How To ? - Define Instruments (patch names, etc) for VST Instrument

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williamcopper
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2015/03/18 14:50:43 (permalink)

How To ? - Define Instruments (patch names, etc) for VST Instrument

Can't find a way to define my VST instrument tracks with Instrument definitions (as in Preferences - Midi - Instruments).   Is it possible somehow?   Many setups use fixed banks of instruments, and referring to them by name is much easier than as "patch 1" "patch 17" "patch 83" ....
 
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    John
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    Re: How To ? - Define Instruments (patch names, etc) for VST Instrument 2015/03/18 15:18:43 (permalink)
    Instrument definitions are for hardware synths not VSTis. All VSTis have there own list of patches. 

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    John
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    Re: How To ? - Define Instruments (patch names, etc) for VST Instrument 2015/03/19 18:37:31 (permalink)
    Which VSTi's are you using? CW does a pretty good job for this already and of course it gets complicated.
     
    Almost all VSTis rely on their own internal patch selectors (like IL, etc). I think what you want is a quick way to use a text file to define some patch maps, like a drum map but using the bank select/PC msgs with text for the VST. An .ins file system might work but I'm not aware that it can be done. I don't think that there are any linkages to particular VSTis and their states other than SyProperty page presets.
     
    If handled kind of like drum maps it would be handy. If VSTs publish names/patches, CW uses them but only pretty old VSTs do these days. Of course, we'd need to be making/naming our own Patch maps and the folks at CW will never be able to help with unpublished mystery VSTi patch maps. For instance, I load up my Rapture and there isn't any patch map. I understand why and it isn't a problem. 
     
    Some of the internal CW VSTis do this. The GrooveSynth publishes a pretty detailed patch map available from the inspector, but it doesn't appear to be editable. It isn't particularly easy to use either. I just select patches directly from the VST and save the project. This does make some multi-timbral stuff awkward for those who like to use patch changes mid track rather than in a separate track. GM/S vstis do this pretty well usually, but those probably aren't one's you are asking about.
     
    VSTis generally don't follow the midi patch/bank selection model, but creating new copies of a VST isn't a big CPU load to mix, match, edit patches. Auditioning patches is still a PITA, but I save synth presets when I'm getting close to something I like, and then CW is happy and selections are pretty easy.
     
    My solution: Start with VST manual patch selection (can't do it by name from sonar directly), tweak,  finish with a Synth preset save (and if needed a VST preset save or even a synth track template). Save-as new Project. Move on.
    post edited by m.letcher@q.com - 2015/03/19 18:48:12
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    williamcopper
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    Re: How To ? - Define Instruments (patch names, etc) for VST Instrument 2015/03/19 20:13:23 (permalink)
    This is for Kontakt 5 and Gplayer on windows 7.   I'm aware that each is different, but I use a limited set of Instrument Banks (Kontakt) and loaded setups for G Player.   In the system I'm migrating from, windows xp, Sonar (Sonar 5) was loaded from within Gigastudio3, and then the gigastudio midi inputs were shown as Sonar midi outputs, allowing instrument definitions to be applied.  I made very extensive Instrument definitions for my collection of gigastudio "gsps" and it was a big help to load "violin pizzicato mf" rather than bank 17, instrument 43.    In sonar platinum, and perhaps earlier too, the VST instruments work through midi, but the midi input/output paths do not show up in the midi device lists, and so I cannot apply any instrument definitions to them. 
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    Re: How To ? - Define Instruments (patch names, etc) for VST Instrument 2015/03/19 22:21:37 (permalink)
    I don't have either VST and can no longer really suggest anything. If not relevant, please disregard.
     
    I don't recall VST's ever showing up in the Preferences/Midi Devices as options to be assigned an 'Instrument' map (though it would be nice to manually select even a txt file for VSTs with particular maps, at the users peril of course. VSTs aren't really midi devices, just emulations. The VST patch selection by name capability question is what caused me to check your thread. HW doesn't publish patch names, thus external patch maps. VSTs do publish patch names. Midi selection of VST patches is pretty problematic even if there was a name display. 
     
    Are you really loading Sonar into GStudio? As a VST or what, maybe a rewire? I do load FLS as a VST into itself, but I haven't tried that yet in Sonar as I didn't think Sonar even ran as a VST that could get loaded into something else.
     
    Do you want to see VSTs in the Pref/Instruments output/channel area to select a custom 'instrument' map?
    It seems like you're loading GStudio into Sonar and trying to use Sonar's patch selection capabilities from the browser using an instrument map for GS. If so, GS should be publishing its patch names to Sonar though it may not. 
    I'm a bit confused so will sign off.
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    williamcopper
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    Re: How To ? - Define Instruments (patch names, etc) for VST Instrument 2015/03/19 22:30:03 (permalink)
    Thanks for the note.   The Gigastudio method was my old way of working, on windows xp; limited to 32 bit, and so limited as to what could be loaded.   New way, I'm using the VSTs loaded from within sonar.   I'm thinking a work-around might be to define some fake midi ports (using LoopMidi or the like), assign instrument definitions to them, then routing them to the vsts.   Not sure if this will work ..
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    Re: How To ? - Define Instruments (patch names, etc) for VST Instrument 2015/03/20 18:31:56 (permalink)
    I've been using MidiYoke to pipe stuff in and out. It installs on x64 but is a bit fussy. I've seen 2 other 64b virt-midi port tools, but wasn't too impressed.  Maybe just too new for me. 
     
    If you export the midi be sure to check the audio routing for returns.I don't think you'll get patch names into Sonar this way either. Presets seem to be the way to go. I actually use templates a lot if I get something set up that I like.
     
    Oddly, I just checked my SPro and didn't see my MidiYoke ports. At one point, I did have them all setup and working in S. And, shutting Sonar and starting FLS, I see my MidiYoke ports, re-start S and no show. I'm not interested in a re-boot now, but will put the item on the suspicious list. 
     
    I doubt using SW midi ports will get you where you seem to want to go, anyway unless it's stand-alone audio.
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