Hoping for a stable Sonar.

I have been using Sonar from the Cakewalk days. I then went over to Logic.I crossgraded from Logic Audio Gold Version 4 to Sonar 3. Upgraded to Sonar 5. A few crashes and I ran back to Logic 5. I again upgraded Sonar to version 7. Hoping still to get a stable version. Some more crashes and I went to a Mac with Protools 7 and Logic Pro 8. I really wanted to stick with Sonar mainly because I can build a good PC. I again upgraded until I am now on version X2. I am still using Protools 10.3.5 and Logic Pro 9. I just went and load a session in X2. Inserted Waves EQ 10 and the whole Sonar X2 GUI turned white. I am desperately trying not to upgrade to Protools 11. Protools is very stable on my system. I just need a stable Sonar. That's all.

Sorry for the duplicate post.

Why not just delete the 32 or 64 bit Wave plugins before Sonar finds out about them ?

I use waves 64 bit plugs all the time in X2 Producer with no problems, with the exception of side chaining.

jscomposer: I'm not sure I understand your recommendation. If Waves will install the 64-bit plugs, then why would I want to jbridge to the 32-bit versions? Bridging for me isn't successful due to the performance hit I take. I'm limited to about 20-24 tracks with about 2 plug-ins on each before I start getting drop-outs. I agree with your PT and Logic observations. 

Paul P: Waves installs a single WaveShell.dll, which includes all plug-ins, even though you are only licensed to "see" specific ones (unless you own both Mercury and SSL4000 bundles). But in essence, that's what I'm saying, too. Hide the 32-bit version of the WaveShell.dll, but you get the option to do this upon installation by specifying the directory you want the 32-bit WaveShell to install. Waves said that should work. It did for me until I needed to install Wavelab 32-bit and let it find them, for some reason.

There's more to this, but the long-term solution is to wait until every plug-in you use is updated to 64-Bit, and you no longer have to use 32-Bit DAW's to support legacy plugs. I'm waiting for Algorithmix RED and Flux Alchemist to be updated, and then I'm forever parting ways with 32-bit plugs. I'll be quite content!   

stingie@tstt.net.tt


I have Protools and Sonar on the same PC. PT is still 32 bit. I cannot delete it.

Move them to a folder which Sonar doesn't see when scanning for plugins?

That "should" solve the issue. 

jscomposer, even though they may work, bridging is not supported by Waves or the DAW makers, so if you run into issues there, you're on your own. 

Anyway, if I wanted to do that, I'd just install 32-Bit X2, which is possible, I just prefer to evolve where I can. Unfortunately, in this case, Waves and Sonar didn't work together here, it seems. Or this scenario wasn't duly tested. 

There are some plugins Waves makes that are really good, such as the SSL4000, Tapes, Tube, and Transistor, and even some of the Specifically-modeled plugins. But the ones that come with Sonar are pretty good. Some are hard to figure out (Perfect Space), but others are easy and sound great.

The fix is simple and has been mentioned. Do not include your plug folder in a plug scan. I'll cover all that in a minute. I use both Sonar 32 and 64 so I have 32 and 64 bit plugs. I use Sonar 32 because it doesn't crash anywhere near as much as 64 and I still use some older DX plugs that I can't do without.

Anyway, I have NEVER had a problem with any version of Waves in Sonar. I've been a Waves customer about as long as I've been a Cakewalk/Sonar customer. I started with Waves when they had a HASP dongle driver that plugged into your printer port. I still have it and the Waves 3.0 plugs. LOL! Anyway, the only issues I've had with Waves are the following and I will address each fix.

1. GUI never working right in Sonar only: In Waves 5 or 6, you had to open a VST plugin 2 times in order to see it. You'd get an empty plug screen the first time you opened a Waves VST. You'd have to delete the plug from your FX bin and re-insert it. Then you'd see the GUI. This forced me to use the DX versions way more because they worked flawlessly.

2. Lagging GUI controls in Waves plugs when used in Sonar: In Waves 6 or 7, the fix was to just move whatever control you were messing with slowly. Trying to move too fast would make the control not move at all or just sort of bounce and wobble.

3. Waves leaving registry information behind that stops you from using updated versions: This one hit me pretty hard this week. I've been using Waves 9 for the longest time. I don't pay attention to their updates often because it's a pain in the @ss uninstalling and reinstalling them. I've had a crash in Wavelab while using version 9 that I never had before. I thought the latest might help me out. Needless to say, it didn't but I don't feel it was time wasted...errr...wait, yes I do.

I uninstalled, removed folders, deleted registry items and did everything correctly. The install went fine. Sonar X1 and X2 don't see the plugs at all and a message keeps popping up mentioning "Wave Shell 9.0" still being associated. Only Sonar does this. Every other program worked perfectly. I totally uninstall again, remove registry and folder items again. This time I go deeper into the registry. Sure enough, there were over 1000 entries showing 9.0 being locked into Sonar. Yep you guessed it, one at a time I'm sitting there deleting registry items.

Waves has as much registry related junk as Kontakt. Both companies should be shot for dumping that much into any registry and leaving their garbage behind upon uninstalling. You know something, the more I find out about what these companies do to our systems behind the scenes, the more I wish I could sue them for over-charging as well as corrupting my system. Is it that freakin' hard to create something that removes all the reg keys upon uninstalling? Who pays me for the time I spent (over an hour) removing this horsesh!t? Sorry to vent, it just makes me sick. I can't afford to lose an hour of time let alone 15 minutes with the work I do here.

Anyway, removing all references to Waves 9.0 fixed me up with all versions of Sonar. Now some 32 and 64 bit plug info for you if you're curious...

When using Sonar 32, I like to install all my VST's into my program files (86) Cakewalk Vstplugins folder. However, if you will be using 64 bit plugs in Sonar 64, it's not a good idea to do this. So I install any plugs that will have 64 bit brothers in another folder that will NOT be scanned by Sonar 64, This should totally stop any issues anyone may be having. 3rd party 32 bit plugs in a folder, all 64 bit  plugs in your program files (64) Cake Vstplugins folder and you shouldn't have any issues running both versions. You just can't allow a plug directory to be scanned in both versions of Sonar. 

-Danny

CCleaner has a nice registry cleaning feature for removing entries that are no longer being used... http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner

Not sure if it will definitely help in that situation, but worth a shot for future software uninstalls.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com - SONAR X2 Power! - http://garrigus.com/?SonarX2Power
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor
* Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq
* Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://newtechreview.com/?NewTechReview

Paul P
I've never trusted the idea of registry cleaners. 
How do they know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, what is still being referenced and what isn't ?
An error on their part could be pretty disastrous.

Always back up the registry first, just in case.


Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com - SONAR X2 Power! - http://garrigus.com/?SonarX2Power
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor
* Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq
* Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://newtechreview.com/?NewTechReview