fortunjj
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7
- Joined: 2010/05/14 23:48:13
- Status: offline
Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
For all the sonar experts...
When exporting a final mix in 8.5, I have no virtual instruments in the mix - just the audio tracks. I am sure I am exporting the master bus, and I can hear the mix in its entirety. Further, all is well when the soft synths are frozen - but then, of course, I'm really just exporting a wav file.
As a side note, I have spent over 10 years working with nuendo and just recently opted to try out Sonar. Short of making extensive use of automation, I am intimately familiar with the digital recording process. However, Sonar continues to amaze me in its utter stupidity. My favorite bug is the inability to arm / disarm tracks while playback is enabled. I might see this being a problem when not using direct monitoring, but why can't I do it otherwise?
I don't want to completely trash Sonar - it is a solid and stable recording package. Its 64 bit support is unsurpassed. By the way, for those of you using Windows 7 - give up and use XP. Even if you have reasonable Windows 7 performance (which is difficult to achieve), the same machine will give better performance under XP. Note however, I'm just offering personal and anecdotal advise. If you want to bang your head on Windows 7 as I did for a few months until I realize I could use the same hardware and avoid all dropouts with XP, be my guest.
But I digress... So to summarize, I can't get Sonar to export soft synths. And Sonar has possibly the worst and most non-intuitive user interface possible (short of Office 2007 - if you find that the Office 2007 UI gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling and find yourself saying "now THIS is how all programs should work", please don't respond to this post. I have nothing to say to you). Cakewalk should spend some time studying Nuendo's UI. They are similar, but when you use a feature in Nuendo, it does what you would think it should do. Not so with Sonar.
Sorry, I digressed again... Anybody who has tolerated my rant and could offer me some advice on exporting audio in Sonar, I would really appreciate it.
|
bunnyfluffer
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
- Total Posts : 674
- Joined: 2007/08/11 03:23:57
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 00:42:08
(permalink)
try "select all" and then re-export - generally when this happens the "audio" part of the soft synth folder is not selected - for soft synth to print on export do the following: a) freeze the track so audio is printed when you select tracks for mix down (the freeze button looks like a snowflake in the screenshot below) and/or b) make sure all THREE parts of each soft synth folder are selected before mixing down for export  it's a common thing to overlook. I think the interface is just fine - I could make the same statement about the UI on Logic or Pro-Tools when frustrated and not used to the software's conventions. After spending 10 years on any platform - any other one feel strange. For this reason I use Sonar as my primary DAW but also like to stay on top of Logic and ProTools - bit of which frustrate me in their conventions, but their users don't seem to mind - so it must be me!
post edited by bunnyfluffer - 2010/05/15 00:55:12
|
mudgel
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12010
- Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
- Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 01:11:36
(permalink)
SONAR 8.5 does allow arming during playback but it is turned off by default. Some folks like the safeguard of not having that option generally available. Press the F1 key with SONAR open; enter "arm tracks" into the search window and voila, you'll have details on how to set it as the default behaviour. For a first post I'd say you're on your way to winning a lot of friends here. 
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
|
papa2005
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3250
- Joined: 2009/08/01 16:43:11
- Location: Southeastern, US
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 03:16:45
(permalink)
mudgel
SONAR 8.5 does allow arming during playback but it is turned off by default. Some folks like the safeguard of not having that option generally available.
Press the F1 key with SONAR open; enter "arm tracks" into the search window and voila, you'll have details on how to set it as the default behaviour.
For a first post I'd say you're on your way to winning a lot of friends here.
Man, ain't that the truth...*LOL*
Regards, Papa CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5 CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials... CLICK HERE for a link to Getting Started with Session Drummer 3...
|
Lanceindastudio
Max Output Level: -29 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4604
- Joined: 2004/01/22 02:28:30
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 03:28:26
(permalink)
Control A is your friend. It will select all of your tracks, and you should get your softsynths in the mix.
Just click in the track view anywhere in an empty space with no clips in it to clear anything from being highlighted for safety and push control, and while holding control push a. Voila, all tracks highlighted and will be mixed down-
If this doesnt work, maybe you need to push control also and click on the track folders with softsynths in them to select them too, but I wouldnt think so-
Yes, that was an intelligent (I accidentally spelled it intellignet at first lol - Intelligent on the net? haha) first post. Welcome to the forums!
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 04:32:43
(permalink)
When exporting a final mix in 8.5, I have no virtual instruments in the mix - just the audio tracks. I am sure I am exporting the master bus, and I can hear the mix in its entirety. Further, all is well when the soft synths are frozen - but then, of course, I'm really just exporting a wav file. Do you have a soft synth or don't you? It is unclear. I don't want to completely trash Sonar - it is a solid and stable recording package. Its 64 bit support is unsurpassed. By the way, for those of you using Windows 7 - give up and use XP. Even if you have reasonable Windows 7 performance (which is difficult to achieve), the same machine will give better performance under XP. Note however, I'm just offering personal and anecdotal advise. If you want to bang your head on Windows 7 as I did for a few months until I realize I could use the same hardware and avoid all dropouts with XP, be my guest.
You again do not make much sense. Windows 7 and Sonar are ideal for one another. But you do know that Sonar and XP 64 bit is not supported by CW right? Whether you run Vista or Windows 7 you do need Vista/Windows 7 hardware to run them well. If you do you will find that they will out perform XP with ease. But I digress... So to summarize, I can't get Sonar to export soft synths. And Sonar has possibly the worst and most non-intuitive user interface possible (short of Office 2007 - if you find that the Office 2007 UI gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling and find yourself saying "now THIS is how all programs should work", please don't respond to this post. I have nothing to say to you). Cakewalk should spend some time studying Nuendo's UI. They are similar, but when you use a feature in Nuendo, it does what you would think it should do. Not so with Sonar.
Well I find the GUI of Sonar to be Windows compliant. Sort of like Logic is now OSX compliant. If you want your GUI to not follow the standard of the OS being used then I see your point. If like the great many that do then I don't see your point.
|
Kalle Rantaaho
Max Output Level: -5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7005
- Joined: 2006/01/09 13:07:59
- Location: Finland
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 05:49:50
(permalink)
 What's up gentlemen? "All" the answers are as if you had not read the question at all except for part that the OP hasn't adopted SONAR yet and is longin for the workflow he's used to. Everybody coming from another program behaves in the same way. They want to try another program and then they're annoyed it's different from what they're used to. Anything that is different is usually regarded negative. Also they often look for certain functions in the wrong places or under wrong search word an assume these functions don't exist. No matter how experienced one is with one software, one still needs to read the manual when moving to another software. The OP seems to be an experienced user of Nuendo so he most likely has the basic understanding of soft synths. And the question...If the soft synths aren't exported, and the export source is Master Bus, then the output of the audio tracks of the soft synths are not set to Master Bus. At least that's the only explanation I can think of. And as stated, SONAR does allow arming on the fly.
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
|
papa2005
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3250
- Joined: 2009/08/01 16:43:11
- Location: Southeastern, US
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 06:15:05
(permalink)
Kalle, SONAR PE 6.02 does not allow arming the record function on the fly...SONAR 8.5.3 does...I've been up all night working on other stuff so I'm not going to try to address the rest of your post...
post edited by papa2005 - 2010/05/15 06:20:51
Regards, Papa CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5 CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials... CLICK HERE for a link to Getting Started with Session Drummer 3...
|
mudgel
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12010
- Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
- Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 06:23:08
(permalink)
Kalle
When you say "All" the answers are as if you had not read the questions:
For my part I answered the part I chose.
as far as everyone coming form another program behaves the same way well I don't go on the forums of other products and dis them at all let alone If I'm expecting help with a problem.
I would certainly do a bit more research of a product before I started to make claims about its limitations and such. Its just not a nice way to communicate with folks.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
|
papa2005
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3250
- Joined: 2009/08/01 16:43:11
- Location: Southeastern, US
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 06:26:48
(permalink)
mudgel
Kalle
When you say "All" the answers are as if you had not read the questions:
For my part I answered the part I chose.
as far as everyone coming form another program behaves the same way well I don't go on the forums of other products and dis them at all let alone If I'm expecting help with a problem.
I would certainly do a bit more research of a product before I started to make claims about its limitations and such. Its just not a nice way to communicate with folks.
Ten-Four, good buddy! 
Regards, Papa CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5 CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials... CLICK HERE for a link to Getting Started with Session Drummer 3...
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 07:54:43
(permalink)
What's up gentlemen? "All" the answers are as if you had not read the question at all except for part that the OP hasn't adopted SONAR yet and is longin for the workflow he's used to. Maybe you missed my post where I respond to each point. At least the ones others didn't. As far as I can tell those that did respond did so to points that the responder wanted to respond to. Sort of what a forum is all about.
|
fortunjj
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7
- Joined: 2010/05/14 23:48:13
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 10:56:52
(permalink)
First, thank you all for the responses!
I'm not sure that I have a solution to the problem... I got "select all tracks" which I did try (and didn't help) and I got "freeze the tracks" which defeats the purpose.
For those that were interested in criticizing the messenger for my complaints about Sonar's interface - I was talking about first impressions of a new piece of software. Yes, I was very critical. However, my point is that I was immensely impressed with the ease of use of Nuendo from the get go. Everything that was set up by default made sense. My problem with Sonar is that I received a lousy impression of the program right from the start. I am well aware that the program is highly customizable - so are all DAWs. I am also aware that I don't know all of the customizable features of Sonar. However, I use hundreds of pieces of software each day (and I'm in the middle of writing a very complicated piece of software myself) and I don't have the headspace to be seeking out esoteric settings to do things that should be intuitively obvious. For example, don't get me started about adding a small (and hard to find) icon to undock windows for multiple monitors. It took me a while to find that stupid thing and get it to work properly. One last point on the UI. As a software developer, I feel that most of the UI should be intuitive - no manual necessary. Deep features, of course, require more information. I don't get a good feeling about the intuitive nature of the Sonar UI. So yes, I can hit F1 constantly to find out why I can't undock the windows or do this or that, but I shouldn't have to do this for EVERY feature that I want to use.
With respect to Windows 7 and the claims about Sonar and Windows 7 being made for each other - run DPC Latency checker on the same machine running Windows 7 and XP and you'll see what I mean. I do apologize about the mention of XP - I should have stated XP 32 bit. I don't have any experience with XP 64 bit.
First post or not, I'm throwing things out for discussion. I know you are all Sonar users, but that is not a religion. Sonar is a piece of software. It is not necessary to defend it as a religion. I thought I was clear that Sonar is a good piece of software. I mean, I am using it and am willing to figure it out, or I wouldn't have written that post. If I didn't endear myself to the keepers of the Sonar holy grail, I couldn't possibly care less.
However, you responded! And I thank you again for that!
|
stratman70
Max Output Level: -45 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3044
- Joined: 2006/09/12 20:34:12
- Location: Earth
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 10:58:16
(permalink)
Edit: Someday I will be the bigger person and help despite arrogance-But not today
post edited by stratman70 - 2010/05/15 14:32:19
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 14:29:10
(permalink)
The most likely cause is the soft synths are not routed to the master bus.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 14:31:53
(permalink)
run DPC Latency checker on the same machine running Windows 7 and XP and you'll see what I mean This is intriguing, but I don't have W7 here, so any chance you could elaborate on this observation? I don't understand why DPC latency should be worse on W7 than XP, if all the same hardware is enabled.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 15:10:04
(permalink)
stratman70
Edit: Someday I will be the bigger person and help despite arrogance-But not today
Ditto.
|
JonD
Max Output Level: -39 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3617
- Joined: 2003/12/09 11:09:10
- Location: East of Santa Monica
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 17:15:40
(permalink)
fortunjj
With respect to Windows 7 and the claims about Sonar and Windows 7 being made for each other - run DPC Latency checker on the same machine running Windows 7 and XP and you'll see what I mean.... On your system... This doesn't mean it applies to every other Win7 system on the planet (which you seem to believe). Plenty of folks here are doing just fine with Sonar and Win7 (and don't see what you do with the DPC checker). It's funny, actually. You know everything, but we're the religion...
SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
|
perfectprint
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 862
- Joined: 2010/01/02 02:21:12
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 17:23:35
(permalink)
A habit I have developed is to move the audio from the frozen synth to a new audio track outside of the vsti folder, then hiding the vst folder to avoid the clutter.
|
stratman70
Max Output Level: -45 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3044
- Joined: 2006/09/12 20:34:12
- Location: Earth
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 19:13:46
(permalink)
JonD
fortunjj
With respect to Windows 7 and the claims about Sonar and Windows 7 being made for each other - run DPC Latency checker on the same machine running Windows 7 and XP and you'll see what I mean.... On your system... This doesn't mean it applies to every other Win7 system on the planet (which you seem to believe). Plenty of folks here are doing just fine with Sonar and Win7 (and don't see what you do with the DPC checker).
It's funny, actually. You know everything, but we're the religion...
well said JD
|
DaneStewart
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 717
- Joined: 2008/02/18 13:48:58
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 21:47:25
(permalink)
Hey fortunjj,
Boo on that "grandpa Simpson" move that both you AND I did - thinking you can't arm and disarm on the fly. I've been on SONAR since 6.2 when it was NOT possible - so I never even thought to ask.
As for the GUI - I think it has a lost to do with "did you used to record with consoles and recorders". I did for sure, and I always like NUENDO's structure too. But after I did a little basic customizing - I like my SONAR GUI more and more.
I also agree with XP being the quickest platform set-up.
I'll wait another year before going to 7, let all the peripheral developers get up to speed so I don't have to spend a lot of time configuring and testing.
~DPS
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 22:02:19
(permalink)
Boo on that "grandpa Simpson" move Hey, I was the model for Grandpa Simpson and I take issue with...uh, what were we talking about? Oh, never mind.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
simpleman
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 262
- Joined: 2009/05/16 01:20:33
- Location: Down to Earth
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/15 23:01:37
(permalink)
For all the sonar experts...
However, Sonar continues to amaze me in its utter stupidity.
This remark makes me think you are referring to Sonar in a wholesome context.
This might just be subjective to your trolling ignorance and play at arrogance
Being a songwriter can be fun, even when delivering dark and gloomy compositions.
I am happy I'm no god damn programmer.
All software are amazing to me....that saved a wretch like me
|
Mooch4056
Max Output Level: -0.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7494
- Joined: 2005/02/19 17:40:35
- Location: Chicago
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/16 00:19:55
(permalink)
I don't want to completely trash Sonar - Excellent Job on that front! I couldn't have completely trashed it better myself.  Sorry, I digressed again... Anybody who has tolerated my rant and could offer me some advice on exporting audio in Sonar, I would really appreciate it. Select all - File - export to wave at what ever bit depth you chose I dunno - it's always worked for me - on sonar producer version 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 8.5 Best, Paul
From Now On Call Me Conquistador!
Donate to the cure Bapu Foundation Email: mooch4056@gmail.com for more info
|
milosch
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 45
- Joined: 2007/07/25 19:40:58
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/16 01:35:31
(permalink)
I thought Windows 7 was going to be a mistake until I stumbled upon the fix - disabling speedstep/eist, etc. DPC latency checker confirms it.
|
fortunjj
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7
- Joined: 2010/05/14 23:48:13
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/16 14:01:38
(permalink)
Just a couple of last comments - I have made no claim that I am an expert or some kind of genious. What I said was that I have used DAW's for a long time - since the first days of SAW and even cakewalk as a sequencer only. And with Sonar I have been wrestling with an interface that should not need to be wrestled with. And, oddly, y'all have decided to attack the messenger rather than think about the UI and what could be better.
With respect to Windows 7, I went down that road and investigated it thoroughly, gathering evidence from many people with many different systems. A few seemed to work well. Most had trouble. Speedstep is indeed a common problem. But that tends to cause transient blips in latency. I got around that by writing a small utility which shuts off all of the unnecessary services AND disables unnecessary hardware at the click of a button. However, what most have found is that fundamentally, interrupt latency has increased. Will this impact the performance? It depends. I only argue that given the same system, you can get better performance with XP. So, if you are having trouble with Windows 7 (and many are), consider using XP.
In the end, it has still taken my two days to mix down a song properly, because of things that behave in unbelievably idiotic ways (and if you like, I'll add "In my opinion", but this is a forum, so it is all "in our opinion"). I'll provide the issues and solutions, briefly.
1. There was a bug in Sonar that rendered my mixdown unstable likely after loading some not-so-well behaved soft synths (I guess...) . A restart fixed that.
2. The tracks do indeed need to be SELECTED. I have a problem with that. I can see the length needing to be specified, but if I mix down the master bus, I should get what I HEAR, not what I have selected.
3. Starting the mix from the very head of a soft synth track is ify - the first note may / may not work.
4. Midi Fx are NOT printed. Again, one would think that what you hear is what you get when mixing down the master bus, but this is just not so.
Thanks for all those that helped. Thought we could have some interesting discussion about Sonar's UI along the way. Instead, we ended up calling me arrogant. Oh well. As long as I get my song mixed down. I will try to help others if I notice that they have a problem I can solve, as well. I may trash Sonar at times, but I won't trash the people posting. Somehow, that seems to defeat the purpose of a forum.
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/16 14:17:01
(permalink)
1. There was a bug in Sonar that rendered my mixdown unstable likely after loading some not-so-well behaved soft synths (I guess...) . A restart fixed that. 2. The tracks do indeed need to be SELECTED. I have a problem with that. I can see the length needing to be specified, but if I mix down the master bus, I should get what I HEAR, not what I have selected. 3. Starting the mix from the very head of a soft synth track is ify - the first note may / may not work. 4. Midi Fx are NOT printed. Again, one would think that what you hear is what you get when mixing down the master bus, but this is just not so.
I haven't read all the replies, so someone else may have responded similary but ... 1- It's not always the HOST's problem that there is an ill-behaved plugin. I don't think one can simply blame the Host (Sonar in this case) in that regard. 2- No tracks need to be selected as long as none are selected AND you chose one of the "What You Hear" presets in the bouncedown/mixdown. I do this all this time. This assumes your routing is setup properly, though. 3- I have run into this "first note" problem on occasion, but more often than not it was an ill-behaved plugin's fault. I just had this happen the other day when they released an update to Omnisphere. And sure enough, a few days later they released a fix for that and all was well again. Point is, it's not always Sonar's fault again (though Sonar does have issues in this area). As an aside... I did find your original post to be a bit tense, but we see that in life all the time anyway. I would humbly suggest reviewing it to see why some took offense. As someone once said: "Words can be like weapons" if not chosen intelligently.
post edited by ba_midi - 2010/05/16 14:20:58
|
papa2005
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3250
- Joined: 2009/08/01 16:43:11
- Location: Southeastern, US
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/16 14:17:21
(permalink)
fortunjj
Just a couple of last comments - I have made no claim that I am an expert or some kind of genious. What I said was that I have used DAW's for a long time - since the first days of SAW and even cakewalk as a sequencer only. And with Sonar I have been wrestling with an interface that should not need to be wrestled with. And, oddly, y'all have decided to attack the messenger rather than think about the UI and what could be better.
With respect to Windows 7, I went down that road and investigated it thoroughly, gathering evidence from many people with many different systems. A few seemed to work well. Most had trouble. Speedstep is indeed a common problem. But that tends to cause transient blips in latency. I got around that by writing a small utility which shuts off all of the unnecessary services AND disables unnecessary hardware at the click of a button. However, what most have found is that fundamentally, interrupt latency has increased. Will this impact the performance? It depends. I only argue that given the same system, you can get better performance with XP. So, if you are having trouble with Windows 7 (and many are), consider using XP.
In the end, it has still taken my two days to mix down a song properly, because of things that behave in unbelievably idiotic ways (and if you like, I'll add "In my opinion", but this is a forum, so it is all "in our opinion"). I'll provide the issues and solutions, briefly.
1. There was a bug in Sonar that rendered my mixdown unstable likely after loading some not-so-well behaved soft synths (I guess...) . A restart fixed that.
2. The tracks do indeed need to be SELECTED. I have a problem with that. I can see the length needing to be specified, but if I mix down the master bus, I should get what I HEAR, not what I have selected.
3. Starting the mix from the very head of a soft synth track is ify - the first note may / may not work.
4. Midi Fx are NOT printed. Again, one would think that what you hear is what you get when mixing down the master bus, but this is just not so.
Thanks for all those that helped. Thought we could have some interesting discussion about Sonar's UI along the way. Instead, we ended up calling me arrogant. Oh well. As long as I get my song mixed down. I will try to help others if I notice that they have a problem I can solve, as well. I may trash Sonar at times, but I won't trash the people posting. Somehow, that seems to defeat the purpose of a forum.
You've pretty much confirmed that you haven't spent any time with the help files or the manual and that you're NOT the expert you think you are when it comes to DAW recording... 
Regards, Papa CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5 CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials... CLICK HERE for a link to Getting Started with Session Drummer 3...
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/16 14:30:56
(permalink)
"...if I mix down the master bus, I should get what I HEAR, not what I have selected..."
I wish you could see how misinformed that wish is. It's just basic mix-down procedure that you're able to choose or not choose what you want in the mix-down. To have it otherwise would be too limiting.
I've never encountered the problem you're talking about of synths not being included in a mix-down, but I work very differently. It may not appeal to you, but I always bounce my synth tracks down to audio so that by the time I'm working on a final mix, I'm only dealing with audio tracks. I have a need to have those solid audio tracks that I can solo and know for sure they've been rendered the way I want. And there's a huge advantage mixing with the visible wave forms to work with, using the visuals of the peaks and valleys in the audio as guides to where I precisely need to do automation work.
When it comes down to exporting the 2-track master, there's never a hitch in the results by selecting all those audio tracks, the automation, FX, everything associated with the tracks. Easy to see what's going on because way before that point I've muted, archived, and hidden all MIDI associated tracks via the Track Manager.
Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
Kalle Rantaaho
Max Output Level: -5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7005
- Joined: 2006/01/09 13:07:59
- Location: Finland
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/16 14:41:47
(permalink)
papa2005
Kalle,
SONAR PE 6.02 does not allow arming the record function on the fly...SONAR 8.5.3 does...I've been up all night working on other stuff so I'm not going to try to address the rest of your post...
Exactly. And the OP is using SONAR 8.5, so he does have the ability to arm on the fly if he only knows how to activate it. And to the rest of you who got annoyed by my post #7: I wrote "All" with quote-marks, which in this part of the world means not only actual quote, but also that the word isn't meant to be taken 100% seriously, also I added TWO smileys, which here and there are understood as indicators for a joke. Perhaps you guys were so tired that you reacted too seriously. Otherwise...my guess for the likely solution is the same as Bitflippers in post #14-
post edited by Kalle Rantaaho - 2010/05/16 14:46:33
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
|
fortunjj
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7
- Joined: 2010/05/14 23:48:13
- Status: offline
Re:Here's a good one - export mixdown - no soft synths
2010/05/16 16:36:36
(permalink)
OK, well I was going to give this topic a rest, but I will briefly add two points, since this is a forum and I'm glad to see people are interested. That bodes well for discussions in the future in this forum.
First, someone again pointed out that I am not the "expert I claim to be" when it comes to DAW recording. Well, I never claimed to be an expert, particularly with Sonar. What I said was that that I have used DAW software for a LONG time (and mostly Nuendo). If I was an expert with Sonar I wouldn't have needed to post to the forum at all. That said, I was critical of (and frustrated with) Sonar from my first impressions. I will reiterate that, while I appreciate spending time reading the manual, I feel that the UI is not as good as Nuendo, and requires that you dig into the manual often, since the software does things that are not intuitive. If anyone found my first post too "tense", note that it was the result of frustration with some of the strange things that I found Sonar doing. Yes, I can fix them - such as the setting in Transport->Record options - arming recording while in playback - but I still think that this is a case where the default setting is nutty! Just so as not to sound like I'm just critizing for nothing, here is my proposal on that. If you insist on making recording unavailable during playback by default, indicate that this is the case in the GUI - gray out the record button OR remove it completely. Even better, provide a tooltip that indicates that it can be armed during playback by modifying a setting. Any of these things would indicate to the user that the record status has changed and perhaps something can be done about it. In this forum, however, no one agreed that the default setting was silly. Instead, I was called an idiot for not reading the manual.
Second, I will respectfully disagree that a "what you hear is what you get" mix is limiting. I can fully adjust my mix BEFORE I print it (muting what I don't want, etc). Still, maybe I have spent too much time mixing from two inch, but I haven't done that for 15 years (I jumped into DAW early). However, I can see one advantage to allowing for the modification of some parameters after I have mixed (which I don't hear). And that would be if I wanted to somehow script multiple mixdowns - one mix with this instrument muted, one with that muted, etc. - and have that whole process fully automated (press one button, walk away and have a coffee, come back when it's all done). I will agree that given the way that Sonar seems to have some issues with soft synth mixdown, it may be just as good to bounce the synth tracks.
On a final note, someone recently posted "I used to post here frequently but...". I can understand their issues. If you are frustrated by people asking silly questions, then please don't reply to their posts. My first post was not an attack on anyone (well, except those that like the UI for Office 2007), it was an attack on some software. In the end, what matters to me is if I can easily do what I want to do, which is record music. So far, Sonar has got in the way of this process for me. Still, I'll keep plodding along, with the hopes that every time I try to do something new, I don't have to dig into the manual.
|