone out there using the USB 828 mkii?

No, it's not a USB limitation. I used the USB version of the 828 for a while (ended up swapping it for FW) and there were no issues like this.

I think MOTU is the best place to find an answer. Only they can tell you what criteria cause the buffer size selections to be limited, since they're the ones that wrote it. Somewhere in there is a block of code that says: if (insert test that only the programmer knows) is true, then set the minimum buffer size to X.

I am using Vista 64 bit, so am afraid may not completely answer your question. With what I believe to be 3.6.8.1360 drivers, it is still the same (ie 512 samples), and currently I am trying the latest 3.6.8.1400 which I just noticed on MOTU website. I suspect that is mainly for the mk3, but anyway having a bit of difficulty installing those at the moment.

Interestingly on my same computer, I also installed windows XP, and it only allows me to go down to 256 samples. So it might be a USB issue, or a specific USB hardware (motherboard) issue (since bitflipper claims that he had no problems with USB version).

Will update later if I manage to install 3.6.8.1400

Wei Liang

ORIGINAL: yapweiliang

OK - still same latency with the latest 3.6.8.1400 driver.

I've been using a mkII for about 4 years with XP 32-bit and no problems. I make extensive use of CueMix to setup monitor mixes during tracking. As long as you don't need to hear effects or other processing from SONAR during tracking, the 512 sample buffers won't bother you. You can use CueMix to setup monitor mixes with a latency of only about 3 ms.

I've just upgraded to a Core i7, Vista x64 and I'm running SONAR PE 8.3.1. I'm using the 3.6.8.1400 drivers because that's what was available on the motu's website. I don't know about previous versions of the 64-bit driver but there are plenty of issues with the 3.6.8.1400 version.

Here are the one's I've found: 1) ASIO drivers do some strange things and I can't get them to work for me; 2) CueMix doesn't work [a real killer for me]; 3) Minimum buffer size up from 32 to 96 sample; and 4) Maximum sample rate is down from 96k to 48k. I reported all this to motu and they advised me that they knew about 3) and 4); and they had duplicated 1) and 2). They are working on a solution.

I'm using the WavesRT drivers and having no trouble getting the buffer settings down to the current minimum [96 samples] With Vista x64. Works fine. With the WavesRT drivers, just slide the little slider near the bottom of the Options/Audio General Tab all the way to the left.

What you and I both need is an earlier, stable, working version of the Vista 64-bit motu firewire drivers.

If you have a pre 3.6.8.1400 version of the mkII 64-bit firewire drivers running smoothly with Vista x64, please post it or tell us where we can find it.

Thanks.

Bill

Thanks, Jim - I have been begining to suspect that that is the case - certainly nobody in MOTU that I have communicated with will admit that the USB version operates with a slower latency.

The sales team said that the firewire & usb version were exactly the same apart from the actual port; technical support asked me try various (silly) things... but never understood what I was on about.

I would be curious about your source of this information (as it is contradictory to what bitflipper said).

Best wishes,
Wei Liang

Sorry, I don't mean to cause offence.

if you read earlier posts in this thread, one of the other contributers said that he'd used the USB version and never had any problems with this latency issue

Best wishes,
Wei Liang

if you read earlier posts in this thread, one of the other contributers said that he'd used the USB version and never had any problems with this latency issue

No offense taken... I was just confused about the question.
FWIW, You can't select an ASIO buffer size smaller than 256-samples when using the USB version of the 828.
ASIO buffer size (along with A/D D/A converters and the driver's hidden safety buffer) determines the unit's round-trip latency.
As to whether the latency works for you... depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
Monitoring thru software EFX using an ASIO buffer size of 256-samples @ 44.1k would be far too sluggish for me.
Anything above 6ms starts to feel sluggish to me.
At 256-samples/44.1k, the ASIO buffer size alone accounts for 11.6ms of latency (when figured round-trip - for realtime monitoring of EFX). Now add a couple of ms for the A/D D/A converters... and you're at upwards of 14ms (without factoring in the hidden safety buffer).

Thanks folks.

I guess in a sense I do feel a bit 'cheated', having purchased this mkii and expected to have the low buffer sizes. If motu had made it clear, then at least I would have known what I was getting when I bought it; or at least not wasted time wondering what was wrong with my computer.

The UC looks interesting :-)

Wei Liang

Is there any more news on this issue?

ORIGINAL: yapweiliang

No, and I have not found any motu 828mkii USB version owners/users who have said what latencies they are achieving. My current believe now, is that it is a USB limitation.

Wei Liang

So, are you living with the limitation or did you give up and try a different audio interface? I am looking at this unit because I am about to make the jump to Vista 64 and I want to go USB. The RME unit is out of my price range.

Thanks for the update