Helpful ReplyHooking up an external compressor to Sonar.

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mikebeam
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2018/03/07 22:10:54 (permalink)

Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar.

I just got my first hardware compressor. FMR RNC 1773. My audio interface is an m-track quad. I'm having trouble getting it all hooked up...

What I'm hoping to do is experiment running it at different points. It's pretty straightforward running from a mixer into the RNC to the inputs of the m-track. I'd like to try routing a signal that's been recorded so I can experiment with the settings...

Is it possible to use the inserts in the back. Leave the unit off and record, then turn it on and somehow have the signal routed through it?

Any help is appreciated. .

Thanks!
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    ∞ 2018/03/07 23:30:29 (permalink)
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    post edited by mister happy - 2018/03/10 14:53:40


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    kday
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 00:21:14 (permalink)
    All depends on what compressor, many hardware compressors can't be replace in sound quality by digital VST compressors. They may come close but you can still hear the organic analog sound quality, compared to the digital sound. But a good engineer and a good digital VST can close the gap in a mix, but outboard equipment will always give a bigger sound than VSTs because you process the mix outside the box, and that usually articulates and widens what you were able to achieve inside the box with VSTs, when you process mixes with hardware equipment.
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    mikebeam
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 00:21:23 (permalink)
    Great thanks. I understand it's probably obsolete, but I still wanted to give it a go... I got it super cheap!

    This method works, but I was hoping to use the "inserts" on the back of the m-track. The manual for the mtrack quad shows a compressor going into the back of the unit. I was hoping to get it functioning like a plug-in, where I could loop a section and play with parameters. Does that make sense?
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    mikebeam
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 00:25:12 (permalink)
    @kday - that's exactly why I figured it was worth a go. I want to be able to have experience with both so I can form my own opinions! Seems like people are pretty divided on the VST vs hardware thing.

    With that said... VSTs get +1 for me in the ease of use category!!! :) Hopefully I can get this thing working the way I want it...
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    John T
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 00:31:08 (permalink)
    In the effects bin of the track you want to compress, right click, and choose the option "Insert External Insert".
     
    In the plugin window you'll see, you can choose any hardware output and any hardware input. Connect that output to the in on the compressor, and your selected input to the out on the compressor.
     
    You also need setup the latency, so look up External Insert in the help menu for that. It works fairly well (most of the time).

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    John T
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 00:36:17 (permalink)
    mikebeam
    @kday - that's exactly why I figured it was worth a go. I want to be able to have experience with both so I can form my own opinions! Seems like people are pretty divided on the VST vs hardware thing.



    ... which seems to me like a false binary. If you like it, and can get good results with it, then it's not obsolete. FMR are still in business making and selling these things, so obviously someone's buying and using them.

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    mikebeam
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 00:51:46 (permalink)
    John T
    In the effects bin of the track you want to compress, right click, and choose the option "Insert External Insert".
     
    In the plugin window you'll see, you can choose any hardware output and any hardware input. Connect that output to the in on the compressor, and your selected input to the out on the compressor.
     
    You also need setup the latency, so look up External Insert in the help menu for that. It works fairly well (most of the time).




    I inserted the External Insert into my effects bin - hooked up the out to the compressor and then plugged the compressor into the back of the unit - however it doesn't give me options for the back inserts on the dropdown menu - it only lists the typical inserts on the front that I would have for say - inserting a mic.
    #8
    The Maillard Reaction
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    ∞ 2018/03/08 01:00:38 (permalink)
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    post edited by mister happy - 2018/03/10 14:54:00


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    John T
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 01:01:19 (permalink)
    Right. I don't know anything about that interface. But in practical terms, is there any particular reason to use the back inserts? Why not use the front channels? An input is an input, generally speaking, and if you want to use this thing in Sonar, then you need to use the inputs Sonar can see.

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    ∞ 2018/03/08 01:03:41 (permalink)
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    post edited by mister happy - 2018/03/10 14:54:13


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    John T
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 01:03:56 (permalink)
    mister happy

    Don’t worry about delay comp as the RNC has an all analog signal path so there is no delay (as long as your basic system delay comp is working properly)




    This is incorrect. If you are taking audio from within Sonar, out to the compressor, and then back into Sonar, then there will be latency.

    http://johntatlockaudio.com/
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    ∞ 2018/03/08 01:07:15 (permalink)
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    post edited by mister happy - 2018/03/10 14:54:29


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    John T
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 01:22:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Leadfoot 2018/03/08 01:30:56
    I've got better things to do than get into a pointless argument, so I'll just state again for the record that this is incorrect and bad advice, and leave it there. Best of luck to mikebeam. I'm a fan of using external hardware myself, and unlike other posters, have done it considerably more recently than 15 years ago.

    http://johntatlockaudio.com/
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    ∞ 2018/03/08 01:36:12 (permalink)
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    post edited by mister happy - 2018/03/10 14:54:44


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    The Maillard Reaction
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    ∞ 2018/03/08 01:52:00 (permalink)
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    post edited by mister happy - 2018/03/10 14:54:58


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    Kev999
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 02:04:50 (permalink)
    mikebeam
    ...FMR RNC 1773...
    ...I'd like to try routing a signal that's been recorded so I can experiment with the settings...

     
    I've got one of these units. I find it's nice to use when recording acoustic 12-string guitar. I probably wouldn't use it in a re-amping situation though, but ok if you want to experiment.

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    John T
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 02:31:41 (permalink)
    mister happy
    Having said that it occurs to me that using the inserts on the m track may or may not add extra dac and adc stages. Hopefully it doesn’t but If it does add extra digital conversions then the loop will have a couple ms of delay that SONARs external insert delay comp can compensate for,

    So we got there in the end.

    http://johntatlockaudio.com/
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    ∞ 2018/03/08 03:04:33 (permalink)
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    post edited by mister happy - 2018/03/10 14:55:11


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    The Maillard Reaction
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    ∞ 2018/03/08 03:04:33 (permalink)
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    post edited by mister happy - 2018/03/10 14:55:21


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    John T
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 11:14:59 (permalink)
    .

    http://johntatlockaudio.com/
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    mikebeam
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 13:15:24 (permalink)
    So the advantage of hooking it up through the back is that 1) it's cleaner in my studio space. 2) it leaves the other inputs available for use.

    I'm just curious because the Mtrack quad clearly has a diagram with a compressor plugged into the back... I'm just really confused why that diagram would show that if it's not possible...
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    ∞ 2018/03/08 13:53:35 (permalink)
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    post edited by mister happy - 2018/03/10 14:55:36


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    mikebeam
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 13:58:20 (permalink)
    Maybe I missed it above? Any idea how to do it?
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    AT
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 14:11:55 (permalink)
    Use the inserts and compress going in and out. Control the effect via the hardware _ you should be able to null or bypass. I suppose you’ll have to use 3/4 for monitoring so you can hear the comps effect on the source.
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    mikebeam
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 14:48:09 (permalink)
    Ok Thanks Mr. Happy and AT...  
     
    I'm not using TRS cables - just TS cables. Does that have something to do with it? I'll buy some TRS cables...
     
    Here's what I've done (I'm going to be overly explicit here) - which I think is what you both are saying - I've got a project open in Sonar with a mono guitar part that was recorded with a mic to an amp through a preamp into the M-track.
     
    I've plugged a TS cable into the output 3 of the M-Track (output 1 and 2 say "monitors" and are plugged into my monitors). That cable goes to the "in" of the RNC under the section labeled "Left (or mono)".
     
    I've plugged a TS cable from the "out" of the RNC (Left side) and plugged it into the M-Track "Insert 1"
     
    The I go into Sonar to the effects bin - "Insert External Insert" - I put the Send at "Driver 3" Mono and - here's where the problem is - On the return menu, I only see the front drivers in the dropdown menu... 
     
    Does that make sense? What am I doing wrong?!
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    ∞ 2018/03/08 15:00:08 (permalink)
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    post edited by mister happy - 2018/03/10 14:55:45


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    mikebeam
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 15:11:27 (permalink)
    OK - I think I'm getting some clarity of the problem here...  I tried it with the m-tracks 1,2,3,4 input and it works.
     
    I would like to pursue the idea of using the hardware "inserts" on the m-track and RNC. Can you help me through that? 
     
    I'm going to buy a "Y" TRS cable... Is that the missing link? Is there something else about those insert connectors that I'm missing?
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    ∞ 2018/03/08 15:15:28 (permalink)
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    post edited by mister happy - 2018/03/10 14:55:54


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    mikebeam
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    Re: Hooking up an external compressor to Sonar. 2018/03/08 15:18:58 (permalink)
    Another clarifying question - are those inserts in the back only able to be used at the recording stage? Meaning before the signal even goes into sonar? I was assuming that I could plug it in there, record a dry signal in sonar, and then play with the parameters after recording - perhaps I'm going about this all wrong and I should focus on the signal before it reaches Sonar?
     
    #30
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