How 2 Get: nice automation curves when using knobs/faders?

AFAIK there's no way other than have perfect hand movement. One thing you can do if a smooth curve is essential is to go back over them and edit manually, now easier to do in X1.

Apply edit filter to required envelope lasso select all but first and last nodes in curves, press delete, select desired curve, shift click on next envelope and repeat.

Obviously that can get extremely time consuming if you have loads to do but how many are completely dead smooth curves essential for?

Okay, but how does it SOUND?
 
Digital is by its very nature "stair-step oriented".  That goes for anything that is inputted in analog form, from audio to your controller movements.
 
If your automation SOUNDS just fine and/or SOUNDS like you intended it to when you moved your controllers, then take that and be happy. 
 
I doubt Stevie Wonder worries about stair-step automation lines.  And the last time I bought a CD, I don't recall being too concerned whether or not the engineer had perfectly curved or straight automation lines.    
 
I have to constantly remind myself to stop mixing with my eyes and let my ears be my guide.

guys - imagine fast moves on knob - then nothing, then again fast moves.
Look at the automation, look at the virtual parameter and YOU TELL ME - how it sounds?
i.e. use it with speed parameter of tape echo, with mix parameter, or with others, like VOL, PAN, ...

it's not an "issue" - it's a total crappy diseaster - one big mistake (instead of few other words starting on "f", "s", etc)...

Who else think that "it should be like this"?

adrian4u


guys - imagine fast moves on knob - then nothing, then again fast moves.
Look at the automation, look at the virtual parameter and YOU TELL ME - how it sounds?
i.e. use it with speed parameter of tape echo, with mix parameter, or with others, like VOL, PAN, ...

it's not an "issue" - it's a total crappy diseaster - one big mistake (instead of few other words starting on "f", "s", etc)...

Who else think that "it should be like this"?

I use loads of automation most of which is done from an MCU or XT, some from a behringer BCF2000, some from my A&H ZED-R16 and occasionaly a little from a PCR-800. I just don't see the problem. Are they dead smooth curves? No Are they jaggered jumping about curves? No.

I'd take a look at your set up and how you're moving knobs/faders if they are that bad. I'm sure that it would have been mentioned before on here by now if it was a major problem, and this is the first time I've seen it mentioned. It certainly isn't a problem here.

***** disclaimer. I haven't read every thread though...........

There's a few criteria that I judge anything by, the first one is can I hear it? Second is it affecting the quality?

If the answer to those is no that's usually good enough for me. If I have to zoom in to see it, it can't be that much of a problem in the first place AFAIC.

Might be worth looking at your refresh frequency rate in the control surfaces dialogue if it is so bad as to be causing you problems.

So - you actually rather have "fabricated" (smooth) data than the real (stepped) data visible? I mean - however you look at it - MIDI data only has a maximum number of steps (256 or -128 to + 128) and will never ever be smooth. The actual data is always stepped. Well - in that case you have too choose a DAW that cheats and will not give you the correct information then. There are a few out in the woods I guess...

Now I'm almost completely convinced that I have a different edition of X1 to many other users. I've just tried some automation written with my MCU and I don't see that here at all. The nodes drawn are evenly spaced and the lines between them smooth.

I'd have a good look at your setup, perhaps some tweaking is called for.

Is the automation line with the jumps in dotted? If so, you are drawing the wrong curve type by default. I can't remember how you change that ahead of time, but if you select all the nodes in your automation, and select a curve type other than "Jump", it will go some way towards repairing the automation data you already have.

Would be good if Sonar could do decent automation curves - some hosts (Reaper, Podium and FL Studio are the 3 I'm aware of) have the option to use bezier curves for automation which makes for much more controllable and neater curves, instead of a smooth curve having to be made up of dozens of nodes you just have a few (and Reaper and Podium also have a neat node reduction process).

And then playing around, do some dynamic effects realtime automation using knobs and faders - and get angry because in result I have no nice curved lines just STAIRS.... anyone can help?

 
If you run the CAL script "Thin Controller Data" this will reduce the number of steps.  Then assuming X1, go Clips > Convert Controllers to envelopes.  You can then add or remove further nodes'
 
Hope that helps.
 
PM if you need the CAL script

adrian4uNo"straight" lines from A to B to C (etc) just stairs.

I think John T was on the right track with post #16 that for some reason your installation is defaulting to the "jump" mode for the curve type between nodes when writing automation. I've never seen this, and am not aware of any setting in in SONAR or any of it's initialization files that might affect this. The Prepare Using buffer and AutomationDecimationMsec=50 in AUD.INI  can affect how automation is read, but not how it's written.


Unfortunately, John's suggestion to select all nodes and change to another curve type won't work, because SONAR only changes the one segment you right-click to get the context menu. This is a pet peeve of mine, since I would rather have straight lines between nodes than the willy/nilly mix of slow and fast curves that SONAR puts together by default. But it's not possible to change all segments at once.

In any case, like FBB, I get the same result (lines between nodes, not jumps) whether writing automation with a widget in the track view or with a fader on my BCF2000.

I don't know why your installation of X1 would behave differently, but there must be something in your environment or configuration that is causing this.

It might be time to contact Cakewalk Tech Support.

any advice is good advice, but I can't check it today - it's 11.30pm here, tigers should go bed in near future :D

I didn't even play with my birthday gift - Korg TR (Trinity) Rack I've got today....

here it looks good - but show it on Automation lane in Track View. you'll see stairs, not line rising when values go up and falling when walues go down....

Try to "draw" two different values in ie. 2 beats space, and see if line between them is straight or you maybe get stair?
"/" or "_I-" ?

Hi there,

what version of Sonar are you running ?  32bit or 64bit ?.

And what plugin are you recording automation with ?, is it a 32bit or 64bit Plug ?.

If you are recording automation of a 32bit Plugin which is bitbridged under Sonar 64bit, you will have this kind of issue.

In the case of recording automation of a 32bit plugin in Sonar 64bit, use jbridge instead of bitbridge, and it should work fine.


Cheers - Cliff

I have iissue with jBridge - it "turns on" authomatically when I install new plugin. It even takes "control" over 64bit plugins - little weird.

From an earlier post by Noel Borthwick on a related issue with Jbridge and Prochannel in the initial release of X1:


- Go to plugin manager and Take OUT the use jBridge setting at the "folder defaults" level. i.e. you do NOT want to tell the scanner to apply jBridge to every plugin. This is actually a bad idea in general since you are making your system inefficient for plugin processing.

- Open the preferences and reset the VST scan inventory. (or do this from plugin manager itself)

- Do a full scan again

- Now go to plugin manager and add back the use jBridge property ONLY TO the plugins that require bridging.