Upright
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Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
Forgive me for my ignorance but is there a VST in S8PE that I can apply High pass or low pass filters? Thanks :D
Windows 7 64-bit, i7 2.93 GHz, EP45-DS3R Mother Board 2GB ram, 2 sata 500GB drives, M-Audio ProFire 610, Sonar 8PE, Alpha Track, Mpc 2500 Bless the Lord!!
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caio2246
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 01:13:45
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yevster
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 01:19:11
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I could be missing something, but I usually use Sonitus EQ for that.
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AT
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 01:26:44
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Sonitus, low and high shelves. If you need them sharper, you can stack the low-mid and hi-mid frequencies.
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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Junski
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 06:40:50
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Rubberfilter - provides up to 64th order Butterworth filters to ‘rubber’ out frequencies. - this plugin was made to be a static tool - automation of any parameter is on your own risk. http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/?page_id=64 There's also another ... Electri-Q Junski
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Upright
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 07:36:14
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Thanks guys.
Windows 7 64-bit, i7 2.93 GHz, EP45-DS3R Mother Board 2GB ram, 2 sata 500GB drives, M-Audio ProFire 610, Sonar 8PE, Alpha Track, Mpc 2500 Bless the Lord!!
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 09:10:23
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I too was recently thinking that super light weight dedicated hi-pass filter would be nice to have. I have several of my paragraphic EQ setup with a hi-pass preset. I'm perpetually in a situation where I've forgotten the details of the filter designs and have to break out reference materials but it would be cool to have a hi pass with all the filters and possibly something specific to hi-pass. I've read about some crude systems that simply attenuate the lo freq info in the data rather than mimic filter mathematics... I'm curious about how that sounds. Perhaps the reason I wanted a dedicated hi pass was just so that I didn't have to look at the extra unallocated nodes. Maybe I should pursue the suggestion that one can stack nodes? That seems interesting... I guess it's analogous to multi order filters? I found a few dedicated hi pass filters at KVR but they seemed sillier than the simplicity I was looking for. best regards, mike
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lavoll
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 09:16:14
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sonar x1b, win 7, 12gig ram, 6gb ssd, i7 Hexa Processor i7-970, lynx aurora
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 09:34:03
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Re: Rubbertools, That was the most attractive filter I found a few weeks ago, but was turned off by the GUI; the fact that I rarely think of EQ as a discrete left/right process made the gui design seem wasteful (there's really only 4 knobs that I'd ever use) and the lack of some sort of graphic feedback illustrating the side effects of dialing up a 64dB slope made me lose interest in it very quickly. Thanks for all the links. best, mike
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Junski
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 09:52:30
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue Re: Rubbertools, That was the most attractive filter I found a few weeks ago, but was turned off by the GUI; the fact that I rarely think of EQ as a discrete left/right process made the gui design seem wasteful (there's really only 4 knobs that I'd ever use) and the lack of some sort of graphic feedback illustrating the side effects of dialing up a 64dB slope made me lose interest in it very quickly. Thanks for all the links. best, mike I agree w/ the GUI, separated L/R and missing graphical illustration. You can check if there are side effects coming from 'tight' settings w/ a tool called "VST Plug-in Analyzer". You can get it from same site http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/?page_id=106 If I have many different plug-ins in chain w/ RubberFilter I normally make this 'stability' check by loading ACON's EffectChainer into Analyzer and then load all plug-ins in there... . Junski
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 10:20:45
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Thanks Junski, that page has some interesting stuff. best, mike
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 12:50:41
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ORIGINAL: AT Sonitus, low and high shelves. If you need them sharper, you can stack the low-mid and hi-mid frequencies. Hey, THANKS! I never tried this... and so I loaded up a project and placed Voxengo Gliss EQ before and instance of Stillwell Audio's scHope. I used ScHope to zoom in to 20-100Hz with the hi res FFT size. I stacked up 5 nodes as hi pass filters in Voxengo Gliss EQ and found that I could seemingly eliminate any activity down below 40Hz... which scHope showed was still quite active with only a single hi-pass instance... without creating a obvious resonant peak. This is what I'm speaking/thinking about... I don't know enough about filters but it seems like there should be some easy way to ERADICATE any data below a certain frequency with a one click plugin while feeling confident you were not building a resonant peak near the cutoff. I made a preset of my 5 stack and unless I learn of some bad side effect intend to use it for a basic hi-pass on futurte work. I'm still curious, is the preset I just made analagous to a fifth order filter??? best regards, mike
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Upright
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 13:12:31
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Thanks guys.
Windows 7 64-bit, i7 2.93 GHz, EP45-DS3R Mother Board 2GB ram, 2 sata 500GB drives, M-Audio ProFire 610, Sonar 8PE, Alpha Track, Mpc 2500 Bless the Lord!!
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Junski
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 14:32:33
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue ORIGINAL: AT Sonitus, low and high shelves. If you need them sharper, you can stack the low-mid and hi-mid frequencies. Hey, THANKS! ... ... This is what I'm speaking/thinking about... I don't know enough about filters but it seems like there should be some easy way to ERADICATE any data below a certain frequency with a one click plugin while feeling confident you were not building a resonant peak near the cutoff. ... best regards, mike Maybe you need SynthEdit - http://www.synthedit.com/ +++ Christian Budde's Butterworth/Chebyshev LP/HP filter modules. - http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/?page_id=442 (looks like I can't get rid of this productive fellow today ) Quite easy to use ... I just downloaded above mentioned software and modules and it took 'bout 20 minutes to prepare a simple (only one slider to set the frequency) steep HP filter. Junski
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Tom F
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 15:02:21
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue ORIGINAL: AT Sonitus, low and high shelves. If you need them sharper, you can stack the low-mid and hi-mid frequencies. Hey, THANKS! I never tried this... and so I loaded up a project and placed Voxengo Gliss EQ before and instance of Stillwell Audio's scHope. I used ScHope to zoom in to 20-100Hz with the hi res FFT size. I stacked up 5 nodes as hi pass filters in Voxengo Gliss EQ and found that I could seemingly eliminate any activity down below 40Hz... which scHope showed was still quite active with only a single hi-pass instance... without creating a obvious resonant peak. This is what I'm speaking/thinking about... I don't know enough about filters but it seems like there should be some easy way to ERADICATE any data below a certain frequency with a one click plugin while feeling confident you were not building a resonant peak near the cutoff. I made a preset of my 5 stack and unless I learn of some bad side effect intend to use it for a basic hi-pass on futurte work. I'm still curious, is the preset I just made analagous to a fifth order filter??? best regards, mike hi mike i am also not a eq-specialist but i really wonder if it is possible that your 5times stacked highpass doesnt affect negatively the rest of the spectrum....actually i havent seen many eq´s having much mor than a 36db/octave lowcut filter usually the q around the bended frequency gets pretty high...so i tend not to use very steep cuts but rather gentle ones but starting from higher or lower freq´s .... from a technical point of view - even if the q isnt resonating the rest of the spectrum should be at least a little be affected negatively be "erasing" some ranges - what about the 1st 2nd and 3rd harmonics of that what is killed ??? just asking anyway .... i tend not to eq very hard cos it almost never "feels" nice to my ears... hints and tips would be appreciated ... cheers
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 19:47:43
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Good Questions! All I know is that I stared at the highest res fastest response in scHope and watched carefully for changes as I switched each node in or out. I saw the activitity below 40Hz finally disapear... if harmonics of that disapear... harmaonics that were likely from room modes, local resonances, or extraneous noise, rather than feature source material then I guess I don't mind them being discarded even without my notice... if it's happening. I was using Voxengo Gliss EQ because it has a nice real time frequency analyzer. I used schOpe because it's the highest res frequency viewer I have. My Voxengo Gliss settings were: all five nodes have the same settings: frequency: 80 bandwidth: 2.54 HZ (this seems to the steepest that doesn't cause an adjacent resonant peak) gain: 0 (this control doesn't seem pertinent with the Hi-Pass filter option) dynamics: 0 (I tried various settings... and left it at *0* in an effort to disengage the feature) edit to add: I just made a preset for Sonitus FX EQ as suggested... I used a hi pass filter at 80Hz with a Q of 1.4 on each node. I went lower than 80Hz but the was discernible energy dancing around at 20-30Hz. best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2008/12/13 20:21:18
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Tom F
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 20:58:47
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue Good Questions! All I know is that I stared at the highest res fastest response in scHope and watched carefully for changes as I switched each node in or out. I saw the activitity below 40Hz finally disapear... if harmonics of that disapear... harmaonics that were likely from room modes, local resonances, or extraneous noise, rather than feature source material then I guess I don't mind them being discarded even without my notice... if it's happening. I was using Voxengo Gliss EQ because it has a nice real time frequency analyzer. I used schOpe because it's the highest res frequency viewer I have. My Voxengo Gliss settings were: all five nodes have the same settings: frequency: 80 bandwidth: 2.54 HZ (this seems to the steepest that doesn't cause an adjacent resonant peak) gain: 0 (this control doesn't seem pertinent with the Hi-Pass filter option) dynamics: 0 (I tried various settings... and left it at *0* in an effort to disengage the feature) edit to add: I just made a preset for Sonitus FX EQ as suggested... I used a hi pass filter at 80Hz with a Q of 1.4 on each node. I went lower than 80Hz but the was discernible energy dancing around at 20-30Hz. best regards, mike ill make some "eq-test session" in the next days - i will post my results here - btw. why do you wanna "totally" eliminate certain bands? actually i just removed some rumble from vocals with a 18db lowcut from sonnox and it worked fine - just curious why you wanna "kill em all" below some range - isnt i enough if its 36db per octave (600% less ) i am not so sure if a too clinical eqing makes a better mix? dont you risk to get a harsh and very "digital" soundin result (by applying those extreme settings to many tracks?) cheers
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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nprime
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 21:22:50
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue ORIGINAL: AT Sonitus, low and high shelves. If you need them sharper, you can stack the low-mid and hi-mid frequencies. Hey, THANKS! I never tried this... and so I loaded up a project and placed Voxengo Gliss EQ before and instance of Stillwell Audio's scHope. I used ScHope to zoom in to 20-100Hz with the hi res FFT size. I stacked up 5 nodes as hi pass filters in Voxengo Gliss EQ and found that I could seemingly eliminate any activity down below 40Hz... which scHope showed was still quite active with only a single hi-pass instance... without creating a obvious resonant peak. This is what I'm speaking/thinking about... I don't know enough about filters but it seems like there should be some easy way to ERADICATE any data below a certain frequency with a one click plugin while feeling confident you were not building a resonant peak near the cutoff. I made a preset of my 5 stack and unless I learn of some bad side effect intend to use it for a basic hi-pass on futurte work. I'm still curious, is the preset I just made analagous to a fifth order filter??? best regards, mike In Adobe Audition you can use spectral editing to eliminate any frequency or range of frequencies.
Listen Sonar 5PE Intel DP35DP, E6750, 3 GB, 80GB/320 GB Scope (6 DSP) w/A16 interface PadKontrol, Legacy Series MS20, EZDrummer.
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 22:45:54
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Thanks nprime I'll look at that. Tom, I want to eliminate ONLY the sub frequencies and ONLY on tacks that don't have any fundamental use of the frequencies I want to kill. I also want to use it with care on master tracks when working on acoustic (including drums) mixes. You may be right that it will lead to a digital sound but my thought about that is that it doesn't therefore compare to analog work because, in my experience, the deep low energy I'm speaking of disappears along the signal chain in an analog world... I think I'm only starting to realize how much low end gets into the *machine* and makes it thru the production process in a ITB workflow. Even though I may grab some subs via proximity effect or resonance... and that's part of the real acoustic event... I'm eager to minimize their effect for the most part. Take a look at these illustrations which I just made after taking AT's suggestion to try stacking nodes: So far I like what I'm hearing and what I'm seeing :-) But I'd like to learn more about what's happening and if there is some reason to think the stack causes a domino effect on the harmonics I have yet to recognize. best regards, mike
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nprime
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/13 23:47:50
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Listen Sonar 5PE Intel DP35DP, E6750, 3 GB, 80GB/320 GB Scope (6 DSP) w/A16 interface PadKontrol, Legacy Series MS20, EZDrummer.
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/14 00:04:29
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NeckHumbucker
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/14 00:14:50
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Mike, great animations. I first saw "stack of nodes" in "Telephone" preset of Sonitus EQ, and since then I have created low-cut presets for different use. As far as I can hear, it helps clear low-range and opens space for kick and bass. I've recently started using low-cut for reverb buses too, and high-cut sometimes. It takes the muddiness of mixes. Does anyone else do that?
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/14 00:33:06
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Thanks. :-) I trim the bass out of reverb, yes.
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nprime
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/14 02:25:51
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue I trim the bass out of reverb, yes. +1
Listen Sonar 5PE Intel DP35DP, E6750, 3 GB, 80GB/320 GB Scope (6 DSP) w/A16 interface PadKontrol, Legacy Series MS20, EZDrummer.
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Junski
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/14 04:43:01
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue Thanks nprime I'll look at that. Tom, I want to eliminate ONLY the sub frequencies and ONLY on tacks that don't have any fundamental use of the frequencies I want to kill. I also want to use it with care on master tracks when working on acoustic (including drums) mixes. You may be right that it will lead to a digital sound but my thought about that is that it doesn't therefore compare to analog work because, in my experience, the deep low energy I'm speaking of disappears along the signal chain in an analog world... I think I'm only starting to realize how much low end gets into the *machine* and makes it thru the production process in a ITB workflow. Even though I may grab some subs via proximity effect or resonance... and that's part of the real acoustic event... I'm eager to minimize their effect for the most part. Take a look at these illustrations which I just made after taking AT's suggestion to try stacking nodes: ... So far I like what I'm hearing and what I'm seeing :-) But I'd like to learn more about what's happening and if there is some reason to think the stack causes a domino effect on the harmonics I have yet to recognize. best regards, mike What you're doing, adding filters filter the same 'area' in series, is OK though, maybe it would be better to do this type filtering in one step. If you like to compare results got from your method against results got from a simple, up to 32/64 order HP filter, which I just prepared for testing purposes only, here you can download it. If you like to prepare your own then here's the schematic I used: http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/6/seschema2tx4.jpg This schema can be used for LP filter as well. Junski EDIT: I made couple comparisons against VoxengoGliss:
post edited by Junski - 2008/12/21 15:31:57
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Tom F
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/14 08:39:19
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VEEEERY COOL THREAD FOLKS!!! thanks a lot for the nice animations - its funny to "see" that the negative effects some eq´s have at high q do not really show in this examples - looks like some of the articles i read about that stuff might be old, wrong or maybe they did not take in consideration some new digital eq possibilities. actually i have been using high / and low cuts since quite while (Also for reverbs and other effects) but i never thought about the "extreme" usage suggested here (my maximum normally is really a 24bd lowcut and a 12 db highcut) maybe the q problems some digital eq´s have are not an inherent tech problem but only a result of wanting to emulate analog eqs - i dont know... eventually such radical eq settings like a 64lowcut might be a reason for the recently ever raising rms in some mixes (especially in electronic music) as i posted elswhere i have tracks that have -5db rms and still sound "nice" probably this could also come from an extremely cleaned low end which is ONLY filled with bass and kick... i am not saying that i have to participate in "rms-races" but i was really wondering what those mastering dudes do to the signal... so just let me resume: some here say that its a founded opinion that those butterworth monster eqs do have no strong q-resonance at the bending freq and that they do not deteriorate the harmonic structure of the rest (the second - i think is almost not possible..according to what i know about physics of sound - yet the effect could be maybe marginal and not relevant in a mix) links or more infos would be deeply appreciated! thanks
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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Junski
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/14 09:27:48
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Tom F
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/14 09:37:03
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/14 09:58:27
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Hi Junski, Are you saying you just wrote up a quick DSP plugin that had a 4th thru 64th order Butterworth filter design? I'm curious; what's the difference between doing the 5 nodes in series as I did and doing them as a packaged multi order filter? I fooled with the VST analyzer a bit I guess that's what you are using for you analysis and screen shots? What VST that's publicly available that has something like the 64th order Butterworth filter you made? I see less info about the type of filter and more often see a (to me) vauge Hz rating. Perhap's there's one that also has a nice FFT analysis built in? It seems like a specific Lo-Cut like this VST could be real useful. Finally, I thought even Butterworth filters made a resonant peak when they got too steep... am I wrong about that? thanks a bunch! mike edit to add: Ah SynthEdit. I have a license and really enjoy that program... but I sort of faded away from it when it got hung up with multicore processors... has it been updated yet? edit to add: Hi Junski, where did you find the Butterworth and Chebyshev HP Filter modules for Synth Edit?
post edited by mike_mccue - 2008/12/14 10:36:41
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Junski
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RE: Hi/Low Pass filter VST?
2008/12/14 10:24:04
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue Hi Junski, Are you saying you just wrote up a quick DSP plugin that had a 4th thru 64th order Butterworth filter design? I'm curious; what's the difference between doing the 5 nodes in series as I did and doing them as a packaged multi order filter? I fooled with the VST analyzer a bit I guess that's what you are using for you analysis and screen shots? What VST that's publicly available that has something like the 64th order Butterworth filter you made? I see less info about the type of filter and more often see a (to me) vauge Hz rating. Perhap's there's one that also has a nice FFT analysis built in? It seems like a specific Lo-Cut like this VST could be real useful. Finally, I thought even Butterworth filters made a resonant peak when they got too steep... am I wrong about that? thanks a bunch! mike And Chebyshev filter design too ... no, it wasn't me but Christian W. Budde who has done these components for Delphi VST package (and now for SynthEdit as well (I gave needed links to his site earlier in this thread + links to SynthEdit site). It actually took 'bout ½ hour to prepare a HP Filter VST plug-in I linked couple posts earlier (my comparisons against Gliss were made using it). Yes, I'm using C.W. Budde's VST Analyzer (a special version I got from Christian last year). Maybe the only effect in putting filters in series can be seen in picture I linked ... I personally have used six 6dB/oct HP filters in series in my standalone RIAA EQ implementation (subsonic filter there) for Max/MSP Runtime. Nothing strange showed up in frequency areas not showing in my plots. I noticed, it took a bit longer time for filter to settle when set to higher order. I think there's a FFT analyzer available as a SE module ... BTW, I didn't compare CPU usage at all ... if someone have checked this, does increasing the order make much for CPU usage? Junski
post edited by Junski - 2008/12/14 13:43:21
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