Hotice226
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How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
I recorded a piano track in stereo using my Stereo Channels 3-4 on my Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. Track levels are great and the pan function is fine, but I need a way widen the stereo field (or change spread placement or narrow on future projects) without using effects. Is there a way to do this on a stereo channel or do I have to create 2 separate channels (one for left and one for right) and route them to a piano bus to accomplish?
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tlw
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 09:17:47
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Sonar's Channel Tools plugin can manipulate stereo width and spread.
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jimkleban
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 09:29:52
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Without a PLUGIN, the only way I know how to accomplish managing the stereo field is by recording 2 mono tracks instead of one stereo track (like in the old days when desks only had mono tracks).
The Lamb Laid Down on MIDI www.lldom.com Studio Cat Custom i7 with Thunderbolt (wonderful system built and configured by our own Jim R) Apollo Duo (via TB) UAD Quad UAD Duo WIN 8.1 x64 with 32 GB Ram 4 SSD for programs and sample libraries Splat (latest version)
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Hotice226
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 09:33:33
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Thanks for the quick reply! I was hoping to avoid another plugin for resource reasons. Nonetheless... when you're talking about the Channel Tools, are you referring to the Pro-Channel or an Effects plugin under Cakewalk? I'm not by my computer now, but I believe I've used the Stereo Enhancer by Nomad before. It works ok, but I mainly use that on group buses or master. What I was hoping to find is a function that would allow me to pan the left and right channel of that track independently similar to this stereo track found in Pro Tools (see the last example in the picture below). 
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Hotice226
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 09:36:49
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jimkleban
Without a PLUGIN, the only way I know how to accomplish managing the stereo field is by recording 2 mono tracks instead of one stereo track (like in the old days when desks only had mono tracks).
Oh ok. I was afraid that was the case. It's no biggie, but a workflow eye-sore to me. Thanks! <p>Thanks for the quick reply! I was hoping to avoid another plugin for resource reasons. Nonetheless... when you're talking about the Channel Tools, are you referring to the Pro-Channel or an Effects plugin under Cakewalk?</p> <p> </p> <p>I'm not by my computer now, but I believe I've used the Stereo Enhancer by Nomad before. It works ok, but I mainly use that on group buses or master. What I was hoping to find is a function that would allow me to pan the left and right channel of that track independently similar to this stereo track found in Pro Tools (see the last example in the picture below).</p> <p><img src="https://macprovid.vo.llnwd.net/o43/hub/media/1088/7399/Image_4.png" alt="" width="444" height="537" /></p> <p> </p>
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Beepster
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 09:54:33
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2017/01/11 12:29:11
Channels Tools is a plugin. Just look for it in your VST list. It's much more flexible than the Nomad Blue Tubes Stereo Imager thingie. Be sure to read the F1 help on it before using it so you can understand what all the various controls do.
It is a very useful plug and should not cause too much of a resource hit.
Cheers.
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glennstanton
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 11:15:09
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☄ Helpfulby FCCfirstclass 2017/01/11 11:33:04
i setup my normal template to use a 2.1 configuration (and ignore the LFE channel) and this allows me to use the surround panner to set stereo channels width, position, and "depth". i can then do things like push reverb out just past the speaker boundaries and set the "room delay" to the edges which gives a nice room feel. for bass and bass drum, unless i have a stereo effect, i keep them mono and centered but may vary the depth. guitars, keys, backing vox etc i can adjust the width etc to get the placement i like. i usually start mixing using a single mono avantone speaker (centered) and once things feel about right i switch to the stereo monitors.
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gcolbert
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 17:34:17
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2017/01/11 17:36:27
Channel Tools plugin is really what you want. Low CPU load.
Glen
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jimkleban
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 17:56:44
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Not sure if Channel tools is better.... i feel like i can control stereo fields better with 2 mono tracks. Don't get me wrong, channel tools is great if you want to additionally add delay for pseudo automatic double tracking but two mono tracks give me the feeling of more precision in reducing then moving the stereo field. I probably will be proven wrong here and I hope I am so I can learn something now.
Jim
The Lamb Laid Down on MIDI www.lldom.com Studio Cat Custom i7 with Thunderbolt (wonderful system built and configured by our own Jim R) Apollo Duo (via TB) UAD Quad UAD Duo WIN 8.1 x64 with 32 GB Ram 4 SSD for programs and sample libraries Splat (latest version)
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Beepster
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 18:08:59
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jimkleban
Not sure if Channel tools is better.... i feel like i can control stereo fields better with 2 mono tracks. Don't get me wrong, channel tools is great if you want to additionally add delay for pseudo automatic double tracking but two mono tracks give me the feeling of more precision in reducing then moving the stereo field. I probably will be proven wrong here and I hope I am so I can learn something now.
Jim
I personally keep pretty much everything on the track side of my mixer in Mono and do any fancy stereo work on the busses (or these days in Aux tracks as needed). Also keep in mind mono clips/signals can be outputted in stereo interleave for stereo effects. That is where Channel Tools can also be helpful. AAAAAAND Channel Tools does Mid/Side processing as well which AFAIK is not possible on a regular track in Sonar. In fact I'm pretty sure CT was Cakewalk's answer to the lack of on track dual stereo pan controls (as shown in OP's Pro Tools screecaps above) and M/S processing. Can't be sure about that but it does seem like that's the modus operandi when the core program can't do something specific that others can (ie: create a plug/module scheme so as not to entirely disrupt the coding/workflow potentially leading to much bigger problems and/or the cost/headache of Baking such things directly into the main program). meh... now I'm just blathering. Also... I ain't no pro talking type dood.
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Beepster
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 18:34:30
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Also, it should be noted OP is talking about a piano track which is one of the scenarios where a stereo track recorded from a stereo pair of mics is actually desirable. Kind of like drum overheads/room mics. It's actually more of a pain trying to manage two mono tracks in these scenarios (you don't want two sets of effects and generally want them to mirror each other, etc...).
Splitting that stereo piano track could cause more pain than it's worth whereas if some finicky stereo shenanigans are needed CT can do it without splitting the track.
That said... it would be nice if Sonar stereo tracks could do the stuff CT does with on track controls.
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Paul G
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 18:48:29
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Hotice226
I recorded a piano track in stereo using my Stereo Channels 3-4 on my Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. Track levels are great and the pan function is fine, but I need a way widen the stereo field (or change spread placement or narrow on future projects) without using effects. Is there a way to do this on a stereo channel or do I have to create 2 separate channels (one for left and one for right) and route them to a piano bus to accomplish?
If you send the stereo track to a surround bus you'll have quite a bit of control. Sorry, I don't remember where I first heard that, but I've used it. HTH
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Anderton
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 18:59:27
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jimkleban
Not sure if Channel tools is better.... i feel like i can control stereo fields better with 2 mono tracks. Don't get me wrong, channel tools is great if you want to additionally add delay for pseudo automatic double tracking but two mono tracks give me the feeling of more precision in reducing then moving the stereo field. I probably will be proven wrong here and I hope I am so I can learn something now.
Jim Think of Channel Tools as a "Stereo-to-Dual-Mono Converter." That stereo track is actually two mono tracks sitting in the same "container." Channel Tools - I mean, the Stereo-to-Dual-Mono Converter - basically opens up that container and treats the stereo track as two mono tracks. But it's actually more flexible than the Pro Tools dual panpot approach because not only can you move those two mono tracks anywhere you want in the stereo field, they can have width in the stereo field. If you have "The Big Book of SONAR Tips," go to page 16 for the tip "Add Pro Tools-Stlye Dual Panpots to SONAR." Here's what it's about: From time to time, some people wish that like Pro Tools, SONAR had separate panpots for the left and right channels. The reason why Pro Tools has two panpots is because it traditionally treated stereo as two mono sources, very much like the hardware mixing consoles that were common in the mid- to late-20th century. Like most DAWs, SONAR does understand the difference between stereo and mono signals. This is why for mono tracks the panpot acts like a traditional panpot, but for stereo signals, it acts like a balance control. However there are advantages to the dual panpot approach, as it allows “weighting” the stereo image more to the left, right, or center. The ultimate solution is the Channel Tools plug-in, which not only allows each channel to pan anywhere in the stereo field, but also has a Width control so that each channel can spread across part of the stereo field, or all of it.While flexible, you might not want to have to open up Channel Tools to do this kind of advanced panning. However, it’s possible to integrate Channel Tools’ functionality right into the Console View’s channel strips by using the Channel Strip’s “Show Assignable Controls” option.
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Unknowen
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 20:13:22
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Just make a copy of your stereo track and then pan at will left and right.. Dave lazy tip on the day. ;)
Hum? does that sound right?
Hay look, Somethings are not locked in stone... lol 3/18/2019
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Beepster
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 20:53:20
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You changed your name AGAIN, Dave?
...
I'm out.
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Unknowen
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 21:18:00
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Beepster
You changed your name AGAIN, Dave?
...
I'm out.
lol, yes, long ago... I do that all the time. I just get board and like a change. I have changed band names a few time a year as well... build new logos, websites.... . You think I'm hiding from something? ;) We should really be friends... its been a long time... rejection is futile... :) peace!
Hay look, Somethings are not locked in stone... lol 3/18/2019
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Hotice226
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 21:47:16
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Anderton
jimkleban
Not sure if Channel tools is better.... i feel like i can control stereo fields better with 2 mono tracks. Don't get me wrong, channel tools is great if you want to additionally add delay for pseudo automatic double tracking but two mono tracks give me the feeling of more precision in reducing then moving the stereo field. I probably will be proven wrong here and I hope I am so I can learn something now.
Jim
Think of Channel Tools as a "Stereo-to-Dual-Mono Converter." That stereo track is actually two mono tracks sitting in the same "container." Channel Tools - I mean, the Stereo-to-Dual-Mono Converter - basically opens up that container and treats the stereo track as two mono tracks.
But it's actually more flexible than the Pro Tools dual panpot approach because not only can you move those two mono tracks anywhere you want in the stereo field, they can have width in the stereo field.
If you have "The Big Book of SONAR Tips," go to page 16 for the tip "Add Pro Tools-Stlye Dual Panpots to SONAR." Here's what it's about:
From time to time, some people wish that like Pro Tools, SONAR had separate panpots for the left and right channels. The reason why Pro Tools has two panpots is because it traditionally treated stereo as two mono sources, very much like the hardware mixing consoles that were common in the mid- to late-20th century. Like most DAWs, SONAR does understand the difference between stereo and mono signals. This is why for mono tracks the panpot acts like a traditional panpot, but for stereo signals, it acts like a balance control.
However there are advantages to the dual panpot approach, as it allows “weighting” the stereo image more to the left, right, or center. The ultimate solution is the Channel Tools plug-in, which not only allows each channel to pan anywhere in the stereo field, but also has a Width control so that each channel can spread across part of the stereo field, or all of it.
While flexible, you might not want to have to open up Channel Tools to do this kind of advanced panning. However, it’s possible to integrate Channel Tools’ functionality right into the Console View’s channel strips by using the Channel Strip’s “Show Assignable Controls” option.
All the chatter has been super helpful, but this snapshot from "The Big Book of SONAR Tips" is money! I might have to snag my own copy. Thx everyone.
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Anderton
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 21:50:05
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Hotice226
All the chatter has been super helpful, but this snapshot from "The Big Book of SONAR Tips" is money! I might have to snag my own copy. Thx everyone.
I would highly recommend it. Not that I'm biased, of course. 
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chuckebaby
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Re: How To Change Stereo Spread on Stereo Channel
2017/01/11 22:31:07
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to the OP, Have you ever had a mix where frequency's are fighting against each other and you just need some kind of way to get a track to stand out (Vocal, Guitar lead, exc) yes...well then work on EQ first  . But if you have exhausted all resources, use channel tools. it will take a little bit to get the jest of it, even though it is a fairly simple plug in to use it manipulates the stereo field, tricking your ear in to thinking the track "Pops out" more.
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