Helpful ReplyHere's a doozy....(maybe)....

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streckfus
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2016/05/02 13:12:27 (permalink)

Here's a doozy....(maybe)....

It's possible that I'd be better off posting this is some tech forum somewhere, but since you guys are cooler, I'll start here.
 
I'm having me some serious PC problems. My PC almost always hangs on the Windows Logo. The motherboard will POST, then everything locks up right when the Windows logo starts animating. (I'm current on Windows 7 64-bit).  I've tried various things, such as unplugging all USB devices, disconnecting from the KVM I have connected to another PC, etc. but the only thing that seems to work "fairly" regularly is clearing the CMOS on the board.
 
On those occasions when Windows does load, everything seems to be okay, right up until it isn't.  Everything locks up - including all keyboard/mouse control so there's no option for the three-finger-salute - so at that point the only option is to force a restart, whereby it'll inevitably lock up again at the logo.
 
Just in case there was a corrupted Windows file or something, I attempt to restore the system drive from a previous image (made a couple months ago when everything was rock solid). Alas, it did nothing. Same hang at startup.
 
So, it's most likely a hardware issue. Here's a fun fact: when the board POSTs, I go into the BIOS and take a look around. It says that my CPU is running at 228C.  Of course, the thing would be fried by that point and would most likely shut itself down if it got too hot (I currently have a Core i7 2600K).
 
I recently had two failed attempts at updating my video card driver (GeForce GTX 570), whereby everything locked up in the middle of the installation process. So maybe my GPU is shot.
 
Maybe one or more sticks of RAM are shot.
 
A few months ago, I kept losing connection to a few of my hard drives, then I simply unplugged their power cables and used different ones from the PSU. No problems since.
 
My first order of business is going to be purchasing a new PSU. Because hell, if my PSU is shot, and various components are getting enough juice, then that would explain my hardware failures, right?
 
Yeah, so, assuming a new PSU doesn't do the trick (I'm a pessimist), I'm probably looking at redoing everything. New GPUs use newer PCI-E slots. If my board is screwed up, I'm gonna have to replace everything anyway. Which of course means a fresh install of Windows since my current system drive will no longer work.
 
Has anyone run into anything like this? Any suggestions on things to try out before I drop $1500 on new hardware & OS?

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#1
tomixornot
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/02 13:56:39 (permalink)
If the CPU is that hot, I suspect the CPU fan stopped working ?

Albert


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#2
streckfus
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/02 14:31:11 (permalink)
Nope, fan is still running. And I really doubt the CPU can actually be that hot. Wouldn't it melt/start a fire if it were really 228C? That's like 440 degrees Fahrenheit.  I believe, although not positive, that i7 CPUs will shut down if they get to 100C or something.

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#3
tomixornot
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/02 15:20:14 (permalink)
As you mentioned, the PSU may be next in the line to swap out to check. I've encounter unstable system before due to ageing PSU, it's not efficient anymore. Hopefully it's just the PSU..

Albert


i7 2600K @ 3.40GHz / MB Intel DP67BG / 16GB Ram
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#4
TheMaartian
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/02 15:23:54 (permalink)
I'm going to bet my money on GPU failure.
 
Re the PSU, mine is 400W, but I would suggest a larger one. What's more important than actual wattage rating is design margin. I always used a 50% design margin when I was designing hardware, but then again, my controllers were going into oil field operations and failures weren't an option (for me, at least; I never blew up anything, not a pump station, not a well, not a gas platform; nothing). So I would recommend looking into the PSU manufacturers and their reputations before buying a replacement. I've had to replace the PSU on each of my last to PCs (a Sony VIAO and my current Dell XPS). Both were under warranty, so were replaced by the manufacturer with an OEM part. I did not have to do any research, sorry, so I have nothing to share on that subject.

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#5
Jesse G
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/02 15:28:54 (permalink)
Are you over clocking? Try a reset of the Mother board then see if that helps with no changes made.
 
============================
 
On the other hand,
 
My PC did that for about a week after I Built it.  It was a USB issue where I had a USB 2 device (Motu Micro Lite) in a USB3 port on the computer.   Once I disconnected the device and booted the computer,  Windows never looked back.   
 
Unplug all hardware first and then try one at a time, you'll catch the culprit. Yes it is a lot of booting up and shutting down, but isn't your DAW worth it?  

Peace,
Jesse G. A fisher of men  <><
==============================
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#6
Sycraft
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/02 16:41:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2016/05/03 14:38:42
Something is messed up in the CPU. If it is actually reporting 228C then it is broken. There is no way it could actually operate that hot, it would destroy itself. Likewise any modern (Pentium 4 or newer) Intel CPU will auto throttle below that. When they hit their hard coded thermal maximum, usually in the realm of 90-95C they flag PROCHOT and slow down their operating speed to reduce temperature. If they can't slow it enough, they'll halt.
 
So either the thermal sensing/reporting on your CPU is messed up, or the management engine on the motherboard is screwed up. You can try reflashing your BIOS (which also updates the ME code) and see if that helps. If not, then either the board or CPU probably needs to be replaced.
#7
streckfus
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/02 16:41:41 (permalink)
Hey all.
 
Regarding PSU - I'm picking up the EVGA Supernova 1000W PSU. It's gotten good user reviews and has a 10-year warranty. 1000W feels like overkill, but I've got five hard drives, a power-hungry GPU, Core i7 plus a handful of peripheral devices so I figure better safe than sorry. So yeah, that's was I'm hoping it is.
 
I too think the GPU could be a possible culprit since I had failed driver updates on it. So that would be my next step if the PSU doesn't do the trick. 
 
And nope, I don't do any overclocking. I don't trust myself that much. :)
 
I've attempted the multiple restart/process of elimination procedure but thus far no concrete results. Sometimes unplugging my iLok2 makes a difference and it boots right up (after clearing the CMOS of course). Then I'll do another restart, leaving the iLok2 unplugged, and it locks up again. Tonight I'm going to try the one-stick-of-RAM test because that's the only thing I haven't tried yet.
 
When I AM able to get into Windows, I've tried to run MemTest, but I get a message right away that says I'm low on memory even though Task Manager shows almost all of it being free...not sure if that's a problem with the software (haven't used it in years...probably back in the Windows 2000 era) or if it's indicative of bad RAM. I've tried Windows Memory Diagnostics utility, but of course that requires a restart, and well...yeah. Never gets to that point since it won't boot past the Windows logo. :)
 
Luckily my disk drives are in good shape and my data is intact. Hardware is replaceable. My music projects aren't! (Yes, they are being backed up.)

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#8
mettelus
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/02 17:03:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2016/05/03 14:40:42
"Assuming" that multiple sensors did not go offline at once, did you check the voltages reported in the BIOS? Are they still tracking properly?

During a boot cycle, heat is not excessive, but high voltage or lack of cooling/thermal paste would cause temps to spike. Also, if you just boot to BIOS, that temp might ramp up while watching it.

Be very careful trouble shooting, since if that temp sensor is remotely accurate it can be damaging to just boot it. (An application to monitor BIOS sensors while Windows is running is also advised.)

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streckfus
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/02 18:45:01 (permalink)
Welp!
 
The PC was off all day while I was at work, came home, booted her up, and bingo. Worked just fine. I tooled around the web a bit, then tried to run a couple utilities. There's an Intel diagnostics tool that performs a test on the CPU. It blasted through the first couple tests quickly, each one with a pass, then it moved on to a prime test - bam. Everything froze up, had to force a restart.
 
Powered everything off, reset the CMOS, gave it another try, dandy does it. Booted right up. Did some more tooling around, no problem, then ran a different utility. I believe it was CPU-Z. Ran that, and when it came to a stress test, bam. Everything froze up again.
 
So....whether the CPU temp readout is correct or not, I think it's safe to assume that the CPU is fried? Last night when I got it up and running during my troubleshooting, I launched SONAR and went into the plugin manager. I'd reinstalled a few plugins (this was after re-imaging my system drive, thinking there were problems there), and no issues.  Then I opened up a project I'm working on, and just as the tracks started to populate the screen, it locked up.
 
Seems that when the CPU isn't having to do much work, it's fine. But give it some numbers to crunch, and it's done. Take me out, coach.
 
To be honest, I've had some ongoing USB issues with the motherboard since I got it, although I was able to work around it without much fuss. I'm at the point where I'm probably just gonna bite the bullet and build a new system.
 
Luckily I have a retail version of Windows 7 (I'd typically go for OEM but this time I splurged) so I'm hoping that I can use the existing drive with a new setup and just expect to reactivate it, although I'm thinking it may not be as simple as that. (Microsoft said it should work on a new setup just fine as long as I reactivate the OS, but since the system drive is looking for my current drivers and new hardware will be in its place, I'm guessing I might have to do a full install of the OS from scratch.)
 
Anyway, not really excited about dropping an unexpected expense into a new PC, but hey, at least the new PC will be kickin'. I hope.

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#10
patm300e
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/03 07:30:43 (permalink)
Your old machine was Kicking compared to mine! lol
 

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#11
streckfus
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/03 09:34:06 (permalink)
patm300e
Your old machine was Kicking compared to mine! lol
 


Yeah, was. You want it? I'll sell it real cheap. :)

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#12
patm300e
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/03 13:44:56 (permalink)
streckfus
Yeah, was. You want it? I'll sell it real cheap. :)



I think I'll pass on that one...Thanks though

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#13
streckfus
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/03 14:11:28 (permalink)
You sure? I'll even throw in a 10-year-old motherboard, free of charge. It would look great on your coffee table...

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patm300e
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/04 06:57:27 (permalink)
streckfus
You sure? I'll even throw in a 10-year-old motherboard, free of charge. It would look great on your coffee table...



I'll have to pass...sorry.  My room is already full of old desktops and motherboards.  I still have an few old single cores running Windows XP (They do still work!)

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#15
streckfus
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/04 08:58:40 (permalink)
Well alright then, sounds like you're squared away! I too have a bunch of old computer hardware sitting in storage, of course in my situation, none of it works. Just too lazy to throw it away I guess.

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#16
ston
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/10 10:30:42 (permalink)
I was leaning towards the gfx card as the culprit initially, but after reading through the thread I'd say it's a memory (RAM) issue.
#17
streckfus
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/10 10:43:34 (permalink)
I never did figure out exactly what had gone wrong. There had been some wonky issues with the board's USB ports from the get-go, and I'd keep losing connections to some hard drives until I'd switched power connectors, so my bets are on the board itself and/or the PSU.
 
In any case, I ended up buying all new components and a new OS, and everything is peachy now.

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patm300e
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/13 09:35:42 (permalink)
streckfus
In any case, I ended up buying all new components and a new OS, and everything is peachy now.



Yeah, new stuff always wins!

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streckfus
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Re: Here's a doozy....(maybe).... 2016/05/13 09:40:57 (permalink)
Sure does. If I was a little more patient and a lot more knowledgeable I might've been able to track down what had actually gone wrong and spent a lot less money. But that didn't happen, so here I am! Which ultimately is fine, because I have my DAW up and running again. So I have that going for me, which is nice.

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