Hints and tips for composition workflow?

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Kylotan
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2009/07/09 16:43:36 (permalink)

Hints and tips for composition workflow?

I mostly use Sonar as a tool for composition, loading up a standard template, maybe dropping in some drum loops, and then record short guitar/keyboard phrases or chord sequences over them, multi-tracking and layering harmonies as appropriate. I might come up with 15 or 20 of these short parts, and then have to decide which ones to use. Typically I spend a lot of time copying and pasting sections and dragging unused sections to the end of the track, which can be a bit laborious, especially when you forgot to select one of the 10 tracks and everything gets unaligned. There's a lot of moving parts around to see which ones flow well into others and this is pretty fiddly when working with multiple tracks.

Eventually, once I've settled on the running order, I bounce it down to a stereo track and import that into a new project, which is free of all the muted takes and unused sections. Then I re-record each part in a single performance, using the imported track as a guide to work from.

That's what I do currently - it works, and gets the job done. But it can be time-consuming, especially when moving entire sections around. That sort of thing is easier in something like FLStudio when you combine several instruments into one sequence and can move the whole sequence around easily, or in Ableton where you can choose which clips to trigger at the next measure to instantly improvise at the section level.

So my question is, for those who compose using Sonar, how do you make the most of your workflow? Are there any tips - Sonar-specific or otherwise - that help you move smoothly and effectively from musical ideas in your head to a finished track?
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    Spaceduck
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    RE: Hints and tips for composition workflow? 2009/07/09 20:07:38 (permalink)
    That sounds a lot like the way I operate, and I agree it's really time-consuming and potentially dangerous when moving parts around (especially when you have tempo & meter changes... fuggedaboudit).

    One method that's a little safer is instead of moving parts around (cut & paste), I like to use "Insert > Time/Measures" or the opposite "Edit > Delete > Delete Hole". That way you don't have to worry about things getting mis-aligned. For example suppose I start by recording a verse & a chorus. Then I decide I need a bridge between them. Instead of moving the chorus back, I'll position my cursor between the verse & chorus, then insert 16 measures or whatever. Minor difference, but like I said it's slightly safer when you're dealing with lots of tempo or meter changes, etc.

    I've never tried your method of mixing it all down & using that as a guide. That sound really interesting, but I'm guessing it only works if you really nail down your song structure first. I'm much too flaky for that; I'm always adding new parts and changing things right up to the last minute. So what I do is instead of starting a new project, I keep the same one but archive the guide tracks and move them to the bottom of the track pile. That way I can always exhume them if I need to do some major alterations. What can I say... I don't throw anything away But sometimes it comes in handy.

    I'll be the first to admit that my workflow is inefficient, messy, confusing and hazardous. What I would love is if Sonar would make it easy to import tracks between projects. That way we could record the verse in one project, the chorus in another, the solo section in another. Then pull them all together and voila. I know Sonar lets you drag clips from one project to another, but I don't think there's a way of pulling in all the plugins, tempo changes, envelopes, etc.

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    #2
    bayoubill
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    RE: Hints and tips for composition workflow? 2009/07/09 21:09:41 (permalink)
    It's completely different with me I guess. I hear songs/melodies that kinda pop into my head at weird times. Right when I wake up or driving down the street. I've been transcribing what I hear just like copying a recording. The songs mostly put together before I record anything. I wish I could get the same sound I am hearing to the recordings. I have managed to get the basic idea and feel though.
    post edited by bayoubill - 2009/07/09 21:33:49

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    #3
    Kylotan
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    RE: Hints and tips for composition workflow? 2009/07/11 17:54:54 (permalink)
    Spaceduck - you know, it never occurred to me to archive tracks. It's just a feature I've never really thought about using, but I'll start now. That's exactly the sort of thing I'm after really - the optional stuff in Sonar that helps you along.

    Bayoubill - I admire your ability to do that. I personally can't hold a song in my mind that long, and absolutely no musical ideas pop into my head at all - all the tunes I create come from very deliberate experimentation, typically recording for a few minutes and then extracting the usable bits. Before I had recording software I would just notate a section on paper before moving on.
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    Mamabear
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    RE: Hints and tips for composition workflow? 2009/07/11 21:22:11 (permalink)
    For the composition, I usually spend a lot of time getting the chord progression down before I record anything. (well, except when I want to get a short idea down quickly...then I'll just record it in Sonar, give it a name (or at least the date) and then come back to it later.) But when I'm ready to really do the song, I work out the chord progression on paper first. Then I basically know where the song is going before I start. I still may record it piecemeal, but I've got a direction at least.
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    Kylotan
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    RE: Hints and tips for composition workflow? 2009/07/12 05:54:14 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Mamabear

    ...then I'll just record it in Sonar, give it a name (or at least the date) and then come back to it later.)

    That's another issue I contend with, project naming. I often end up with projects just containing one chord progression or one tune, that sort of thing. At a later date I often merge these in with other projects of a similar nature to build a whole composition, but it does mean that I have a lot of similarly-named projects that I have to dig through to find parts of interest. I try to name projects of this nature with the time signature, tempo, and key, which helps a bit. It would be handy if there was some sort of tool that listed all the Cakewalk projects in a directory and gave you these details at a glance.
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    Mamabear
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    RE: Hints and tips for composition workflow? 2009/07/12 07:52:05 (permalink)
    Well, if you do it that way, then you could put similar snippets in separate folders, i.e. "4/4, 120 bpm, C"

    Although snippets could easily be fit into other songs in other keys, so I'm not sure if the key is that important. I've even drastically changed tempos before and come up with a whole new song. (in fact, I sometimes changes the time signature in a song, but that's a different story).
    #7
    Kylotan
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    RE: Hints and tips for composition workflow? 2009/07/12 07:58:14 (permalink)
    Yeah, some keys can easily be transposed to others, a 60bpm part can work in a 120bpm song, etc. There's no 'one size fits all' approach so just trying to be descriptive in the name is about the best I can do, I think.
    #8
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