How can I tame the cymbals?

I have been recording my band drummer using the simple Recorder Man technique using two overhead microphones, but also with a mic on the kick for some bottom reinforcement and occasionally a mic on the snare drum. My problem is that the cymbals tend to override the rest of the drums. I have asked the drummer to not be so heavy on the cymbals and restrain a little, but in the heat of the song adrenalin seems to take over.
 
Is there another technique where cymbals don't record as pronounced? Should I do away with overheads and just mic up individual drums and perhaps a room mic?
Getting another drummer is not an option. :(
 
 
 
 

No amount of production will solve the problem. The issue is with the playing itself. Drums are tricky. Some things need to be hit hard. eg toms, other things require immediate change in the amount of power required to produce a very audible sound eg cymbals. It takes skill to be able to regulate the power required in the middle of all that playing where you are hitting various surfaces but control power hits for the toms but much softer hits for other things. 
 
He needs to practice playing and record himself all the time and listen to how bad it all sounds. The reason I have so much control after all these years is because I have been recording myself playing for many years and I have adjusted the power required for the various surfaces for a very even and well balanced recorded result. There is no other way to do it.
 
Excitement has nothing to do with volume. That is where 99% of drummers get it wrong. Excitement results from intensity and intention and conviction in the groove. Great drummers can create the excitement at low volume.  One of my drum teachers told me let the excitement and power and volume flow but just hold it all back at the wrists and let it through in just the right amounts.    Let the PA do all he work out front. A lot of very loud drum sounds out front are often not that loud on stage.  That is a very cool situation to play in.

I was also going to suggest the issue might reside with the drummer and how he/she plays in the studio. I also agree with Jeff...processing won't help you fix a track.  Record again after having a talk with the drummer and possibly rearranging the mics.
 
Unless you mic every part of the kit individually into unique tracks, you will have to rely on the drummer to assist in getting the sound needed. Most other players can let it rip and simply turn the volume knob down... drums are a bit different.
 
With overhead mics... they are closest to the cymbals. If the drummer rides those cymbals hard, that's what you will hear. I played in a band with a drummer like that. He actually broke and cracked his cymbals on a regular basis he hit them so hard. Also shredded lots of sticks on the cymbal edges. Cymbals started and ended every song and if he didn't have cymbals, I don't think he would have been able to play.  When our band could afford it, we ended up miking the entire kit so we could hear the rest of the drums.  No cymbal mics were needed.

Trying to talk to him about dynamic playing was futile.  The cat was good and could keep the groove and backbeat going..... but cymbals..... oh those cymbals.... they were one of the contributing factors to my high frequency hearing loss today.

Guitarhacker
 
The cat was good and could keep the groove and backbeat going..... but cymbals..... oh those cymbals....

Our guy has a habit of closing his eyes and "getting in the groove". Makes it dambed  hard getting his attention on stage sometimes.

optimus
I have been recording my band drummer using the simple Recorder Man technique using two overhead microphones, but also with a mic on the kick for some bottom reinforcement and occasionally a mic on the snare drum. My problem is that the cymbals tend to override the rest of the drums. I have asked the drummer to not be so heavy on the cymbals and restrain a little, but in the heat of the song adrenalin seems to take over.
 
Is there another technique where cymbals don't record as pronounced? Should I do away with overheads and just mic up individual drums and perhaps a room mic?
 

Can't you just play the recording back to him,
so he can hear how his playing is translating to the mic?
 
and then ask him "is this the way you WANT to sound?
 
 
LOL
 
 
 
beyond that, if you are stuck with bad drum tracks, and have to use them, SUBTRACTIVE EQ.
 
and to a lesser degree, multiband compression, where you ONLY USE the bands you need to tame the cymbals.
 

How about recording two takes: 1) Normal setup, 2) Take away the cymbals.
 
Mostly kidding, but maybe it would work?
 
Regards,
Dan
 

Thank you all for your considered suggestion. Looks like I have a bit of work ahead.
 
AT, I do have a couple of MXL ribbons and have tried them. Oddly, they seemed to exacibate the  problem. I don't have a high ceiling so maybe the figure 8 patten picked up too much ceiling. I had better results with SDC mics, though still not good.
 
Anyways, nothing like a challenge, and as I haven't done a lot of real drum recording, I'm sure going to learn something.

awareness....
 
is HUGE
 
for drummers.
 
even when you watch vids of Bonham playing,
he always FINESSED the cymbals even as he appeared to be crushing them.
 
he was extremely aware of his overall mix,
 
the other side of the 'classic rock' coin would be alex van halen, who just bashes the cymbals,
that's why all of their songs are just a non stop wash of cymbals..
but that kind of works for van halen,
so it's all relevant.
 
 
but when you can hear that it is wrong, it is wrong.
 
great thing is, it's so easy to fix (at the drummer)
and, the end result is awesomeness.