djayers1
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How Sonar compares with other DAWs
I'm just curious - not looking to change (don't want another learning curve, and I'm satisfied). What is Sonar's place in the hierarchy of DAWs ( I realize I'm asking a prejudiced crowd - since we all use it). If we were talking about cars in the US 20 years ago, for example, we'd say GM is the biggest, then Ford, and then Chrysler a distant 3rd (not necessarily an order of quality). I keep hearing about CUBASE as a standard in this regard. I'm not suggesting it's the best - or even one of the best, just asking. Who's top dog? I realize the best may not be the biggest, plus sometimes it's " best to do what? - often that depends on what your needs are, and how much you can spend. Is there a consensus - at least in a given $ range?
post edited by djayers1 - 2011/04/07 03:34:55
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subtlearts
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 04:28:59
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☄ Helpful
Sonar works best for me because it's what's installed on my computer.  I would say that in terms of market share, Cubase is up near the top, and Pro Tools as well, though they occupy slightly different sectors. Logic has a captive audience, there probably aren't that many Mac audio people who don't at least have it installed, but it's also sliding since it seems to be a low priority for Apple. I would imagine Sonar to be coming in around fourth in terms of user base, probably still somewhat ahead of Ableton and FL but maybe not by all that much. After that - Reaper, Presonus are all a ways behind but both making strides. Digital Performer, conversely, I seem to hear less and less about. There are many other small-fry, some with some very nice features but nothing very deep or complete that I'm aware of. I think that in terms of features/stability/usability, all the top 4 are pretty equivalent, each with a few things it does a bit better. They are all very stable when running on a machine that's well-configured for them. Sonar probably has the flakiest audio engine, sadly - compared to Live or Presonus it's pretty easy to knock off its pegs - but then, it makes up for that in other areas, or else I wouldn't be using it. They all have bugs and issues but can all be used for serious professional audio production. They all have rabid fans who will not admit to any failing or flaw and assert that all other DAWs suck and their users are nimrods, and they all probably also have disgruntled users who are dissatisfied with where the company or product has gone or is going. That's the view from here anyway...
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WINYARDPRODUCTIONS
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 06:19:49
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Reaper is the software I've installed while I try to sort out the Sonar X1 mess I've got myself into. It works perfectly...
I just need Sonar 8 and I'll get off this forum that I joined to try and get Cakewalks attention. (read my first post!) Then I can get back recording music instead of using this forum as a last resort and venting frustration.
Anyway, Reaper has had a number PT HD users move to it so that says something.
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guthrart
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 06:20:43
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Hi Djayers, Thers's a quick place to check out how Sonar compares to every other major DAW, go to digital music doctor and you'll see that Sonar is second only to FL Studio PE for value for the money. Features-wise it is rated second to Cubase6.
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dappa1
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 06:27:01
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I would say that Digital Music Doctor have got it right very good site.
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LJB
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 06:44:25
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I understand your question, but just remember that there has been oodles of junk made on PT HD, Sonar, Cubase and every other DAW on the market. There have also been Billboard hits created in all of the above. And now that PT have given up their hardware stronghold, there's bound to be A LOT more upset PT users as well, as that's par for the course in the 3d Party world...
However, as a good mate of mine always says, it's the Ear, not the Gear. I'd add to that, you can only record what you get to work with.
Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
--------------------
Cakewalk with all the trimmings / Win 10Pro 64 / Intel i7-7700 / Asus Prime Z270k / 16GB DDR4 / RME HDSP9652 / RME UFX / Black Lion Audio ADA8000 / ART MPA & ART Pro Channel / Focusrite Voicemaster Pro / Aphex 107
Check out my work at www.onebigroom.co.za
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WINYARDPRODUCTIONS
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 07:57:44
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rosefam6
Hi Djayers,
Thers's a quick place to check out how Sonar compares to every other major DAW, go to digital music doctor and you'll see that Sonar is second only to FL Studio PE for value for the money. Features-wise it is rated second to Cubase6.
What? No SOUND FORGE PRO 10?
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UnderTow
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 08:29:22
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rosefam6
Hi Djayers,
Thers's a quick place to check out how Sonar compares to every other major DAW, go to digital music doctor and you'll see that Sonar is second only to FL Studio PE for value for the money. Features-wise it is rated second to Cubase6.
Unfortunately that shootout is silly. For instance PT looses points because it doesn't have any included modulation plugins or a spectrum analyser while X1 gets 5 points for it's spectrum analyser. Ridiculous. X1 scores a 3.8 for file management while PT only scores a 3.4. Anyone that has ever used PT and X1 will know that PT's file management is vastly superior to X1. But I have already explained all that here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2196242 X1 scores a 5 out of 5 for overall Surround rating. Have you used Surround in X1? Would you give it a 5/5? I doubt it. In short: That shootout is a shootout between the marketing bullet points. Not the actual DAWs themselves. I agree mostly with subtlearts post. I would just like to add Samplitude to the list of "complete" and "deep" DAWs. And if you are doing only audio there are also Pyramix, Soundscape and Fairlight as serious contenders. (And possibly SAWstudio). UnderTow
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chuckebaby
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 09:30:23
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WINYARDPRODUCTIONS
rosefam6
Hi Djayers,
Thers's a quick place to check out how Sonar compares to every other major DAW, go to digital music doctor and you'll see that Sonar is second only to FL Studio PE for value for the money. Features-wise it is rated second to Cubase6.
What? No SOUND FORGE PRO 10?
i wasnt under the impression soundforge pro 10 was a daw..i thought it was a mastering tool
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WINYARDPRODUCTIONS
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 09:34:28
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No full DAW with some add-ons you don't get with the others... Neat program and stable.
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UnderTow
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 09:34:52
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chuckebaby
i wasnt under the impression soundforge pro 10 was a daw..i thought it was a mastering tool
Digital Audio Workstation.... It could mean anything really. :-) UnderTow
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subtlearts
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 10:11:59
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I would certainly not call Sound Forge 10 a DAW in the sense that people usually use that term, though it's a very capable sound editing platform which I use regularly. It has a limited kind of multi-track capability and an object editing mode that can be useful for collaging audio together, but to pretend that it is a complete workstation that does everything the others mentioned here are is little more than wishful thinking, and I'm not sure where you're getting it from. It isn't sold or presented as a DAW and isn't trying to be. It has no MIDI or instrument functionality at all, and little in the way of mixing functionality either.
Undertow, you're right, I completely forgot Samplitude, which is as deep and complete as the 'big 4' I mentioned (making it a 'big 5' I guess) and has many strengths. I would say it probably comes in last among those in terms of market share, though not through any fault or lack of its own.
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Collandra
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 11:10:34
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Well, my personal (just an opinion) round up the DAW's would be: - Logic (Mac only) - Really not what the name implies as it's anything but logical and I've used it since v4! The whole user experience seems somewhat outdated these days and quite strange (for example, the browser has fast auditioning when not playing back a song, but it's very slow when it is). If Apple put any effort into the app, which they don't, this would change I'm sure, but they just don't seem to care about it much and just a couple of pages on Apple's website is about as dull as it gets.
- Pro Tools - Which I have always loved (and used since v5), but I (again) I hate the browser, and it's a pop-up, so no consolidated view to keep it all together. MIDI can be a bit hit 'n' miss in the timing department sometimes and it's very expensive, when you really want to start expanding it fully. Can be pretty power hungry on your computers CPU as well.
- Live - Used it since v1 but it's main fault (for many) is the audio engine has a fixed point and doesn't sound very nice when you really want to go pro with it (can sound a little boxy) and since v8, when they made big changes to the way the warp engine worked, it has been very buggy indeed and even 2 years on, shows no real signs of stability, which Live users always bragged about.
- Cubase - Used this since 1990 on the Atari ST, PC and Mac and I have to say that it's a lot getting better since Yamaha got involved, but how many pop-up windows? It's so messy and a lot of the synth plugins sound pretty poor in 2011, IMHO. They really need to look at the content side of things, but the new Halion SE player goes a long way to fixing some of that.
- Studio One - Used since v1, it was a great idea, but man that things GUI is just so ugly! You just can't look at it for long periods of time, it's sound library is really very dated and it lacks lots of basic audio editing features. Can also eat CPU at times. I'm sure it will get better when it gets to v2, but for now, it's a little basic.
- ACID Pro - Bought this at v2 in '99, but SONY have made sure ACID Pro doesn't progress or evolve in anyway whatsoever, in either looks or features and Sonic Foundry must cringe every time SONY bring out a new version (which isn't often). Very dated now, which despite what some may people may tell you, why would you want a DAW product in 2011 to look like you're using it in 1995 Computers these days do not need as much GUI stripping to free CPU cycles as they did a decade ago, and if you think they do, you'd better let Intel know just how bad a job they are doing with these new Sandy Bridge processors!
- FL Studio - Great features, constantly updated (for free), great plugins and effects - but I just don't understand it! I don't know if it's just me, but I find it so hard to get my head around and again, it just feels messy sometimes with so many floating windows. Personally, I like consolidated views as (on a single display) it really speeds things up and although there are some great things to love about FL, I don't find it's workflow one of them, but that's just my opinion.
- Record - if you have Reason, it will really feel complete - but no pitch shifting of audio tracks, no audio quantize, no MIDI tracks for using external hardware gear and the additional cost of ReCycle and it starts to look a little costly. Fast editing is a pain as you're not even in Record anymore, you're in ReCycle most of the time! Also, no drag and drop of anything from the browser can really get you frustrated at times. Starting to feel a little dated, IMHO.
- Reaper - Just don't like it at all - sorry, I know it has a lot of fans, but I'm not one of them, so you would have to ask someone else who's used it more about that one.
Then you have X1 Producer, which I view as... - X1 - Very modern-looking with a great modular layout, very fast workflow, the Pro Channel, excellent feature set (when it comes to editing), but let down a little by some of the synths and FX plugins being slightly outdated. As X1 is the first step in a major makeover, it would be wrong to expect too much too soon. If Cakewalk step things up in this direction, I'd be totally stunned with the package and it's value for money and I don't even own it yet - that's just after using it for a weekend at a friends studio - I was that impressed with it.
I have used a few other things to, such at MOTU DP, but I never really got into that so much. Hope that has helped and sorry if it hasn't!
Dell XPS 8300 Core i5 2.8Ghz, 4GB RAM, 1TB HD. Dell ST2320L 23-inch LED Display. Cakewalk A300 Pro Controller.
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djayers1
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 14:19:57
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These are all great comments...thanks for the discussion.
Dave
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konradh
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 14:34:37
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I asked Sweetwater's advice before buying. They told me Sonar and Pro Tools would do the job equally well. The engineer preferred Pro Tools a bit because he was used to it and file sharing among studios was easier since so many people use it. I went with Sonar X1/V-Studio because I have used Cakewalk stuff for many years and felt comfortable with it; I was heavy user of a Roland VS-1680 and understand their interface somewhat; and I depend heavily on MIDI + virtual instruments which is harder on Pro Tools. The large number of virtual instruments and plug-ins that came bundled with Sonar/V-Studio made it a price performer. (Note that I went to a large rack-mount 64-bit PC built by Sweetwater to run Vienna+Ivory II+RealGuitar+other VIs.)
Now that I have it installed, 1-I am pleased overall; 2-X1 is still a bit buggy and getting everything to communicate has been challenging; and 3-I have a huge learning curve but not as huge as it would have been switching to Pro Tools.
I will report back in 30 days.
I think of Pro Tools, Cubase, and Sonar as the heavy-hitters.
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AT
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 15:32:13
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Protools if you are planning in working in a working " pro" studio. Then all the others. It is like GM back when.
Logic and DP for the mac only crowd, tho both those seem to be losing ground. Here on the SONAR forum they don't matter being mac.
Cubase and SONAR are the other two heavy weights. I'm sure you could dig up the numbers sold of them, but Cubase probably has more, and much more in Europe.
Live and Fruity Loops are niche players, but fill them well. FL esp has probably sold a lot of copies, but recording audio ain't its stregnth.
There are Reaper and Presonus etc., who just can't reach the next level against the already established players.
Finally there are what I'd call the post house DAWs that are specialized - Samplitude, SAw and that ilk.
Then there are the SONY DAWs. I wouldn't say that SF is a DAW, but a damn good editor. Acid was cool, but they never finished developing it. And Vegas, if you just need the audio part of DAW is great. Easy to learn and quick to use. But it doesn't do midi and still looks like a 20th century program. I really don't understand SONY's rationale, if you combined ACID, midi and Vegas (even dropping the video filters/effects to save some money) they could have had a solid contender. But there you go.
When I was first looking at DAWs for the PC for here at home, I checked out the big three - Logic (still on the PC), Cubase and ProAudio (then to SONARHS). SONAR was the easiest for me to understand, despite some frustrations (some still with us). I also liked the fact it dealt with loops pretty well. I used it w/ Fruity loops (for VSTi support) and bounced midi to audio and finished up in Vegas. A long way around but it worked at home.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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subtlearts
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 15:39:26
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solid roundup AT, agreed all around. Especially concerning Sony's offerings - why are they so unable to put their various resources together, hire SOMEONE that has a clue about up-to-date interface design and make the killer app they could have if they did?
Anyway, I like X1 and hopefully with a few more rounds of improvement Sonar will be the one to beat, but they're not all the way there yet, and the competition is not exactly asleep either.
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UnderTow
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 16:31:02
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subtlearts
solid roundup AT, agreed all around. Especially concerning Sony's offerings - why are they so unable to put their various resources together, hire SOMEONE that has a clue about up-to-date interface design and make the killer app they could have if they did?
Sony seem to have real trouble with software. The stuff they buy that is already good is fine but each time I have to use something new from them it is a huge disaster. My ex bought one of those Sonar "Walkman" players. (Not an old tape thing but a modern digital contender to the Apple iPod). The hardware was great and it sounded fantastic unfortunately they paired it with the most ****ed software ever. Their megalomanic dreams meant they couldn't just let you copy MP3s to it like a regular USB drive. Instead you had to use their useless idea of an iTunes competitor. Luckily Sony realised their software was really bad so they rewrote it from scratch. Version 2 was completely different and... worse! Net result: Complete product failure. I suspect the suits at Sony never understood why their product failed because they never tried re-writing the firmware to make it a normal player. I am convinced that if they made the device a proper flexible and open player but offered their music-store functionality as well, they could have had great success. Moral of the story: Control freaks beware, life can't be controlled! Anyway, that was a bit of a side-track. :-D As I am side-tracking anyway, enjoy a nice little short-film about... Well just watch it. :-) http://vimeo.com/12890334 UnderTow
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backwoods
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 16:42:02
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Logic by Apple doesn't gets neglected by it's owners, Acid by Sony neglected. Do these big companies just have so many more important priorities that they realize it is just easier to make their flagship DAW cheaper and not worry about improving it.
Steinberg I believe is now owned by Yamaha and Cakewalk by Roland. What does this mean regarding how the DAW programmers operate? Is it a good thing? I see that many people are saying that Cubase is getting it's act in order again now. X1 is sharpening up nicely as well.
I wonder how the Roland people felt about the multitude of bug reports and quirks stated on this forum, given that Roland products are generally rock solid.
So many DAWS, so little time.
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subtlearts
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 16:42:33
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(responding to Undertow's link, above)
That was sweet, and I've passed it along through the usual channels. Two minutes of simple inspiration that made my day a little lighter, thanks!
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Peter Morrison
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/07 16:42:59
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The first daw I used way back was Cubase which was just a midi app. The first DAW I used was Logic Audio Platinum, but my PC was so naff it lead me to despair. But even when I did get it to run, the Environment window boggled me. My mate loved it and still uses Logic on Apple. I went to Cakewalk 7 and then Pro Audio 9 simply because for me, it was so easy to use. I did every upgrade since and it's still easy to use. Maybe some of the others are better, but are they easier?
Gear;-4 copper kettles-a large dustbin-a piece of string and a cotter pin. I keep a spring on standby
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agundrum
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/08 08:56:14
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I'd like to also point out Digital Music Doctor's "Music Software Internet Popularity" located here: http://www.digitalmusicdoctor.com/popularity/index.html Seems in so far as internet popularity, SONAR is taking over. I've been a user of Cakewalk software since it was first introduced in the 80's as "Cakewalk." I eventually moved to Pro Audio and then SONAR. Pro Tools has also popped up but in the early days the going price to start was $5,000 for the software and required expensive hardware and was proprietary. So this lost me from the start. I still view PT as proprietary in many ways.
John ------ SONAR X1 Producer, Adobe CS5 Master Collection, Gigabyte EP45-DS3R MB, Intel Core 2 Quad @ 2.66GHz, 4GB RAM, VisionTek Radeon HD 4850 video, 600W P/S, 4 SATA 7200RPM drives (1.8TB), DVD DL reader/re-writer, E-Mu 1820m Audio, Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, dual 22" displays
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UnderTow
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/08 14:44:34
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AT
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/08 15:22:31
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Undertow, etc.
I think SONY's problem is kinda like Apple's - they want to protect their "content." I hate how the IStore won't let you copy files or do much of anything with them but listen on your IPod. Sony, too, seems more interested in protecting their music library than in letting people listen to it.
Of course, I see their point, too. I realized that when my 18 year old daughter bought her first CD - as a present for her mother. She has an Iphone and computer full of music and she's never paid a cent. I just shake my head.
I'm afraid someone at SONY realized their pro programs could be used to "steal" music and they figured it was better not to mess with it in case someone somewhere was using it for such a nefarious purpose, not realizing their are a ton of download places to do it easier.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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chuckebaby
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Re:How Sonar compares with other DAWs
2011/04/08 15:54:49
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UnderTow
rosefam6
Hi Djayers,
Thers's a quick place to check out how Sonar compares to every other major DAW, go to digital music doctor and you'll see that Sonar is second only to FL Studio PE for value for the money. Features-wise it is rated second to Cubase6.
Unfortunately that shootout is silly. For instance PT looses points because it doesn't have any included modulation plugins or a spectrum analyser while X1 gets 5 points for it's spectrum analyser. Ridiculous. X1 scores a 3.8 for file management while PT only scores a 3.4. Anyone that has ever used PT and X1 will know that PT's file management is vastly superior to X1.
But I have already explained all that here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2196242
X1 scores a 5 out of 5 for overall Surround rating. Have you used Surround in X1? Would you give it a 5/5? I doubt it.
In short: That shootout is a shootout between the marketing bullet points. Not the actual DAWs themselves.
I agree mostly with subtlearts post. I would just like to add Samplitude to the list of "complete" and "deep" DAWs. And if you are doing only audio there are also Pyramix, Soundscape and Fairlight as serious contenders. (And possibly SAWstudio).
UnderTow
yes but if you give me a couple minutes i could probably dig up a ten year old link that says pro tools has problems..lmao...remember that?.im a loser..lol
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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