Helpful ReplyHow Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It?

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Anderton
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2016/12/29 11:46:33 (permalink)

How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It?

I'll start things off by answering my own question
 
I don't use it very much, but when I do, I really need it. Because I think that the pure TR-808/909 type of drum sound has become trite, I prefer to use loops of acoustic drums, played by a human drummer. While that adds a really cool element, sonically the "fit" isn't always ideal with EDM and hip-hop. Since there aren't any EDM/hip-hop-type Drum Replacer sounds, I developed a set of kicks and snares for that purpose. I've found that by "highpassing" the loop to reduce the kick and using DR to add the EDM kicks, and also layering the snare with something more electronic, I get the best of both worlds - human feel, with important sounds for the genre that provide a better match.
 
There are likely more imaginative applications, but this one has really helped me out.

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#1
gswitz
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/29 13:58:33 (permalink)
Ha ha... I have used it to extract beats and convert to drums then offset by a beat.

Mostly I use it to reinforce live recorded drums.

I always extract the midi and go from there. I do not leave it on the track.

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I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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ampfixer
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/29 17:21:21 (permalink)
I've had mixed results with it. As designed, it's pretty good for kick drums, but I like to use it to reinforce any instrument that has a distinctly percussive edge. I wish there were more samples to use with it, but I can't be bothered to compile SFZ files just for that application. It's kind of cool to reinforce a drum sound with a breath sample in a Kate Bush kind of thing.

Regards, John 
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#3
Anderton
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/29 17:56:00 (permalink)
ampfixer
It's kind of cool to reinforce a drum sound with a breath sample in a Kate Bush kind of thing.



That does sound cool...as I said, "There are likely more imaginative applications" so I'm hoping this thread flushes out some more along the lines of what you've contributed.
 
 I wish there were more samples to use with it, I can't be bothered to compile SFZ files just for that application.

 
I hear you...but bear in mind that 80% of the work goes into making your first set of samples. After that, it's mostly about doing a find-and-replace in the SFZ script for different samples. I did an article in the October 2016 eZine about creating a set of samples for the Drum Replacer if you want to see what kind of process is involved...it looks harder than it is. 
 
 

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dcmg
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/29 18:29:14 (permalink)
I had a client project that was a bit of a Pentatonix thing where most or all tracks were human produced.
Being able to take the human beatbox tracks, gate/EQ them then use Drum Replacer to augment the human sound with a touch of 909 type kick was crucial. Worked really well.

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deswind
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/29 18:30:22 (permalink)
I am wondering about this.  I have a drummer who played a track with the high hat going nuts throughout it.  Now I am tried of it and would like to replace it.  So I assume I can use this program to substitute his kick, snare, toms, and put in the highhat and cymbals where I want them.
 
Does this make sense?
#6
chuckebaby
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/29 18:36:13 (permalink)
 
I wrote out a nice description of different methods I use for DR in another thread you had a few weeks ago, let me see if I can find that one and copy/paste it in here.
 
I use every feature to try and squeeze every once I can out of it. the samples (Chocolate audio samples) I find to be rather decent myself. but some of them are hit or miss.
for example, I love the Zeppelin snare, But the Zeppelin kick is way too boxy.
Same goes for the Motown Kick, I love the kick.. but the Motown snare has an annoying ring to it. A little too authentic for my liking.
 
EDIT: Here's the post I was referring to:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drum Replacer Tips+Tricks
So many cool things in drum replacer. Some are not as well known.
 
1- Adding notes: Sometimes you set up the Filter and interval but don't want to tweak it just to catch a few notes.
Simply left click on the lower half of the Drum replacer timeline to add in a note.
 
2- Remove stray notes: As above, sometimes the filter or interval are set, but there's that one defunct note that's like 5 feet away from the real drum hit. Right click on the stem to remove it. Then add in a note using procedure/Step 1.
 
3- Add Velocity's: On custom notes you put in yourself (see Step 1) You can adjust these velocity's by clicking on the stem and holding( on custom note). A number will appear with the Velocity. Dragging up or down changes the value of the notes velocity.
 
4- Using a delayed hit: One can set up replacement hits to be a little early or a little late.
This works perfect on Snare hits. Hover your mouse over the Audio photo and click and hold, Drag right or left.
I find when Stacking drum, giving the second or third snare a little bit of delayed time thickens it up VS. leaving it in perfect time with the previous snare hit.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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#7
rodreb
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/29 18:57:21 (permalink)
I don't use it as much as I would like to. The limited samples that come with it are too.... uh.... limiting. I just have not had time to invest in making sfz samples. It would be soooooo nice if we could utilize the Addictive Drums samples in it.
 



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#8
gbowling
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/29 18:57:42 (permalink)
We always record real drums and produce midi from it to trigger sounds and mix the two to get better sounds.
 
When Drum Replacer came out I was excited that it would improve or at least be easier to produce the overlay parts or the midi. But I find that I get better midi translation with audiosnap than with drum replacer. Then I can trigger any of the AD2 or SD drummer sounds for the overlay. So I haven't used DR much lately. 
 
I use the method posted here in the past by Lord Tim, where you use an aggressive gate to control audiosnap so it is more accurate. It works very well, but would be nice if there were improvements to AS or DR to make it easier. Trigger AD2 and blend with the real drums and you can really get a great kit sound. I generally don't trigger cymbals or HH, just use the overheads for that and trigger the rest of the kit.
 
gabo

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Cactus Music
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/29 19:19:10 (permalink)
I used it once and found the sounds provided useless so never used it again. Are you all saying you can add sfz samples like from Sessions drummer library? 
Or even better it will create a midi track?
Sorry I should read the instructions I guess. 

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chuckebaby
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/29 19:51:39 (permalink)
Cactus Music
I used it once and found the sounds provided useless so never used it again. Are you all saying you can add sfz samples like from Sessions drummer library? 
Or even better it will create a midi track?
Sorry I should read the instructions I guess. 


You can load both .WAV and .SFZ files in to Drum Replacer. However, DR will work better with SFZ file because it interprets velocity's within the SFZ file. Where as WAV files are a 1 set velocity. This video might help explain in a little more detail:

 
Importing Addictive drums samples in to DR is a little different. See the video below:


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jude77
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/29 20:14:08 (permalink)
I tried several times but the result have been . . . odd.  I hope development will continue on it because I see huge potential.

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ampfixer
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/30 12:50:37 (permalink)
I'm on the lookout for NON drum SFZ files and they seem to be very rare. It would be great if they could tweak the program to allow for a larger selection of compatible sample files.

Regards, John 
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pwalpwal
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/30 13:34:28 (permalink)
ampfixer
I'm on the lookout for NON drum SFZ files and they seem to be very rare. It would be great if they could tweak the program to allow for a larger selection of compatible sample files.


what about the SFZs that come with dim pro, rapture, etc?

just a sec

#14
Anderton
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/30 14:52:37 (permalink)
pwalpwal
ampfixer
I'm on the lookout for NON drum SFZ files and they seem to be very rare. It would be great if they could tweak the program to allow for a larger selection of compatible sample files.


what about the SFZs that come with dim pro, rapture, etc?



 
Good call, plenty of those suckers are scattered around a SONARian's hard drive.

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ampfixer
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/30 15:13:29 (permalink)
I have to admit I didn't even think about those files. I'll just go bang my head against the wall for a while.

Regards, John 
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#16
abacab
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/30 18:03:43 (permalink)
I like the potential of this ... if you have an acoustic track without drums ...
 
Creating Percussion from a Melody with Drum Replacer - Cakewalk Software
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#17
Hatstand
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/30 18:10:11 (permalink)
I have used it a fair bit to reinforce live drums. One thing I didn't realise until recently (Note to self, RTFM) is that you can drag and drop wav files onto it.  Sure you don't get the multi-sample velocity benefits of sfz but if you want to add a bit of sizzle from a sample or electronic drum sample and blend it in it works great. I recently went overboard and layered three additional snare samples to the original track using DR on a copy of the original live track.
I have also set up some rudimentary multi- velocity sample sets using samples from Loop loft and creating sfz files.

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mudgel
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/30 19:08:08 (permalink)
You know Bill Jackson wrote a utility to expand the sample repertoire for use in DRM Replacer.

It's available in the Software part of the forum in the Sonar Utilities thread.

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chuckebaby
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/30 19:37:41 (permalink)
mudgel
You know Bill Jackson wrote a utility to expand the sample repertoire for use in DRM Replacer.

It's available in the Software part of the forum in the Sonar Utilities thread.


Haven't tried it yet but it does look interesting:
CwDrSfzMaker
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3230962
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
This utility simplifies the process of sampling drum synths for use with Cakewalk Drum Replacer. It digests a string of hits in a 24bit wave file and installs them to the Drum Replacer content locations in the correct format. 32 velocity levels are saved in the multisample. The source file should have 32 hits, crescendoing, separated by exactly 2 seconds each. Included is a SONAR template.
Steps:
1. Open included Template: "DrumSamplerTemplate.cwt" 2. Insert the drum instrument of your choice and choose the kit you'd like to sample 3. Adjust the repeating MIDI note to play the kit piece that you want 4. Export a 24bit 44.1kHz file
(repeat if you want to randomize each hit with an alternative)
5. Open the CwDrSfzMaker.exe utility 6. Type in a name for your sample 7. Specify a type 8. Click "Browse..." and locate the file you exported in step 4 9. Click "Make It"
At this point, you can instantiate Drum Replacer, navigate to the "User" section in the sample list, and locate your new content.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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#20
LLyons
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/31 01:02:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby siordanescu 2016/12/31 07:19:21
I've used it, sparingly.  Glad it was there when I needed it.   I use it mostly for bass drums.  I have an OK mic locker, and can cover drums well.  Have a good sounding room too.  With overheads, room mics and individual mics on each head, top and bottom, I can correct for an odd placement here and there  EXCEPT when the bass drum is missing than beater sound. If it isn't there, its hard to bring back in with any of the other mics and if I can, it upsets the balance, unnaturally imho.
 
Now that I think about it - next time I track,  I will get a recording of single drum hits\mic combinations  just after setup, and see how I might be able to use them, and if I can - well that will be icing on the cake... 
 
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#21
John T
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/31 07:08:51 (permalink)
I use it quite a lot, mainly in the following cases:
 
1/ I'm mixing drums that I didn't record, and I'm not happy with the sound of some elements of the kit.
 
2/ I'm mixing drums that I DID record, and I'm not happy with the sound of some elements of the kit. Oops.
 
In both of the above cases, the most common problem is just a badly-tuned, badly-maintained kit.
 
3/ I'm trying to add something to a pre-existing loop that has weak elements.
 
 
I think the most common thing in all cases for me is replacement or augmentation of the kick drum.
 

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#22
jpetersen
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2016/12/31 18:57:28 (permalink)
1. I wish the Dyn (Dynamics) control had an accompanying level control. 
 
Currently the control does slope and level in one and the result is not always what I want.
 
(Note: the Level control sets audio level, not midi level)
 
2. I also wish user inserted notes could be muted, like the detected notes.
 
3. Seeing the midi levels of the notes more easily would also be great. Currently it's necessary to inspect each individually.
The intensity of the marker is clever but not precise enough when comparing markers more than a screen distance apart.
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Jimbo 88
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2017/01/01 12:42:00 (permalink)
dcmg
I had a client project that was a bit of a Pentatonix thing where most or all tracks were human produced.
Being able to take the human beatbox tracks, gate/EQ them then use Drum Replacer to augment the human sound with a touch of 909 type kick was crucial. Worked really well.


I've done this also.  To get better results I duplicated the beatbox track 3 times and eq'd to isolated the various elements...probably what dcmg did above.  The blending of the live and sampled drums was very cool.

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#24
piangio
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Re: How Many Using Drum Replacer, and How Do You Use It? 2017/01/01 16:48:15 (permalink)
Can't figure out my work with out it!
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