House of Mirrors

Author
Larry Jones
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 810
  • Joined: 2007/10/11 02:45:33
  • Location: Southern California
  • Status: offline
2018/10/21 23:10:56 (permalink)

House of Mirrors

My one man band, 9-Car Pileup, really made a mess of this one. Enjoy!
 
NOV. 18, 2018: There's a new rough mix here, based on everybody's great suggestions. I'm trying to get a better guitar solo and a better bass part, so I'm not calling it finished yet.
 
Nov 29, 2018: As described much later in this thread (Post #23), here's the final mix. Thanks to all!
post edited by Larry Jones - 2018/11/30 06:02:34

Sonar Platinum 2017.10 • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
#1

28 Replies Related Threads

    eph221
    Max Output Level: -28.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4653
    • Joined: 2014/12/22 05:06:50
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/21 23:43:41 (permalink)
    Lot's of ear candy in this one.  Entertaining!

    *Q-TIPS ARE FUZZY!!*
     Is a lumineer a new dental appliance?  
     
    i7 2.5 ghz
    32GB RAM
    WINDOWS 10
    My Ass
    Cubase 9.5
     
    #2
    bapu
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 85953
    • Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
    • Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/21 23:52:58 (permalink)
    That was a rollicking good time Larry.  
    #3
    bjornpdx
    Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 748
    • Joined: 2010/12/10 11:41:29
    • Location: Portland, Oregon
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/22 02:53:26 (permalink)
    Larry,
    Rockin' along song. I liked it.  Clever lyrics too.




    Bjorn
    soundcloud.com/orygun
    www.bjornfredrickson.com
    https://store.cdbaby.com/Artist/BjornFredrickson
     
    Purrfect Audio Pro Studio, RME UCX
    Cakewalk by Bandlab,  Studio One,  Reaper
    #4
    Larry Jones
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 810
    • Joined: 2007/10/11 02:45:33
    • Location: Southern California
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/22 03:43:39 (permalink)
    David, Ed, Bjorn - Thank you for listening, guys. I haven't been in the SONAR or Song forums much lately, so I wasn't too sure if anyone was still here. The shutdown last year knocked me sideways and I spent months auditioning other DAWS, only to learn that SONAR was still alive. I haven't moved over to the Bandlab version yet but I'm still a Splat user, although now when something doesn't work right I have to face the possibility that it's not just a setting that I have wrong, but a FATAL FLAW in non-updatable SONAR.
     
    This was my first time using Session Horns (the hundred-dollar basic version), and I know nothing about horn arrangement, so I'm sure it's -- as I mentioned above -- a mess. I just layed the brass onto an old unfinished track. Now I'm kind of liking it so I may have to go through and see if I can play the other parts better.

    Sonar Platinum 2017.10 • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
    #5
    Freddy J
    Max Output Level: -52 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2334
    • Joined: 2009/03/09 21:05:54
    • Location: Lutz, FL
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/23 00:35:43 (permalink)
    Luv it!!!  A great "house rockin' song.  The horns sound great as do the vocals.  Heck, it all sounds good including the mix.
    #6
    Larry Jones
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 810
    • Joined: 2007/10/11 02:45:33
    • Location: Southern California
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/23 05:22:15 (permalink)
    Freddy J, you are too kind, and I love you for it.

    Sonar Platinum 2017.10 • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
    #7
    Wookiee
    Rrrrugh arah-ah-woof?
    • Total Posts : 13284
    • Joined: 2007/01/16 06:19:43
    • Location: Akahaocwora - Village Yoh Kay
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/23 13:27:13 (permalink)
    Nice fun tune rocking along nicely, as for the move to Cakewalk by Bandlab Larry, no learning curve just improvements grab it while you can.

    Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
    Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
    Primary, i7 8700K 16Gigs Ram, 3x500gb SSD's 2TB Backup HHD Saffire Pro 40. Win 10 64Bit
    Secondary  i7 4790K, 32GB Ram, 500Gb SSD OS/Prog's, 1TB Audio, 1TB Samples HHD AudioBox USB, Win 10 64Bit
    CbB, Adam's A7x's - Event 20/20's, Arturia V6, Korg Digital Legacy, Softube Modular, Arturia Keylab-88, USB-MidiSport 8x8 
    #8
    Wayfarer
    Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 767
    • Joined: 2017/07/15 02:32:25
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/23 13:38:37 (permalink)
    That was really good Larry. I think the horns could come down a smidgen, for what it's worth. Nice job man.
     
    Bill
    #9
    Larry Jones
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 810
    • Joined: 2007/10/11 02:45:33
    • Location: Southern California
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/23 18:11:05 (permalink)
    Wookiee - Yeah, I've read all about it, and with Noel and the others on board I'm sure it will be fine. I have the Bandlab Assistant installed, and I guess I'm waiting for the day when my Platinum goes south for good, or the Bandlab version adds something I can't live without. I didn't consider that I might have to "get it while I can." Wouldn't my face be red if suddenly it was no longer available?
    Wayfarer - Thanks for listening. I believe you're right about the horns. There will be another mix, and they will be less prominent. I was just excited to hear them, and I wanted to hear them LOUDER! It's the rocker in me.

    Sonar Platinum 2017.10 • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
    #10
    Wookiee
    Rrrrugh arah-ah-woof?
    • Total Posts : 13284
    • Joined: 2007/01/16 06:19:43
    • Location: Akahaocwora - Village Yoh Kay
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/24 09:34:49 (permalink)
    Already added some nice new features Larry might be worth a visit to the main forum to have a read in the stickies at the top

    Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
    Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
    Primary, i7 8700K 16Gigs Ram, 3x500gb SSD's 2TB Backup HHD Saffire Pro 40. Win 10 64Bit
    Secondary  i7 4790K, 32GB Ram, 500Gb SSD OS/Prog's, 1TB Audio, 1TB Samples HHD AudioBox USB, Win 10 64Bit
    CbB, Adam's A7x's - Event 20/20's, Arturia V6, Korg Digital Legacy, Softube Modular, Arturia Keylab-88, USB-MidiSport 8x8 
    #11
    emeraldsoul
    Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1836
    • Joined: 2009/01/02 23:16:43
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/27 04:06:27 (permalink)
    more bass please? Everything else bops right along. Your slapback vocal is great. The horns cut it just fine. Guitars jangle and cruise. Hi-hat is solid groove city. It could all use more foundation.
     
    suh-weet!
     
    -Tom
     
     

    A work in regress:
    www.studiusinterruptus.com
     
    Cornbread - video   audio
    A Very, Very Troubled Soul - video   
    Kilometers Davis - video   audio
    Mayans (Face in the Crowd) - video  audio
    The Sweet Slow Fade - video
    #12
    Larry Jones
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 810
    • Joined: 2007/10/11 02:45:33
    • Location: Southern California
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/29 01:20:14 (permalink)
    emeraldsoul - The bass is mixed that way because it's a synth played by me and I am not good enough on keys to pull it off. However, I am looking for a real bass player to fix it for me before I mix it again. Thanks for listening!

    Sonar Platinum 2017.10 • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
    #13
    Lynn
    Max Output Level: -14 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 6112
    • Joined: 2003/11/12 18:36:16
    • Location: Kansas City, MO
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/10/29 17:40:56 (permalink)
    Larry, I cut my teeth on this style of music, so I really enjoyed the visit to memory lane.  I use that version of Session Horns, too, and when you get used to it, I think you'll really appreciate that program.   Keep up the good work!

    All the best,
    Lynn

    my songs
    www.soundclick.com/lynnwilson

    www.youtube.com/lywilson
    my videos

    Cakewalk by Bandlab| Sonar Platinum @ 64bits| i7 860 | 8 gigs ram | W10 @ 64 bits | RME FF 400
    #14
    thegaltieribrothers
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 297
    • Joined: 2011/07/28 14:18:38
    • Location: birmingham, united kingdom
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/11/11 14:14:25 (permalink)
    Good rock 'n roll country song here.
     
    Horns sounded great, bass + drums needed to be louder for me.
     
    Thanks for sharing.
     
    Good Job!
     
    paul
    #15
    dougk1824
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 264
    • Joined: 2017/01/13 11:55:22
    • Location: USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/11/11 15:47:12 (permalink)
    This is a really rockin' tune - I enjoyed the listen. Nice lead vocal.
    #16
    Larry Jones
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 810
    • Joined: 2007/10/11 02:45:33
    • Location: Southern California
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/11/19 03:37:42 (permalink)
    Lynn, Galtieri Bros, DougK1824: Thank you for the compliments and the suggestions. There's a link to a new rough mix in my original post.

    Sonar Platinum 2017.10 • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
    #17
    daryl1968
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10922
    • Joined: 2010/06/01 22:51:43
    • Location: Englishman in deepest, darkest Wales
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/11/20 12:12:05 (permalink)
    Hi Larry - didn't hear the original but this sounds great - the horns sound close to believable and have the desired effect in the song
    #18
    dcumpian
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4116
    • Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/11/20 13:32:47 (permalink)
    Excellent work Larry! This tune bops along really well and I think the horns fit very well. The kick is a little mushy and I think it would help define the bottom better if it was tightened up. Otherwise, no complaints.
     
    Regards,
    Dan
     

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #19
    Starise
    Max Output Level: -0.4 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7544
    • Joined: 2007/04/07 17:23:02
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/11/20 15:44:22 (permalink)
     Didn't read the other comments made here. The horns have just the right amount of snap to them IMHO.
    Doesn't sound like a one man band. Sounds like a band. Nice!

    Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, ,
    3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, 
    Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface.
     CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 
     
     www.soundcloud.com/starise
     
     
     
    Twitter @Rodein
     
    #20
    batsbrew
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 9984
    • Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
    • Location: SL,UT
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/11/20 16:12:36 (permalink)
    man what a great boogie!
     
    dig the walking bass line, and the horn samples hit just right.
     
    this mix sounds muddy to me, especially the vocals.
     
    it's just a lack of high end clarity,
    the louder you play it the better,
    but it's still got some 'haze' across the high end
     
    nice arrangement,
    and i dig the guitar solo just as it is on the 2nd version.
     
     

    Bats Brew music Streaming
    Bats Brew albums:
    "Trouble"
    "Stay"
    "The Time is Magic"
    --
    Sonar 6 PE>Bandlab Cakewalk>Studio One 3.5>RME BFP>i7-7700 3.6GHz>MSI B250M>G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB>Samsung 960 EVO m.2ssd>W 10 Pro
     
    #21
    markno999
    Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1448
    • Joined: 2007/08/27 18:09:30
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/11/20 19:29:52 (permalink)
    Larry,
     
    Nice work and fun song.   Just listened to your re-mixed post (not the original version)    Everything sounds in its' place in the mix and you did a good job with the horn arrangement (very believable).   I think the track could use some M/S EQ to remove some of the low end from the sides and keep bass, kick, focused in the center,  that might add a bit more clarity to some of the parts.   Outstanding work though, really liked it a lot.
     

    Regards
    #22
    Larry Jones
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 810
    • Joined: 2007/10/11 02:45:33
    • Location: Southern California
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/11/30 06:00:02 (permalink)

    daryl1968, dcumpian, Starise, batsbrew, markno999 and everyone before whom I've already thanked:

    Thank you all (again) so much for listening and especially for taking the time to help me get this into shape. As I have mixed it I have relied heavily on your expertise and suggestions and I believe what I have now is way better for your advice. I don't expect to burn any more of your time on this one, but I have posted a "final" mix here (as if I'm not going to tweak it again some day - I already have plans...) if anyone would like to see where it stands now.
     
    Now I have time to get back to watching all 40 Christmas movies on Netflix before the holiday season runs out.

    Sonar Platinum 2017.10 • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
    #23
    jamesg1213
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 21406
    • Joined: 2006/04/18 14:42:48
    • Location: SW Scotland
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/11/30 15:04:15 (permalink)
    Well that's a real toe-tapper, love it!

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



    Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
    #24
    burgerproduction
    Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 193
    • Joined: 2015/05/01 02:49:17
    • Location: Italy
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/12/03 15:20:32 (permalink)
    You're gonna hate - I prefer the first mix to the final mix. :D It's fatter, more bass and generally louder.
    I love the vocals, great rock and roll sound. The drums neeeedddd to be real though. For this kind of track, you need a real drummer. Love the guitaring though. 

    Cakewalk by Bandlab, Sonar Platinum Lifetimer, Windows 10, HP Laptop, CPU i5, RAM 8GB, Edirol FA-101 Firewire interface with moded drivers, Digital piano, more guitars than I should have:
    Check out my music :
    https://53mph.bandcamp.com/album/like-water-to-the-sand
     
    #25
    Larry Jones
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 810
    • Joined: 2007/10/11 02:45:33
    • Location: Southern California
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/12/05 21:19:37 (permalink)
    jamesg1213 -  Thanks!
    burgerproduction - Well, yeah. The number one quality I need in a drummer is the ability to keep perfect time. Second is the ability to put some personality in the beat. In 50 years I've played with maybe two drummers I could really count on to do those things, on the road, night after night, cover after boring cover, sometimes with not enough sleep, often -- shall we say? -- a little compromised mentally. I used to say I would be the last guy on the bandstand working with a human on drums. 😎 If I could find decent work I could call one of those guys and pay him to play on my tracks. But these days it's hard enough to get any kind of gig, even if you're willing to demean yourself all the way down to doing a "tribute band," and forget about guys my age with no hits to their names trying to do original music. When you're 20, ambitious and hopeful, everybody will work for free for a while, but in time the idealism wears off and BOOM -- you're working with MIDI drums. All this is to say I'm not using MIDI drums because I prefer them, but because I don't have another option.
     
    At least they do keep perfect time...
    post edited by Larry Jones - 2018/12/06 02:28:39

    Sonar Platinum 2017.10 • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
    #26
    burgerproduction
    Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 193
    • Joined: 2015/05/01 02:49:17
    • Location: Italy
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/12/06 13:11:25 (permalink)
    Larry, I totally understand. Don't get me wrong. But I do feel the drums could be 'humanized' a bit more.
    My old BFD had a great option for humanizing the drums (varying the hit velocity/ occasionally playing a rim shot etc..) the results can sound quite convincing, more authentic. Some drum programs these days sound too souless, which is great for modern pop, but terrible for old fashioned rock and roll.
    Your track sounds rock solid, I just feel the drum sound lets it down a bit, that's all.
    If you have a bit of dosh to throw at some projects, you can hire a drummer on-line.  There are guys who will play to your wav track and then send you the stems.  I personally have never used them because I don't have much money to throw at my hobby, but if you want to, they are available. 
    Sorry if I ruffled your feathers man. Didn't mean to.

    Cakewalk by Bandlab, Sonar Platinum Lifetimer, Windows 10, HP Laptop, CPU i5, RAM 8GB, Edirol FA-101 Firewire interface with moded drivers, Digital piano, more guitars than I should have:
    Check out my music :
    https://53mph.bandcamp.com/album/like-water-to-the-sand
     
    #27
    Larry Jones
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 810
    • Joined: 2007/10/11 02:45:33
    • Location: Southern California
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/12/06 18:44:24 (permalink)
    burgerproduction
    Larry, I totally understand. Don't get me wrong. But I do feel the drums could be 'humanized' a bit more.
    My old BFD had a great option for humanizing the drums (varying the hit velocity/ occasionally playing a rim shot etc..) the results can sound quite convincing, more authentic. Some drum programs these days sound too soulless, which is great for modern pop, but terrible for old fashioned rock and roll.
    Your track sounds rock solid, I just feel the drum sound lets it down a bit, that's all.
    If you have a bit of dosh to throw at some projects, you can hire a drummer on-line.  There are guys who will play to your wav track and then send you the stems.  I personally have never used them because I don't have much money to throw at my hobby, but if you want to, they are available. 
    Sorry if I ruffled your feathers man. Didn't mean to.


    ...And I don't mean to show you my ruffled feathers. Sorry! I admit I haven't explored all the possibilities of "humanizing" my drum tracks, and I intend to look more carefully at randomizing velocities and timings in the future, but I just don't have a way to use real drummers these days -- no connections, no money. No offense taken.
     
    Very early on in my musical career we were all amateurs and I slowly came to the realizations that a.) timing was critical and b.) the drummers I was playing with (friends and beginners like me) were not rhythmically solid. But you go on the road with the band you have, not the band you wish you had, so I had to put up with it. I lived through the era of bad-sounding drum machines, and I used them, but only to keep the live drummer in line.😉 Around the turn of the century I started digital recording on my own, and what a relief to hear a steady drum track!
     
    But you're right: I need to find ways to improve my drum tracks. It never ends, does it?

    PS: Please let me know if you have any specific ideas on how to do this, and thanks! Here's my formal request.
    post edited by Larry Jones - 2018/12/06 19:21:52

    Sonar Platinum 2017.10 • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
    #28
    burgerproduction
    Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 193
    • Joined: 2015/05/01 02:49:17
    • Location: Italy
    • Status: offline
    Re: House of Mirrors 2018/12/06 20:11:48 (permalink)
    Larry Jones
     
    It never ends, does it?

    No, it never does.  Every time I think my track is where I want it, someone points something out and I go back to the drawing board.  In fact, I've just pulled out a load of sessions from 2015 today because I have some new tools that I think would improve the sound.
    One advantage of using MIDI drums is that you can play about with lots of different drum VSTs without too much hassle. I've got BFD (the first edition which had really high definition sample hits and great humanizing tools), Session Drummer 1 & 2 (each has its own sound, so worth playing with) Addictive Drums (cool but sometimes too clean and precise for my liking).
    What I sometimes like doing is using two or three drum VSTs in the same mix. Try replacing the individual drums with others that don't come in the preset styles. I've found AD is great for mixing kit parts. I love using the mallets with jazz patterns and the Cajon and wood block with rock beats.
    Another avenue to explore is the Drum Replacer - Take the drums you've got and bounce down each drum/cymbal to indiviual wav tracks then run them through Drum Replacer and mess around with the sound. You can then layer this on the original track to give more ummph.
    Just some ideas. 

    Cakewalk by Bandlab, Sonar Platinum Lifetimer, Windows 10, HP Laptop, CPU i5, RAM 8GB, Edirol FA-101 Firewire interface with moded drivers, Digital piano, more guitars than I should have:
    Check out my music :
    https://53mph.bandcamp.com/album/like-water-to-the-sand
     
    #29
    Jump to:
    © 2018 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1