AnsweredHow To Alternate Panning (Per Note)?

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AdamGrossmanLG
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2016/12/29 02:07:29 (permalink)

How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)?

Hello,

I have a synth hi hat sound (still in MIDI) that I want to go from speaker to speaker... I want to alternate it so that the patterns looks like:

L-R-L-R-L-R-L-R

I know about the draw tool, but the thing is, these are not straight 16ths.  Its choppy.  

how do I get it so that each note hits a different pan position?
 
Thank You,
Adam
#1
promidi
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/29 02:40:32 (permalink)
What synth are you using?  What version and build number of Sonar are you using?

Can you modulate the pan position in your synth - depending on your synth.  Knowing your synth might help here.

You can also automate either the pan of the track or automate the pan parameter in the synth itself and use the draw square tool at 16th (set musical time snap to 1/8) and then move the automation nodes slightly to the left - as long as the hi-hat is the only note on the track.

You could also do it using Controller 10 on the track and use the PRV to put them in manually.  Just put each CC10 event just before each hi-hat hit.  Doing it this way you can create them as clips.  Create one clip and then copy that clip.
post edited by promidi - 2016/12/29 06:05:19

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Sanderxpander
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/29 05:32:39 (permalink)
Or use two hihat tracks, pan one left, one right.
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/29 06:40:42 (permalink)
I think I would use an automation lane and get the panning right for one "loop" of the hi hat pattern and then copy and paste the automation for the rest of the track

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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/29 08:21:25 (permalink)
Sanderxpander
Or use two hihat tracks, pan one left, one right.


Similarly, render the audio and chop into two Take Lanes, one panned left and one right.
 

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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/29 09:16:48 (permalink)
Take a look here. I haven't tried these myself, but they look interesting. In particular, there's a MIDI plugin for sequencing any CC, which presumably includes CC10. (Note: these are paid products that cost $35 but work with some restrictions unlicensed.)


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Soundwise
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/29 12:14:11 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby SilverBlueMedallion 2016/12/29 16:32:13
There you go. Save this code as NotePan.CAL in your Sonar CAL scripts folder.
Then select a track you want to insert MIDI pan to, hit CTRL+F1, browse to your CAL scripts folder, choose NotePan.CAL. Enjoy!
 

;
;NotePan.CAL by Alisa Miller
;
;This CAL program will insert a determined pan event (CC 10) after each note event.
;

(do
  (int count 0)
  (int left 0)
  (int right 127)

;; Get Min and Max Pan values to determine Pan changes
 (getInt left "Enter the left pan amount" 0 64)
 (getInt right "Enter the right pan amount" 64 127)

    (forEachEvent
      (if (== Event.Kind NOTE)
        (do
          (if (== count 0)
            (insert (+ Event.Time 1) Event.Chan CONTROL 10 (= Control.Val left)
            )
          )
           (++ count)
           (insert (+ Event.Time 0) Event.Chan CONTROL 10 (= Control.Val right))
         (if (== count 2)
              (= count 0) ; if count is 2, reset to 0
         NIL
          )
        )
      )
    )
)

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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/29 16:32:28 (permalink)
Amazing CAL script!!!  thank you everyone.  Good ideas in here!
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/29 16:55:24 (permalink)
The insight never ceases to amaze me - like for real...

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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/29 17:58:58 (permalink)
Soundwise's script reminds me that Cakewalk was really ahead of the curve with the CAL thing...would be nice to see it get some more love from the Bakers.

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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/29 22:33:57 (permalink)
Anderton
Soundwise's script reminds me that Cakewalk was really ahead of the curve with the CAL thing...would be nice to see it get some more love from the Bakers.



Definitely that, and Studioware panels.

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Sanderxpander
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/30 01:15:31 (permalink)
To be honest for me that's way too much like programming instead of making music.

Don't mistake me - I see its power and it's an awesome solution in this case, but I could never see myself writing one. I've never even used one. If they could find a way to make it more user friendly or more easily integrated into the workflow more people might get on board.
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/30 07:18:39 (permalink)
I was hoping somebody less lazy than me would do that...thanks, Alisa.


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Anderton
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/30 09:10:12 (permalink)
Sanderxpander
To be honest for me that's way too much like programming instead of making music.

Don't mistake me - I see its power and it's an awesome solution in this case, but I could never see myself writing one.



I'm not sure how possible it would be to make it user-friendly, but people like Alisa can come up with scripts that benefit SONARians. Similarly I've never written a Kontakt script, but I use a ton of Kontakt sounds that have scripting someone else did. 

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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/30 09:23:48 (permalink)
But sort out Staff View first.

 
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jeteague
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/30 14:28:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Soundwise 2017/01/04 11:17:35
To Soundwise:   Now that's taking care of business!
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brundlefly
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/30 15:34:32 (permalink)
I found that his CAL added more Pan events than necessary, and didn't really give the synth any time to respond to the pan message before the note event - maybe not a problem for soft synths, but could be an issue with hardware synths.
 
FWIW, below is a revised version that inserts only one message per note, and inserts it 30 ticks before each note. I didn't take time to make this 'lead time' user-specified or to automatically insert a message at 1:01:000 when the first note event is less than 30 ticks in. As noted in the CAL description, setting the Pan widget in the MIDI track will suffice to establish the initial position.
 
I have not 'bomb-proofed' this this script to avoid failure or bad results with unexpected input (e.g. chords) or to make it as efficient as possible so I can't make any guarantees of efficacy in all cases, but here it is:
 
;NotePan.CAL by David Baay, modified significantly from the original by Alisa Miller
;
; This CAL script will insert alternating Pan (CC10) events 30 ticks before each note event at 1:01:030 or later.
; If any notes occur before 1:01:030, the Track Pan should be set to the value equal to the left pan setting that you
; intend to set using the CAL to set the initial pan position before playback starts.
;
(do
  (int count 0)
  (int left 0)
  (int right 127)
  (int position 127)
 ;
  ;Get Min and Max Pan values to determine Pan changes
  (getInt left "Enter the left pan amount" 0 64)
  (getInt right "Enter the right pan amount" 64 127)
  (= position right)
    (forEachEvent
      (if (&& (>= Event.Time 30) (== Event.Kind NOTE))
        (do
          (insert (- Event.Time 30) Event.Chan CONTROL 10 (= Control.Val position))
          (if (<= position 64)
            (= position right)
            (= position left); else
          );end if
        );end do
      ); end if
   ); end for
 ); end do
post edited by brundlefly - 2017/01/02 13:02:03

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Sanderxpander
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2016/12/30 16:36:47 (permalink)
Anderton
Sanderxpander
To be honest for me that's way too much like programming instead of making music.

Don't mistake me - I see its power and it's an awesome solution in this case, but I could never see myself writing one.



I'm not sure how possible it would be to make it user-friendly, but people like Alisa can come up with scripts that benefit SONARians. Similarly I've never written a Kontakt script, but I use a ton of Kontakt sounds that have scripting someone else did. 

If not the writing, then maybe the application of them. A browser with tags, a hotswap function a la Ableton, easy modification of definable important parameters, etc.

I know I'm lazy, I just hate to see great ideas go unused because they're too obscure for the general musician/producer. More iPhone, less Linux Terminal.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2017/01/02 10:26:46 (permalink)
coming back to this:

how do I do this if it is already in audio format?
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2017/01/02 10:34:53 (permalink)
brundlefly
I found that his CAL added more Pan events than necessary, and didn't really give the synth any time to respond to the pan message before the note event - maybe not a problem for soft synths, but could be an issue with hardware synths.
 
FWIW, below is a revised version that inserts only one message per note, and inserts it 30 ticks before each note. I didn't take time to make this 'lead time' user-specified or to automatically insert a message at 1:01:000 when the first note event is less than 30 ticks in. As noted in the CAL description, setting the Pan widget in the MIDI track will suffice to establish the initial position.
 
I have not 'bomb-proofed' this this script to avoid failure or bad results with unexpected input (e.g. chords) or to make it as efficient as possible so I can't make any guarantees of efficacy in all cases, but here it is:
 
;NotePan.CAL by David Baay, modified significantly from the original by Alisa Miller
;
; This CAL script will insert alternating Pan (CC10) events 30 ticks before each note event at 1:01:030 or later.
; If any notes occur before 1:01:030, the Track Pan should be set to the value equal to the left pan setting that you
; intend to set using the CAL to set the initial pan position before playback starts.
 
(do
(int count 0)
(int left 0)
(int right 127)
(int position 127)
 
  ;Get Min and Max Pan values to determine Pan changes
(getInt left "Enter the left pan amount" 0 64)
(getInt right "Enter the right pan amount" 64 127)
 (= position right)
   (forEachEvent
     (if (&& (>= Event.Time 30) (== Event.Kind NOTE))
       (do
         (insert (- Event.Time 30) Event.Chan CONTROL 10 (= Control.Val position))
         (if (<= position 64)
           (= position right)
           (= position left); else
         );end if
       );end do
     ); end if
  ); end for
); end do




 
the modified CAL leads to this



#20
AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2017/01/02 10:37:03 (permalink)
Soundwise
There you go. Save this code as NotePan.CAL in your Sonar CAL scripts folder.
Then select a track you want to insert MIDI pan to, hit CTRL+F1, browse to your CAL scripts folder, choose NotePan.CAL. Enjoy!
 

 
;
;NotePan.CAL by Alisa Miller
;
;This CAL program will insert a determined pan event (CC 10) after each note event.
;

(do
  (int count 0)
  (int left 0)
  (int right 127)

;; Get Min and Max Pan values to determine Pan changes
 (getInt left "Enter the left pan amount" 0 64)
 (getInt right "Enter the right pan amount" 64 127)

    (forEachEvent
      (if (== Event.Kind NOTE)
        (do
          (if (== count 0)
            (insert (+ Event.Time 1) Event.Chan CONTROL 10 (= Control.Val left)
            )
          )
           (++ count)
           (insert (+ Event.Time 0) Event.Chan CONTROL 10 (= Control.Val right))
         (if (== count 2)
              (= count 0) ; if count is 2, reset to 0
         NIL
          )
        )
      )
    )
)
 





 
i notice with this one if you have some fast 16ths notes it doesnt have enough time to change the pan, the notes get all messed up
#21
AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2017/01/02 10:41:15 (permalink)
Strange that the pan knob doesnt move as this is happening too.
 
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brundlefly
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2017/01/02 13:07:42 (permalink)
SilverBlueMedallion
 
the modified CAL leads to this






Sorry about that; should have double-checked. The forum software is unavoidably adding spaces to the blank line returns between sections. I added semicolons to those lines in my original post to work around it. You can just delete the spaces from your copy.

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brundlefly
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2017/01/02 13:28:07 (permalink)
SilverBlueMedallion
Strange that the pan knob doesnt move as this is happening too.
 


MIDI track widgets are controls, not indicators. They send an initial message on the forced output channel (or channel 1 by default) when playback is started, and will send messages in real time if moved during playback (or by automation envelopes), but they don't 'read' messages embedded in the track. A single MIDI track could potentially contain controllers for any or all of the 16 midi channels moving independently in which case it wouldn't make sense for the widget to follow every controller in the track.

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tlw
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2017/01/02 16:08:20 (permalink)
Melda do a free version of their audio autopanner, it works very well indeed and can sync to a huge range of note values and with customisable wave-form and pan laws.
 
If what's needed is to pan hits that aren't quantised/dead in time so syncing and using fixed note values and a steady fixed tempo square/rectangular wave LFO won't work I'd do the panning the way Craig Anderson suggests.
 
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Soundwise
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2017/01/04 13:06:05 (permalink)
SilverBlueMedallion
 
i notice with this one if you have some fast 16ths notes it doesnt have enough time to change the pan, the notes get all messed up


It is strange. Works flawlessly here.

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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2017/01/04 14:17:59 (permalink)
My guess is results will vary depending on what synth you're driving. Not allowing at least a few milliseconds between a CC message and the next Note On is always potentially problematic. And different synths will likely respond differently to pan messages received while a note is sounding, depending on the MIDI implementation.

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Soundwise
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2017/01/04 14:31:09 (permalink)
brundlefly
My guess is results will vary depending on what synth you're driving. Not allowing at least a few milliseconds between a CC message and the next Note On is always potentially problematic. And different synths will likely respond differently to pan messages received while a note is sounding, depending on the MIDI implementation.


I agree with you but I'm not an advanced CAL user and couldn't put together a working script that inserts a CC a few ticks ahead of the event. Maybe you can help me to find a clear description of CAL scripting language?

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brundlefly
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2017/01/04 14:45:44 (permalink)
My CAL skills are rusty, and were never far beyond rudimentary. This is the only language reference I know of:
 
    http://members.ziggo.nl/t...rogramming%20Guide.pdf
 
If you check my version of your CAL, you'll see it's subtracting 30 ticks from Event.Time in the insert statement:
 
(insert (- Event.Time 30) Event.Chan CONTROL 10 (= Control.Val position))
 
EDIT: Fixed the hyperlink
 
 
 
 
post edited by brundlefly - 2017/01/04 16:09:49

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#29
Soundwise
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Re: How To Alternate Panning (Per Note)? 2017/01/04 15:02:23 (permalink)
That link doesn't work for me
Het opgevraagde bestand/pagina is niet bekend

brundlefly
If you check my version of your CAL, you'll see it's subtracting 30 ticks from Event.Time in the insert statement:
 
(insert (- Event.Time 30) Event.Chan CONTROL 10 (= Control.Val position))

For some reason this doesn't work, I get "CAL Error 014 Value out of range" pop-up.
 

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