hockeyjx
I am curious to techniques about high/low end rolling off, and isolation of frequencies so each instrument sticks out.
I would think the high and low roll off is more during the mastering stage?
Any advice for singer-songwriter and/or rock music in general terms?
I am reading some articles about isolation, and do some folks on here have presets for the EQ's that have been included with Sonar the past few versions?
hockey: Definitely post questions like this in the techniques forum so they don't get lost here. I hang there quite often these days. When I don't answer something over there, either someone gave enough of an answer or my answer may have been too opinionated or subjective so I don't say a word. I'm also more selective these days as to who I spend time helping because the forum and some of its members have come back to bite me a few times. So those brainiacs that know better than I can lead the charge. But if I see you post there, I'll always try and give you an answer.
Since you posted it here...I personally see no reason to make you post in the techniques forum before you get an answer. My opinion is (and I mean none of the people that posted here any disrespect) post where you want. If the Sonar mods want your thread moved, they will move it. If it bumps someone down the list...so be it. It's happened to me enough in my years being here. It goes with the territory of being on a forum where things move quickly. This is why it really is better in techniques.....but I could care less. If I see it and know the answer, I answer no matter where the question is posted.
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That said, after 2 paragraphs about where to post, here's a nice long read and a few answers for you. :) High passing and low passing go for everything, not just mastering. The key to all of it is how you record your sounds or what samples you use if you use samples. For example, if we use an 808 sampled drum kit, there's not a lot of high passing needed in a kit like that. You may need to low pass it though because it's synthetic and high endy sounding.
See, depending on mic placement as well as the amount of eq used while recording or when using samples, that will determine if HP or LP needs to be used. You don't just do it all the time. That's the same as someone posting a question asking:
"what eq settings do you guys use when you master?"
And some joker will come on here and say "always boost 55 Hz so your bile ducts quake, remove -6 dB of 300 Hz, cut 4k by -2 dB, totally remove 12k because that frequency reminds me of the sound my cat makes when I pull his tail"
The answer is you don't add or take something away because someone tells you and you don't add or take away if something doesn't need it. Your job as an engineer is to know when something needs to be altered as well as how much it should be altered. You see, every sound and situation is different. Even though I'm a rocker myself, I can't tell you "high pass your kick drum from 60 Hz on down" if the kick drum YOU use may be thin and may actually NEED a little 60 Hz punch. Or, you may want to push 75-80 Hz and have less low end "boom" to your kick.
Setting up your kick allows you to set up your bass guitar. Meaning, a good way to pre-plan to help masking and un-wanted tweaking is....if you want a clicky kick drum, you can use a bass with more boom in it. If you use a bass with more high end clack to it, you can use a kick drum with more boom. This situation dictates where you'll do more high passing.
But without hearing your instruments, I can't tell you where to high pass your bass guitar or if you even need to until I hear the sound YOU printed, understand? I'd be peeing in the wind and you know how that can turn out. ;) Let's take a look at three culprits that just about always need a high pass....kick, bass and driven guitar.
If you are going for a Metallica clicky type kick and you found a sample that was close to spot on, you're going to high pass it less or maybe not at all compared to a kick you would use for say Steely Dan or maybe a Doobie Brothers kit. See what I mean? The other side of the coin is, if you used a boomy bass guitar in the song where you had the Metallica clicky kick, you could get away with more boom in that bass...so it would need more high passing. But if that bass you used sounded like Geddy Lee or something like Chris Squire from YES might use, you're not going to high pass that bass anywhere near where you would if the bass sounded like John Paul Jones. Ya see, it depends on the sound. Normally, you would just about always high pass a kick and a bass guitar. But if those sounds are super thin to begin with, you might really make them sound thin with the wrong eq choice.
Same with guitars. I can't tell you how much to low pass a guitar if I can't hear it. It might be loaded with mids or low mids instead of high end, so a low pass may not be the answer. Most times, removing excessive mids or low mids brightens up a guitar so you may not have to do much low passing...but it depends on the sound. If removing those mids and low mids made the tone harsh or abrasive, you would low pass it to control some of the sizzle.
Speaking of that, a tone may not need low passing...it may need an actual high end frequency lowered or even removed that might be a problem. See, you have to be able to tell when there is an excessive treble frequency that should be removed or curbed, when a low pass can remove a little sizzle in the right places or when you may want to use shelving etc. All this stuff depends on the sound. There are NO presets that will do this accurately.
Every preset made was made with another sound that wasn't yours. So it's impossible to even use most of them. But as far as tricks or techniques with the whole high pass/low pass/shelving thing....yeah there are lots of things you can do, but you first have to determine whether or not you need that stuff to begin with. Like for example, when I hear a guitar tone, I know whether or not a specific frequency should be altered or a light low pass may do the trick. I don't want to remove the good high end in the tone either, ya know what I mean?
That's the chance you take with low pass. It's going to take out your target frequency and above and sometimes, you remove the good stuff that you may need there. The same with high passing a low end instrument. If you high pass a driven guitar at 180 Hz on down where realistically that guitar rumble is at 120 Hz (which is where they usually rumble) you just killed some cool low end that could enhance that guitar. Or even better, if you just listened to me and high passed a driven guitar at 120 and that guitar didn't have enough 120 and below in it that was worth dialing out, you *may* have made it thinner than it was depending on how much you dialed out.
The key to all of this is the correct sound selection before you record and then knowing what frequencies to remove that may not be in that instrument. For example, a properly tracked bass guitar could have frequencies from 50 Hz (depending on if you wanted it to push that low) all the way up to 4 k. From 4 k on up, you could totally remove and you would not change the sound of that bass. You'd be removing frequencies that don't normally show up in a bass by low passing 4 k to 20 k...which is pretty much hiss and stuff that doesn't need to be there.
The same with a snare drum. You most likely will NOT hear 150 Hz on down in a snare, so we don't need to keep them in there. So we could high pass from 150 on down. You probably won't use 12 k to 20 k on a driven guitar, so you could low pass from 12 k on up to remove a little sizzle. You don't need low end in hi-hats, so you could high pass from say, 400 Hz on down (depending on the hats and what you want them to sound like)
Keep in mind, there are Q points that adjust how much you notice the effect of high passing and low passing. If you use a Sonitus EQ, this is really good at doing that stuff. The lower the Q, for high pass and low pass, the more it LOWERS your target and above/below. The higher the Q, the more you RAISE those frequencies.
This works a bit different than the way you use the Q in peak/dip mode. In peak/dip, a smaller number Q gives you more sound where a higher number Q tightens/narrows the sound and will eventually hone in on a specific frequency if you increase it enough. Try it out and you'll see what I mean. Grab a Sonitus and set the first band for high pass. Raise and lower the Q and you'll see what it does. Have it on an instrument and you'll HEAR what it does as well. Then change the mode to peak/dip, raise the level on that frequency and then mess with the Q.
If you use the Pro Channel EQ in X1/X2, this is also great for that as you have your "Slope" controls that give you from 6 dB to 48 dB which will control how much you hear or don't hear from a high pass or low pass. These work the other way around though from the Sonitus EQ when high passing and low passing. The lower the slope number on the PC EQ, the MORE frequencies are heard. The higher the number, the more it rolls off and takes frequencies away. Try it, you'll see and hear what I mean and will understand this a bit more.
Try to be a cutter not a booster until you can really work with eq and know what to do and when to do it. Boosting can be the death of you. If something sounds thin and trebly to you, don't add bass...curb treble. If something sounds boomy, don't add treble, curb lows. If something sounds congested and mid-rangey, curb the mids, don't add bass or high end.
Hope some of this helps. Good luck man! :)
-Danny