Michael Five
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(How) Do you use the Matrix?
I'm finally starting to move from 7 to X1, and the Matrix is tempting me to change a lot about how I have been writing and arranging stuff. Catching a lot of ideas as they come and recording in clips with different instruments, then putting it all together with the Matrix seems like a more flexible and faster way to flesh out songs than basically being bound to a certain structure upfront with the track-based approach. I realize that, for me anyway, it'll be a hybrid thing, ending up back in tracks once it has congealed.
Anybody use it like this? Or other cool ways?
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 05:31:54
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I've started using it quite a lot for getting inspiration via a different perspective and also trying out various arrangement ideas. I guess for non-musicians (especially) it's a very easy way of getting ideas together. I can't see it ever taking over as my main compositional method but it certainly gets some ideas going, in the same way that I come up with different song ideas if I compose on a piano (I'm a guitarist by birth  ) Overall I like it and I've almost ignored it since it was first included.
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Michael Five
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 06:07:32
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Sounds kinda like what I'm thinking - I'm a guitarist as well, but can play the other instruments I need well enough to either record or trigger midi with, but not so well as to avoid lots of takes and comps and punches. Plus, only part of the song usually comes to me from wherever it is they come from, and I have to sort the rest out if it's to be. So snagging pieces and parts as they happen and reassembling with the Matrix seems mighty handy, if nothing but a slightly more free-hand way to get a set of scratch tracks up. How useful it is beyond that and how quickly I'd end up back in the track view is really the thing I need to gauge.
The light bulb that I think has popped on for me is the realization that it is more than a tool for driving midi loops and synths. I think....
_______________________________________________ X1c, p35 6600 Quad OC@3Ghz, FF400, Saffire 6, IBM T42, UAD-1, Superior 2.0
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Linear Phase
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 06:18:17
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The best thing to do, especially if you are new to the concept: grab loops out of your library and drop them into the Matrix. Start triggering them, you will see what is up very quickly. Basically, the challenge is in the time thing.. We all believe time moves from left to right. However, that is insane. Time does not move left to right... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_physics So... I reckon, think of the Matrix as a sampler, that loads audio and midi clips, is optimized for vertical arrangements and improvisation of clips. Most music since the birth of music... is basically patterns and notes organized in time. so than the Matrix allows for that vertically, and if you can get past, "the time thing," you will begin to see the many advantages of this. I've been playing guitar 14 years. Producing for 7. So I beg to differ with the, "non-musician," statement....
too many lasers...  Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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Linear Phase
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 06:20:37
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Michael Five
The light bulb that I think has popped on for me is the realization that it is more than a tool for driving midi loops and synths. I think.... Try it with drums and bass audio! Trust me.. I've used Ableton Live since 2007... The Matrix is a sampler... yeah, it will do midi. Audio is the key :-)
too many lasers... Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 08:30:58
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So I beg to differ with the, "non-musician," statement.... What? A non-musician would find getting ideas together with a guitar or piano easier? 
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Linear Phase
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 15:04:43
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FastBikerBoy
So I beg to differ with the, "non-musician," statement....
What? A non-musician would find getting ideas together with a guitar or piano easier?
I can't find any logical and fact based arguments to support the contrary; so I reckon yep.. you are correct. Doesn't take away from the fact that I believe the Matrix is an incredible tool for novice and advanced user. In Ableton Live the Matrix, "Session View," is the centerpiece of the program. In Sonar the Matrix is part of a vast array of features and tools. Nice engineering, Cakewalk Team!
too many lasers... Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 15:21:48
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Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking it. I think it's a great tool.
The non-musician quote wasn't knocking non-musicians either. It was meant as a simple statement of fact. If someone isn't a musician it provides a relatively easy way of getting ideas together. In fact it's a great way of getting ideas whether someone's a musician or not.
Easier and more instantly gratifying than drawing in a PRV anyway. IMHO of course.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 16:56:38
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The Matrix is essentially a non linear way of performing music. Though it lends itself more easily to electronic/loop based music, even for musicians who aren't into those genres, the Matrix can be a useful tool for flushing out compositional ideas.
Often even in more traditional music you don't always think linearly. So one way of using the matrix is to put your fragments or ideas into cells within columns and then trigger the column to perform the part. This can be a handy way to experiment with how things sound while composing. For instance you could put in several variations of a chorus or verse into columns and then trigger them to see what they sound like when switching between them. Once you like something you can then commit it to linear tracks.
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Michael Five
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 18:26:20
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Linear Phase
Basically, the challenge is in the time thing.. We all believe time moves from left to right. However, that is insane. Time does not move left to right...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_physics
Oh, your inner eye sees clearly - that's what really turned me on about the matrix, the notion that it could set me free from the linear time of the tape-recorder as manifest in the track view. But I was reluctant to just blurt it out, because once a person starts raving about temporal non-linearity, well, all bets are off.... I do have a question, though - can you control the matrix with recorded midi? Also can you use clips of any length, triggered as one-shots across measure boundaries to allow what would amount to punch-in insertions wherever (in time) you like? Speaking of time, I'm not sure it moves at all. I think what separates us from cats and other higher beings is our stubborn insistence on trying to get out of the eternal moment....
_______________________________________________ X1c, p35 6600 Quad OC@3Ghz, FF400, Saffire 6, IBM T42, UAD-1, Superior 2.0
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Michael Five
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 18:40:32
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
The Matrix is essentially a non linear way of performing music. Though it lends itself more easily to electronic/loop based music, even for musicians who aren't into those genres, the Matrix can be a useful tool for flushing out compositional ideas.
Often even in more traditional music you don't always think linearly. So one way of using the matrix is to put your fragments or ideas into cells within columns and then trigger the column to perform the part. This can be a handy way to experiment with how things sound while composing. For instance you could put in several variations of a chorus or verse into columns and then trigger them to see what they sound like when switching between them. Once you like something you can then commit it to linear tracks.
Exactly what I was hoping to do. What keeps nagging at me, though, is the potential of this kind of technology to usher in a whole paradigm shift in music production. At the risk of waxing mathematical, the track view is really a trivial case of the matrix view. I don't think it is currently implemented in exactly the vein I'm thinking, but I'm just getting into it and really don't know yet. Lemme ask it like this: looking back in time, if we'd had digital recording before we had magnetic tape, would we have ever even had a track view?
_______________________________________________ X1c, p35 6600 Quad OC@3Ghz, FF400, Saffire 6, IBM T42, UAD-1, Superior 2.0
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Beepster
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 18:59:39
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As a rock and roll "dinosaur" I want to learn how to use it to trigger samples like Brandon did in the second webinar (I'm an avid Skinny Puppy and industrial music fan as well). For the rest of my actual recordings though I think the PRV and Step Sequencer will cover any real musical end of things I can't perform with my own voice, flesh and/or tendons. However in a LIVE scenario I think having the matrix set up to trigger loops that have either been pre-recorded or recorded on stage would be awesome. I'm sure there are many other options on the market for this type of live chicanery but X1 is what I have and by gummit imma gonna use it for all it's worth. I just imagine sitting all by my lonesome on a stage with some percussion and bass loops loaded, thwacking away at them with a foot controller and going into epic guitar stupidity all the while letting out the odd mournful shriek. Oh good times will be had.
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Michael Five
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 19:28:26
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Beep, you are a wordsmith - live chicanery, mournful shrieks, and good times for all. That sounds like a good concert to me. Reminds me of a James Brown show where his handlers would run out on stage and cover him up with a purple cape while he squatted down and did something up under there, then after a minute James would leap up and start screaming out the signs of the zodiac two by two. I think he forgot one, though....
post edited by Michael Five - 2012/07/01 19:37:51
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Beepster
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 19:42:38
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Heh. Well I suck at all this new fangled computer music production stuff but I did used to put on one heck of a spectacle back in the day. Love the avatar BTW. I have no idea what that is from but it draws me in every time I see it.
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Living Room Rocker
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 20:42:16
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
.. the Matrix can be a useful tool for flushing out compositional ideas.
I hope you don't mean the Matrix is akin to a virtual commode for dumping your ideas. Kidding, Noel, we can see you mean "fleshing out". However, the Matrix does have that swirly kind of way of working with loops and all. I use the Matrix for popping in my composed patterns for play back and let inspiration continue to flow while recording to track. I actually use the MV often this way. Then I just go back and flush...I mean flesh out my project with fills which go back into the MV for further arranging. So, in short, I create a bed of patterns in the MV to record and improvise during playback and then spice it up using the MV as a blender (the swirly part) to bring it all together. Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
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Linear Phase
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Re:(How) Do you use the Matrix?
2012/07/01 22:20:14
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Michael Five
I do have a question, though - can you control the matrix with recorded midi?
Also can you use clips of any length, triggered as one-shots across measure boundaries to allow what would amount to punch-in insertions wherever (in time) you like?
Speaking of time, I'm not sure it moves at all. I think what separates us from cats and other higher beings is our stubborn insistence on trying to get out of the eternal moment....
I dunno :-) Probably. I'm still finding out a lot about it myself. New Sonar user here. What is interesting is that you seem to be able to trigger a loop, not necessarily at the start of a measure, but on beat, at different points in a bar. That is huge diff from Abe Live, pretty nifty. I'm sure you can do these things, you just have to sort out your own workflow. Plus, you can always record your loops, and make arrangement changes and edits on the horizontal timeline.
too many lasers... Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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