bronsoncox
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/22 16:32:44
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Saxon1066
Grem
I think what Saxon is talking about is not four separate takes, but four takes taken at the same time. Like three different mics, a 57 straight on, a 57 off axis, another mic a foot or two away or perhaps in the room, and a direct in, all recorded on different tracks at the same time recording the same performance. And do four or five takes like that.
Now try and comp that!!
Exactly, Grem! Usually two mics on a guitar cab plus a DI track--but sometimes also the room mic. So, I am recording three or four tracks simultaneously for one guitar part--and doing many takes of that guitar part. I'm an imperfect player, so up to 20 takes--I've gone to 75 takes in fits of madness--sometimes selecting one good note from a take when comping. The screen was comprehensible with layers, but with all those main track lanes and the small-sizing limit on take lanes, it's difficult in X3. Watsamatter? don't you guys seek utter perfection in your recordings? Bwah hah hah! Ah hah hah hah HAH!
What happens when you group those tracks together before making your comps with the take lanes? Or, why not just record the DI track, comp that and then re-amp it for the actual tracks. Helps cut down on phasing weirdness and the odd crossfade compromises.
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Mystic38
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/22 18:13:43
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Grem
I think what Saxon is talking about is not four separate takes, but four takes taken at the same time. Like three different mics, a 57 straight on, a 57 off axis, another mic a foot or two away or perhaps in the room, and a direct in, all recorded on different tracks at the same time recording the same performance. And do four or five takes like that.
Now try and comp that!!
clip group the four tracks, comp one track all four comp the same. end of story.
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Blades
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/22 20:51:43
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I have a question: I just got X3 so I haven't had a chance to even try any of the comping. I had X1 before this and never had X2.
I actually mostly liked the old layers for a lot of reasons. Aside from doing comp'd takes, I used to use the layers to do thick vocal tracks, which could be easily collapsed, all followed the same track automation, and all went through the same effects and whatnot without the need for passing off to a bus to deal with them.
For example, I might have a three part harmony, each part having 6 takes all playing together to get a nice thick stack. Then I'd be able to EQ all the stack of one part together - a high part might have different EQ and compression, for example, than a low part would have.
Is this sort of workflow still an option with the take lanes? Also, I'd record them sometimes by listening to the previous take, but sometimes just one after the other without listening to the previous, just to get somewhat more natural/looser takes without the influence of the previous takes.
I want to check out the new take lanes because I'm not a great guitar player/bass player, but I'd also like to know If my previous layers method is still an option.
Thoughts?
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SF_Green
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/22 21:16:09
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FastBikerBoy
Saxon1066
Grem
I think what Saxon is talking about is not four separate takes, but four takes taken at the same time. Like three different mics, a 57 straight on, a 57 off axis, another mic a foot or two away or perhaps in the room, and a direct in, all recorded on different tracks at the same time recording the same performance. And do four or five takes like that.
Now try and comp that!!
Exactly, Grem! Usually two mics on a guitar cab plus a DI track--but sometimes also the room mic. So, I am recording three or four tracks simultaneously for one guitar part--and doing many takes of that guitar part. I'm an imperfect player, so up to 20 takes--I've gone to 75 takes in fits of madness--sometimes selecting one good note from a take when comping. The screen was comprehensible with layers, but with all those main track lanes and the small-sizing limit on take lanes, it's difficult in X3. Watsamatter? don't you guys seek utter perfection in your recordings? Bwah hah hah! Ah hah hah hah HAH!
I record a bit like this especially acoustic guitar. I usually have a DI from the guitar and three mikes, one on the body, one on the neck and a room mic.
I then do as many takes as needed which is usually at least 4 or 5, often more. Either way I end up with several tracks and takes. If you use clip grouping you don't need to worry about anything more than one track while comping. Expose the lanes in on track and comp that, the rest will follow. I can't envisage wanting different takes on the same track. In that scenario I'd use different tracks in the first place rather than takes.
I do quite often use a second comp from the same set of takes and that's even easier now in X3. Do the first comp then flatten it then do the second and then flatten that. Move them out in separate tracks.
I'm sure I find layers in the earlier versions as insane as you do takes.YMMV of course.
Thanks for that FBB! I'll have to try that.
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Saxon1066
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/22 23:13:39
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Mystic38
clip group the four tracks, comp one track all four comp the same. end of story.
'Tis what I do. That's not my complaint.
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Saxon1066
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/22 23:18:30
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bronsoncox
Or, why not just record the DI track, comp that and then re-amp it for the actual tracks. Helps cut down on phasing weirdness and the odd crossfade compromises.
I have the Creation Audio Labs MW1 Studio Tool, a premier re-amping box, and a Radial as a backup. Re-amping just still doesn't quite recreate the direct mic'd sound--a bit of sustain is lost, for example. I use DI in case I radically change my mind about the sound and/or adding amp sim plugs.
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John T
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/23 00:59:32
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I'm with FBB on this. I never got layers at all, but I get take lanes.
Whoever works out the psychology of that is going to be the genius who designs take management for Sonar X6.
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stevec
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/23 12:37:57
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I've always understood and used both, but still prefer Lane over Layers... particularly with the recent updates in X3. Gimme a Hide Lane command and more control over Lane size and I believe I will feel Lane complete. 
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djwayne
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/24 14:42:38
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I don't use take lanes....can I have my thread back now ??
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icontakt
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/24 18:13:17
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djwayne
I don't use take lanes....can I have my thread back now ??
LOL! Looks like it's too late.
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declan
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/24 18:29:02
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Anderton
Saxon1066
Anderton
Saxon1066
I don't want a "main" track lane in addition to the takes. It takes up valuable screen space.
Well, this is a "to each his own"...I find it really handy to be able to see a unified, visual representation of the various clips I've selected. Then again, I seldom go above four takes when doing a part. If I don't get it right in four takes, I re-think the part and start over.
That's because you're a real musician.
So are you!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're making music with Sonar. Sounds like a musician to me.
Our strategies for recording takes might be different, but so what? And FWIW, there are plenty of times I don't get what I want in four takes...and I find it's a lot easier to impose limitations on myself, hence the limit. For some reason if I limit the number of takes, it's more likely I'll get what I want sooner.
Some of the musicians who've had the most impact weren't "good" by conventional standards. Is David Byrne of Talking Heads a great singer? Lou Reed? Bob Dylan? Was Syd Barrett or Joni Mitchell a virtuoso guitarist?
Emotional impact is what it's all about. Be yourself and you are automatically a "real" musician.
Great post and so true. Putting Syd & Joni in the same sentence is... immortal. Bravo!
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mettelus
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/24 19:34:47
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djwayne
I don't use take lanes....can I have my thread back now ??
LOL... this got hijacked out of the chute on you. But back to the OP, I am in agreement. The initial euphoria of X3 got replaced with people searching for very specific issues, then making huge threads of them as if they were the "be all, end all" of X3. In fact, many of these are very specific applications and have workarounds. X3 has been a lot of fun for me in many ways. Very stable, very streamlined, and can do end-to-end work pretty effectively.
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townstra
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Re: How can you not like Sonar X3 ??
2013/11/24 21:00:08
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I've been really enjoying X3. I don't use the take lanes because I rarely do more than a couple of takes on any instrument, so it's easier just to record over it if I'm not happy with the first one. Nothing's perfect, but I've really enjoyed all of the included features included with the Producer version.
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