gstring
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How can I record midi without a metronome and then align to grid to produce a score?
There are times when I just want to record a piano track (in Sonar 8 PE) without using a click track; however, I'd still like to be able to later bring in drums, etc. and print a score aligned to grid. I under stand that this would create a constantly moving tempo in the piece, but can an aligned score be produced without having to do a lot of fancy fiddling in the tempo map? There must be others who would also like to get this to work, as it frees one from the rigid constraints of recording to a metronome. I want my music to relax, breathe and run at will. I've tried recording a separate beat track of 1/4 notes along with my piano track. Is there some way to use midi groove to get the tempo to align to my beat track? Aside from midi groove being limited to 128 beats, I can't seem to get it to produce a varying tempo that fits my recording? Would an audio "beat" track, in conjunction with groove quantize or qudio snap, work better? Or is there a CAL script that can take my midi beat track and produce the needed tempo changes to get things aligned to measures? I've been trying to get this to work for years.
post edited by gstring - 2010/04/08 23:50:03
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CJaysMusic
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Re:How can I record midi without a metronome and then align to grid to produce a score?
2010/04/08 23:55:53
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You can quantize your midi afterwards or during recording (input quantize). If you want it to quantize to a specific drum beat, you that beat to extract the groove quantize The best thing to do (of course ) is to record a midi piano track that matches your beat/style of the song you want Cj
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gstring
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Re:How can I record midi without a metronome and then align to grid to produce a score?
2010/04/09 00:12:09
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Cj, won't quantization actually change the tempo/timing of what I recorded? I want to keep variable timing in my piece. I need to create an underlying tempo map to have the quarter notes fall into place on the score. The only other (less desirable) thing I know I can do is to record with a metronome then later draw in a variable tempo map. This allows me to have a perfectly aligned score, but kills the feeling of expression I'm trying to put into the original recording.
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forkol
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Re:How can I record midi without a metronome and then align to grid to produce a score?
2010/04/09 00:18:37
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The feature you want is called "Fit Improvisation". It should do exactly what you want. It will align your beats to grid by putting tempo changes in where necessary to line-up your beats to the grid. Hope this helps! Forkol
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mgh
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Re:How can I record midi without a metronome and then align to grid to produce a score?
2010/04/09 00:19:18
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once you've recorded the midi info, freeze the soft synth to create an audio track, then use Audiosnap to create the tempo map for your tune...
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rbowser
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Re:How can I record midi without a metronome and then align to grid to produce a score?
2010/04/09 00:26:08
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Hi, gstring--oh, it just struck me what a provocative user name you have.---I like it. "...I'd still like to be able to later bring in drums, etc. and print a score aligned to grid..." IMHO, you're wanting to do more things with one project than can be done in practicality. If you want a score of your work, it has to be absolutely, perfectly quantized, and it's best printed from a program like Sibelius or Finale instead of Sonar's rudimentary Staff View. No matter what tools we have, I can't imagine a totally free-time piece recorded without a metronome ever getting tamed into a printable score. - And to bring "drums etc" in-- the "etc" would be a bit easier to lay in, using loops to record new instrument tracks over and over while you get used to the unique timing of the segment - but drums?-- much harder to pull off and sound natural. Drums are there to lock in a tempo - what kind of groove, no matter how jazzy and free-form it may--can they do when the tempo is constantly in flux? I feel the results would sound like a beginning drummer who can't keep a beat. I feel you need to not consume your time in trying to make this work. I would suggest having fun recording free-time for your pleasure, and then when you want to get serious about formalizing a piece you've come up--then doing the work of learning to play what you've improvised, and recording it anew with a metronome so you can accomplish your goals of adding more instruments and printing a legible score. EDIT: Other replies with good suggestions came in while I was writing my post. I've used "fit to improvisation" and Audio Snap to create a tempo map. I feel they wouldn't yield the results you're wanting. Lots of trial and error involved if you insist working this way. For me, it's better to just get over the "problem" of working with a metronome - it doesn't have to be a creative freedom buster. rbowser
post edited by rbowser - 2010/04/09 00:29:59
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CJaysMusic
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Re:How can I record midi without a metronome and then align to grid to produce a score?
2010/04/09 00:36:06
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Cj, won't quantization actually change the tempo/timing of what I recorded your project tempo decides your midi tempo
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gstring
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Re:How can I record midi without a metronome and then align to grid to produce a score?
2010/04/09 01:13:26
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Thanks guys for your quick replies, but it seems like forkol hit the nail on the head with "fit improvisation". I used my 1/4 note beat track as the reference then did "fit improvisation". It messed up a little at the beginning, as my beat track did not start at measure one, and it also stretched my audio beyond limits. But I'm sure that this is the way to go; I just need to make sure I do the fit after the bed track is laid down and before any audio tracks are added. I need a little practise in tweeking the reference beat track, but I think this is it. I got a wild and wonderful tempo map, but the midi track lined up perfectly with the measures in the score. I usually make a copy of the project just for the score. In this way I can do some quantizing to get the notes to align precisely with the measures without messing up the sound tracks. I'm anxious to try a new project from scratch and see how it comes together. mgh's suggestion to freeze the synth then create an audio track to produce a tempo map via audio snap also looks promising, but I haven't tried it yet. gstring
post edited by gstring - 2010/04/09 01:23:13
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dilletant
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Re:How can I record midi without a metronome and then align to grid to produce a score?
2010/04/09 07:28:27
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brundlefly
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Re:How can I record midi without a metronome and then align to grid to produce a score?
2010/04/09 13:04:39
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One update to the above: It's no longer necessary to use F7 to set the Now time to the beginning of each note event, because you can now tab to MIDI notes in 8.5. This feature was a godsend for me, and speeds up the process considerably. Unfortunately, as I brought up in a recent thread, Set Measure/Beat At Now is not working exactly as it should since the 8.5.3 patch, and I'm having to go back to my 8.3.1 install to do this right. I just pinged Cakewalk tech support again yesterday about my unanswered CWBRN-2568 - Set Measure/Beat At Now Doesn't.
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dilletant
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Re:How can I record midi without a metronome and then align to grid to produce a score?
2010/04/10 06:43:37
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I can't believe something useful is broken after update. I was going to upgrade from 7 to 8.5 on Monday but now I see it's too early...
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brundlefly
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Re:How can I record midi without a metronome and then align to grid to produce a score?
2010/04/10 11:18:57
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I was going to upgrade from 7 to 8.5 on Monday but now I see it's too early... Set Measure/Beat At Now is good up through the 8.5.2 patch. It's only the most recent patch that broke it. But 8.5.2 had other AudioSnap issues that worked better in earlier releases that werre again fixed in 8.5.3... Caught between the Scylla and Charybis... I'll be wrapped around your finger...
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