ramtin
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How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
Hi every body, can anyone tell me how can we convert Audio or MP3 file to a GM 16 tracks file using sonar x1? Regards, Ramtin
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jscomposer
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 15:24:02
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Convert a single audio file to a 16 track General MIDI file? Impossible.
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dubdisciple
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 15:30:02
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I can't think of a way to even attempt it that does not involve more work than re-creating the file in sonar. Even Meloldyne Editor would be hard pressed to perform such a task
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Keni
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 15:49:16
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I guess you could try it... Individually convert each audio track to MIDI using Melodyne... You'll need the full version if you have polyphonic audio tracks (chords)...
Long job and will probably need a lot of editing along the way... ;-)
Keni
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dubdisciple
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 15:52:56
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Keni I guess you could try it... Individually convert each audio track to MIDI using Melodyne... You'll need the full version if you have polyphonic audio tracks (chords)...
Long job and will probably need a lot of editing along the way... ;-)
Keni
Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but it seemed like he wanted to take a single audio file like a fully mixed song and extract it to gm file.
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John
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 16:26:08
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Yep that is what the OP seems to want. I agree its near impossible. At the least very difficult.
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stevec
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 16:31:31
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^^^^ Time consuming at best, if even possible. I can only imagine using EQ, stereo imaging and/or something like R-MIX to try and isolate each track, then convert each track to MIDI using Melodyne (or VVocal in X1). And then... clean up the results of each MIDI track to suit. Or... perhaps try to find existing MIDI versions online?
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John
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 16:51:15
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The phrase hens teeth comes to mind. Snipe hunt anyone?
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Jeff Evans
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 17:47:48
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☄ Helpfulby Mystic38 2013/11/19 05:03:08
There are two main alternatives. 1 Hunt down the midi file for the song on line. It is pretty amazing how many midi files are out there either free or paid. Millions in fact. Pay for it if you need to. It is often only a few dollars anyway and well worth the trouble below. 2 Use you musical skills and transcribe the parts one by one and program them all in midi in a DAW. Done it many times. Time consuming. But back to point 1 above. Have not done that lately because the midi file is usually out there somewhere. Unless it is a something unusual or rare then that only leaves you to do it as in point 2 here. This is good for you and and good practice in listening skills and programming skills.
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Keni
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 19:24:03
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dubdisciple
Keni I guess you could try it... Individually convert each audio track to MIDI using Melodyne... You'll need the full version if you have polyphonic audio tracks (chords)...
Long job and will probably need a lot of editing along the way... ;-)
Keni
Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but it seemed like he wanted to take a single audio file like a fully mixed song and extract it to gm file.
<ouch>... My apology... I didn't catch that... Ok... All I can think ther would be multiple passes attempting to isolate individual instruments with R-Mix... Then do as I previously mentioned... That's really a tall order even for machine intelligence.... Yet... But I see this has already been mentioned... I agree that it's probably far easier to find and taylor an existing MIDI file than to attempt creating it from a single stereo file... Keni
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mettelus
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 19:34:06
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With X1, R-Mix and Melodyne would not be included. Even with Melodyne Editor, I played with this to see how well the polyphonic version could extract notes... and it wasn't the prettiest sight to behold.
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Keni
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 19:54:09
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mettelus With X1, R-Mix and Melodyne would not be included. Even with Melodyne Editor, I played with this to see how well the polyphonic version could extract notes... and it wasn't the prettiest sight to behold.
Sorry to hear that part... I've been expecting miracles from it after all people talking about it... So if it's not for they polyphony, I guess the only other reason to upgrade Melodyne to full Editor would be the control of formant? I don't see that in the version given with X3... Sorry to drift off topic... Keni
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robert_e_bone
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 20:02:42
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I spent 30 days on a trial of the full-blown Melodyne, precisely to try to extract midi notes from a mixed WAV tune file, and after LONG hours of trying all kinds of isolation techniques for the various frequency ranges of the instruments, it just came out horribly, and I now firmly believe that unless the song is something like Chop Sticks, it is just not going to happen. The Melodyne documentation tells you right up front that it is NOT designed for extraction from mixed files, and even with the polyphonic version, it tells you that you need access to each of the individual instrument/vocal tracks. I agree with the other above posts that if the song is a cover of something already done, that there may well be an existing midi version out there. I myself have found and downloaded literally several thousand midi files, most of which are of REALLY good quality. Your other choice is to either figure it out yourself, (which I do all the time for hard to find progressive/fusion tunes), or hire someone to do it for you. Good luck, Bob Bone
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robert_e_bone
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 20:04:30
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Keni
mettelus With X1, R-Mix and Melodyne would not be included. Even with Melodyne Editor, I played with this to see how well the polyphonic version could extract notes... and it wasn't the prettiest sight to behold.
Sorry to hear that part... I've been expecting miracles from it after all people talking about it... So if it's not for they polyphony, I guess the only other reason to upgrade Melodyne to full Editor would be the control of formant? I don't see that in the version given with X3...
Sorry to drift off topic...
Keni
Keni - the Melodyne Editor DOES do a real good job with individual instrument tracks, it is just not able to do the same level of translation/extraction from a mixed file, as there are just too many frequencies all mashed together. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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mettelus
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/18 20:16:57
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Keni
mettelus With X1, R-Mix and Melodyne would not be included. Even with Melodyne Editor, I played with this to see how well the polyphonic version could extract notes... and it wasn't the prettiest sight to behold.
Sorry to hear that part... I've been expecting miracles from it after all people talking about it... So if it's not for they polyphony, I guess the only other reason to upgrade Melodyne to full Editor would be the control of formant? I don't see that in the version given with X3...
Sorry to drift off topic...
Keni
Hey Keni, there have been a lot of posts on Melodyne, but as with any program, it has its algorithm it runs to. The Editor is significantly more capable (i.e. polyphonic mode), but it is not by any means a panacea to catch each and every note that it hears. And in finished recordings (distortion, reverb, etc.), there are many artifacts or other notes that Melodyne will see as "discreet." They have a great video on why not to use the editor on a guitar with distortion... when you do edits, the "linkages" of the harmonics can be broken, and sound terrible. If you edit the clean guitar, then add distortion is sounds great. Melodyne is very effective if what you are feeding it conforms to how its algorithms run, i.e., the cleanest signal possible in gets the best results out. For this it works extremely well. My earlier post was from me "stress testing" things to see how much "could be done," and feeding Melodyne a signal laden with harmonics + effects on them is a clear "break point" for it. Feeding it a final mix was funny to see
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ramtin
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 02:56:16
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Dear Friends,When I was going to pose this subject, I was aware that, it is not at all an easy job! But I do not believe that it is impossible! When I reviewed the Threads,two posts Drew My attention: He had referred that, He was able to convert the file to midi tracks but the track result was horrible. Excellent! You had reached to 50% of target. He had described that, Melodyne is very effective. if what you are feeding it conforms to how its algorithms run, i.e., the cleanest signal possible in gets the best results out. For this it works extremely well. Great! It is the next 50% of target. Definitely, I am agree with the friends,who advised that, there are many Midi File available on net. Regularly I, download myself many Midi file to fulfill my requirement. But, Let be some creative and Look at this project as a challenge  There are many profissional creator and editor inside the forum. Lets do a team work and find an algorithm to "convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks" To start, Dear robert_e_bone,can you please share your Project and your algorithm to say, how you was success to change your Audio file to midi tracks? Dear mettelus,Can you please advise your algorithm to show, how can we clean the signal to get the best result? I also try to download Melodyne trial version (please somebody advise which version is more effective?) Dear other friends,As ever, I need you great Ideas. And do not forget this fact,that just: " Impossible" is impossible Regards, Ramtin
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Mystic38
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 05:06:22
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Sorry, but it cannot be done. period.
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mettelus
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 06:43:40
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+1... To do what you are attempting is not possible via any plugin or software that I am aware of. Melodyne is most effective on tracks where instruments are separated, and depending on computer, shorter passages rather than an entire song (Melodyne looks at the entire passage, not simply "time now" to process data). To answer your OP, I have done what you are asking, but it is a very manual, and potentially tedious process: - Put the audio of concern in track 1 and match the tempo of the song to fit that audio.
- Add MIDI tracks one at a time, and record them with the audio file as a template.
- Most passages in songs repeat, so that effort can be minimized by editing the required bars for intro, verse, chorus, etc., and copy/pasting to fill it in.
i.e. Jeff Evans' post...
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Guitarhacker
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 07:17:18
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When you listen to the midi files that are available for a given song, the midi file is often fairly close but certainly not an exact copy of the original song. That, by itself, tells me that someone transcribed the tune as best they could into a sequencer. The best results will come from hard work. Take the time to build the song track by track, transcribing each track note for note. At some point in the future, I am 100% sure that someone will develop software to do exactly what you are wanting..... but I don't think that time is yet. Some things are approaching that point. Case in point is Melodyne Editor..... totally amazing piece of software but it still will not make that conversion to midi from the mp3 or wave of a song.
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jscomposer
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 10:41:47
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Ramtin, there is literally no way to do this. If you can make a program to create an accurate 16 track general MIDI file from a single audio file, you should patent it!! This is totally impossible with current technology. Maybe down the road, but not now.
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Atsuko
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 10:51:58
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dubdisciple
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 12:45:49
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Let's say you could filter every instrument out perfectly to the point where melodyne could make q decent midi out of it. It would still be far more work than actually sequencing it. Even the best forensic audio engineers in the world would be hard pressed to isolate every sound in a typical song cleanly enough to get midi track equal to even an amateur attempt to transcribe . I do like a challenge though, so here is what i propose. A task like this is beyond arduous, but split up could end up being only a slight waste of time . Post the song you want to attempt this wit hand then have one person attempt to isolate each instrument as best as possible. Some instruments will be possible and may yield good results.
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Clint Swank
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 13:35:08
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Exact MIDI copy of anything you want. $300.
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dubdisciple
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 13:57:53
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I would like an exact midi copy of 4'33"
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Kev999
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 13:59:41
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If it's possible (which I doubt), it would be better to start with something higher-quality than an MP3 file, e.g. a WAV.
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dubdisciple
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 14:13:59
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^ true. I think best case scenario is that one is able to extract some instruments and use the midi data from those files to build midi files for the other instruments. Getting one clean instrument may give you enough info on key and chord progression to help fill in blanks.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 14:26:07
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Clint Swank Exact MIDI copy of anything you want. $300.
Allan Holdsworth - Mac Man Bill Bruford - Fainting in Coils Give those a listen and let me know about transcribing to midi, including guitar solos and all other instruments. I'd even give you a head start - I have recreated all instruments other than guitar in midi for the Fainting in Coils tune, in particular the lead lines Holdsworth plays. I'd love to see it, but don't think that's likely to be doable. Bob Bone
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Clint Swank
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 16:11:25
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Although I've actually done stuff like this in the past (for money! as well as my own edification), I was mostly kidding. Aside from actually playing the Holdsworth stuff, which I can't quite do, getting the pitchbends accurate in midi would be a huge chore. That said, I think one of those tunes would be more like a grand.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 16:28:41
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I know - I picked out a couple of pretty extremely challenging tunes. As I said, for that Fainting in Coils tune, all the rest of the instruments are already recreated with midi tracks - it's just the guitar lead parts for that tune - crazy playing on that one. But yeah, for the Mustang Sally kind of stuff, no sweat. I would sequence that kind of stuff up all day for $300 a tune. In the meantime, I guess I'll continue to do as I have done, painfully sequencing up what I can. Bob Bone
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Clint Swank
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Re: How can use sonar X1 to convert Audio/MP3 => GM 16 tracks file?
2013/11/19 16:45:31
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Mustang Sally, well, hardly. I once did Green Earrings on an Alesis MMT-8.
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