High Pass on a mic for guitar cabinets

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Dave Modisette
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2012/01/30 19:20:04 (permalink)

High Pass on a mic for guitar cabinets

I find myself using the high pass filter on my mixer when micing a guitar cabinet pretty much 100% of the time.  It starts it's cut at 100 hz.  How does everyone else feel about that.  I figure 100hz and down is bass guitar and kick drum territory.

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    wst3
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    Re:High Pass on a mic for guitar cabinets 2012/01/30 19:42:46 (permalink)
    When I recorded to tape I always applied both high and low pass filters to all my inputs, it was something I was almost certainly going to do anyway later on down the pike, and it let me cut hotter tracks! When I started recording to the computer I continued to use this practice and I really don't think it causes problems, but I'm not certain that it is as necessary as it used to be. My logic - you really want to record only what you want to record - that is, you don't need to record room noises that are outside the band of interest. Some will argue that a low pass filter robs you of some detail, but I don't think that's often the case - at least not with the gear I use! So band limiting once (and only once) fairly close tot he the recording media seems like a good idea. I also think it's important to use the simplest filter you can - I do my filtering in the analog domain, and use simple first order filters... By the same logic I also try to use microphone selection and placement to affect as much compression and equalization as possible, and therefore avoid tracking with compressors and equalizers.

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    AT
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    Re:High Pass on a mic for guitar cabinets 2012/01/30 20:45:40 (permalink)
    High pass is a life-saver.

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:High Pass on a mic for guitar cabinets 2012/01/30 21:27:12 (permalink)
    It is a good idea but no one has mentioned the slope of the high pass. That is equally important as the filter itself. If its 6db/ocatve then (for 100 Hz cutoff freq) at 50 Hz it is only going to 6 db down so therefore it may not be doing that much. One of my HP filters has got a 48 db/octave setting so that means there is nothing under 100 Hz will get through.

    The good thing about steeper slopes is that you can still get rid of a lot of rumble and sub sonic stuff but still have the filter curoff set quite low eg 80 Hz or under that even. Then you are not messing with the sound you are high passing at all. By the same token a 6 db/Oct slope is good when there is just too much bass end going on in something and you want to thin it out a little.

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    Middleman
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    Re:High Pass on a mic for guitar cabinets 2012/01/30 22:47:08 (permalink)
    I was going to mention slope as well. I had been high passing nearly all the time from the preamp at around 100Hz but the hardware fillter is extremely steep and so I started moving down to about 70Hz and, for some things, no filter because there may just be information down there that, even though it resides in the bass region, it might keep things full while the bass is resting. I can control the slope in software later and it adds body so I am moving toward a process of using less hardware filtering. I am liking the results. That said, there are times I high pass up to 250Hz on guitars. Depends on the track.

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    droddey
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    Re:High Pass on a mic for guitar cabinets 2012/01/30 22:48:13 (permalink)
    I also find that just moving the mic back helps as well, though I still will generally high pass on the way in as well. Moving the mic back, to me, makes for a more natural sound and also naturally restricts it more on the top and bottom end. I just don't find the 'micrometer off the grill' sound to be very natural, though I know a lot of people like it.

    I'll use the 80Hz high pass in my condensor and the 80Hz HP on my pre-amp together, which basically adds their slopes to create a higher order 80Hz filter. Though I still will sometimes use an EQ on the way in to get rid of more lows and highs and end up with something that's still balanced but pretty constrained and leaving lots of room for other things. Sometimes it's because the reverb pedal adds a lot more lows than the guitar itself is generating.

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    ChuckC
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    Re:High Pass on a mic for guitar cabinets 2012/01/31 00:04:58 (permalink)
    I don't HP on the way in, though I am not going through my board on the way in either so I really don't have that option.  I do find myself always using a Hp filter in the box on guitars.  Sometimes as low as 80 but more often than not for distorted tracks I am much higher (in the 100-140 range) before I am done & with a Q of about 1.6-1.7 which I believe lands me in that 6db per octave range.  Otherwise here is too much mudd. 
       For me and my distortion tones (tracked with a single 57) I am often finding a similar curve more or less ....  Hp at say 125 Q of 1.6, a bell shaped bump of about 2-3 db around 250, a dip of say -2 db after that, and then a High shelf from around 1000K and up  +2-3 db with a  Q of 2.0  and last but not least a  Lp filter that could be as high as 16k and Q'd to taste until the harsh highs stop pissing me off.  I may have other little cuts or boosts in there to but for the most part that's my eq on half my guitar tracks.   FWIW
    post edited by ChuckC - 2012/01/31 00:06:29

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    Rbh
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    Re:High Pass on a mic for guitar cabinets 2012/01/31 21:51:33 (permalink)
    I high pass guitars and especially rhodes. I usually end up near 200 - 250 hz though.

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    droddey
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    Re:High Pass on a mic for guitar cabinets 2012/01/31 22:54:19 (permalink)
    Sometimes I think it will depend on the type of bass you want. You can do the scooped out 2nd/3rd octave bass, which is mostly first octave plus midrange in the 400-800 range, and let the guitar low end most along to fall into that 2nd/3rd octave, and scoop it out more to let the bass mid-range through.

    Or you can do a low shelved or high passed bass that is not much in the first octave at all and is depending more on the 2nd/3rd octave and push the guitars up above that.

    You can low shelf the bass so that it's primarily in the 3rd octave (with often a broad boost in the lower mids) and let the guitars surround it on both sides.

    I think I hear all those fairly regularly. Maybe the last one is not so much used today perhaps, but it works really nicely in a lot of cases. Maybe it's done in metal a lot, I dunno, to let the chuggy guitars really do the lows.

    A lot of it will depend on where you pick the bass, since how many overtones you are generating kind of influences whether you can depend on the higher octave enough I think. Picking closer to the bridge to create a lot of overtones means that you may not miss the first or even second octave much at all (still there just shelved down a lot.) Or you can do a low-low only bass and pick near the bridge for a pretty pure note that's deep and rich but hardly calls any attention to itself, and would still leave lots of low end room for guitars because of the minimal overtones.

    Anyhoo, lot's of options.

    Dean Roddey
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