Helpful ReplyHow come ebay blows?

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gswitz
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2014/08/21 18:07:10 (permalink)

How come ebay blows?

If you know what things are worth, there's no deals to be had!!
 
It's sooo frustrating.
 
I feel like the courts have made price fixing legal.

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#1
craigb
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/21 18:49:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2014/08/21 20:58:43
I can answer that since I've had to put a lot of things up on eBay lately.  It's because eBay and Pay Pal nail you with  fees and shipping is a joke.  
 
Take an amp that you sell on eBay for $900.  You then get an additional $100 to ship it.  Here's what happens:
 
eBay takes 10% of the gross (so $100)
Pay Pal takes 3.2% of the gross (so $32)
The shipper takes $108 (because, after proper double boxing and insurance, it ALWAYS seems to cost more than you get).
 
Total you got from the buyer:  $1,000
Total you don't get to keep: $240
 
Net proceeds: $760
 
So, if a "good deal" for that amp might have been $800, the seller still loses $40 when he sells at $900!  A careful observer will notice that eBay and Pay Pal ended up with $13.20 of the money intended to ship the item!  That's the part that pisses me off because I'm losing 13.2% on the money coming to me, but I'm losing 100% of the fees being taking out of the shipping.  The best way to offset this is to raise the shipping rate to compensate, but then people won't buy because of the shipping costs (and, with gas prices high, shipping has gone way up).
 
This is exactly why selling locally is the best bet if you can.  I can sell the above amp for $800 and someone will think "Cool!  $100 less than on eBay!" and yet I make $40 extra.  Of course, there's also the fact that buyers on eBay seem to think they should be able to purchase something worth $500 for $270, but that's a different issue.

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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slartabartfast
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/21 23:32:46 (permalink)
Ebay is a place to find things you can't get anywhere else. Some things are very reasonable--I got a CMOS backup battery for an old laptop for about $4.00 including shipping from Hong Kong. the cheapest I could find from any US supplier was $17.00 with about $4.00 shipping by US mail. I have only ever bought about a half dozen items there, always something hard to find for a reasonable price elsewhere. The buy-it-now and store prices for commonly available stuff are not usually an obvious bargain. 
 
But as an auction house it suffers from far too many buyers. At a small auction you might find one person who is willing to bid far more than something is worth because either he just has to have it or he just does not know what it is worth. On eBay you can expect hundreds of such over-bidders for any item that might be popular. I am always astonished at what people think their used computers are worth.
#3
ampfixer
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/22 01:23:27 (permalink)
I was ripped off in the past and have a new policy. I only buy from brick and mortar businesses that also have an eBay store. Although, I once bought a stereo from a guy in a Florida jail. Long story.
 
I find the business people that also sell on eBay, offer really accurate descriptions and good photos. I usually buy stuff after it's been around a while and get slow stock or end of model sales. The used stuff they deal in is also a cut above used stuff from individuals.
 
I never sell on eBay. Anyone interested in a wiring harness for a 1962 Strat? Seriously, I have one.

Regards, John 
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jamesg1213
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/22 02:13:12 (permalink)
I buy occasionally, but stopped selling for precisely the reasons Craig laid out.

 
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michaelhanson
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/22 10:44:35 (permalink)
I sold a bunch of used guitar pickups, a Tom Schultz Rockman and an old Boss 4 Track Recorder recently.  I used the money to buy a couple of pick ups for my Les Paul (Pearly Gates) and my Epi Dot (Gibson 490R).  Also, just got a loaded pick guard for a Strat mod that I am doing.  Shoot, Ampfixer, I would have jumped on that a couple of weeks ago.
 
Anyway, I discovered all of the hidden fees that you all speak of.  Got the Ebay bill a couple of weeks later.  It seems to be a lot better deal for the buyer who is looking for a hard to find item.  There was plus's an minus, for me with my experience.  I am not sure that I would have easily found a local buyer for the Rockman or the Boss 4 track at the prices I got for them.  I got a pretty good return for the Rockman, almost what I paid for it back in the 80's.  It's nice in my busy life to just be able to mail the sold item instead of having to take the time to meet with someone in person.  The only avenue I have found for local sales is Craigs List, which is a whoopin'  in itself.  The last item I sold there was an Epi LP.  Talk about 50 text messages of ridicules low balling.  At least one person who didn't show for the face to face meeting. 
 
Now I have the Gibson 490T that I took out of the Gibson LP and I am trying to decide what avenue I want to take with that.

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ampfixer
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/22 12:11:34 (permalink)
I have the wiring harness for the strat and I can't figure out how to sell it. eBay pricing is all over the map and there are no comparables for this thing. I don't do Craig's list for the reasons that Make Shift mentioned. I know guys that make a point of low balling offers. It's kind of sick because they work on a guy to get the price down and half the time they don't follow through with a purchase.
 
It was much better when there were lots of private music stores to sell to. They're all gone now and replaced by big box stores that don't want to deal in vintage gear.

Regards, John 
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#7
Rain
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/22 15:59:08 (permalink)
Which is why we need a buy, sell, trade sub-forum here. :)
 
 

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Beepster
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/22 16:31:22 (permalink)
Ebay died a slow painful death a loooong time ago. The fees and ridiculous policies implemented after the general population got computer saavy enough to use it but were still too stupid, unreasonable and demanding to appreciate it for what it is was the first blow (Ebay was supposed to be like an online flea market/garage sale but whiners expected it to be freaking WalMart).
 
The rise of Amazon was the second (which Ebay scrambled to emulate which they NEVER should have done... they should have let the annoying WalMart crowd flood over there and went back to being cool).
 
Then there were corporate shenanigans and government regs and banks all putting their usual smear on everything and trying to take their cuts.
 
So you end up with all the old school sellers getting run out of business because it was a losing prospect (who then got replaced by huge warehouse freaks or people WAY overcharging for stuff) and a bunch of dumbass buyers who'll give you a negative and a chargeback without even contacting you because they didn't get their item 2000 miles away the next day (even though the seller specifically stated it takes a week for shipping) or they get their item which was listed as USED!!! NOT WORKING!!! FOR PARTS!!!! and expected it to be new in the box.
 
Seriously people are simply too stupid to use ebay because they refuse to read terms or descriptions and corporations are too damned greedy to not squeeze every penny they can out of it even if it chokes the life and spirit out the venture (and besides... all those poor people selling stuff aren't supposed to get a cut!!! THEY'RE JUST PLEBES!!!).
 
Just like the rest of the internet Ebay was wild, untamed and actually really cool and useful. The powers that be could NEVER stand for such a thing. So now we have McEbay's instead of the online fleamarket/auctionhouse it was intended to be. Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or make them take even an iota of responsibility as a consumer or most importantly let some unworthy dreg make a little money for himself without paying homage to the corporate overlords.
 
Urg...
 
Sorry, ebay makes me angry. I'd still buy or sell something on it if I deemed it worthwhile but the "worthwhile" part seems to have completely disappeared from the equation.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/22 20:10:49 (permalink)
 
Doesn't eBay own PayPal? So they actually fleece you twice on most transactions
 
I run a (very small) eBay Seller account for a local charitable organisation which we use to sell items donated to us. As a registered charity, eBay refunds all our insertion and final value fees so we keep 100% of the price of anything we sell. PayPal on the other hand still take their cut on every sale when our customers purchase using them. Still, it's better than having to cough up the full fees to eBay.
 
We did have to register the eBay account with PayPal Giving Fund before we could get up and running, and they make you jump through so many bureaucratic hoops that I'd imagine it's almost impossible to blag a charity account if you're not a bona fide organisation.
 
In these circumstances, it's understandable that I have to be completely above board with every sale, and also account for every penny of every transaction.
 
However, I must admit that I've been less stringent with my personal account in the past, and for just the reasons Craig mentions. I'm guessing there must be an awful lot of this under-the-table trading going on, hence the honest dealers are forced to pay the exorbitant fees eBay level to make up for their 'losses'. I've only been led astray a couple of times - and only when there were 'more expensive' items being sold or purchased.
 
It's a pity, but I can't see the eBay/PayPal monopoly being broken any time soon. We even have free-to-buy/sell sites like Gumtree over here, but they don't get a fraction of the traffic eBay attracts.

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#10
2:43AM
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/22 20:55:52 (permalink)
I have been a member since the year 2000. Over the last 14 years, fees kept going up, and policies kept changing against the seller. The integration of PayPal was OK, but it spiraled a while after. The average sellers like you and I were replaced by overseas Chinese vendors and/or Power Sellers. I'd say the heyday was around 2004-2006'ish.
 
The fact that eBay now charges a percentage of the shipping price is absolutely ridiculous! The jerk sellers that charged an exorbitant shipping price to make up the difference of lost cash due to seller-fees are the main cause of this.  Overall, this was the nail in the coffin for me.  I occasionally buy, because you can still find obscure things, or parts for things, for reasonable prices. eBay still has value to me, but only as a place to buy things.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/23 06:48:52 (permalink)
2:43AM
The jerk sellers that charged an exorbitant shipping price to make up the difference of lost cash due to seller-fees are the main cause of this.  Overall, this was the nail in the coffin for me.



Some of these buggers aren't even subtle about it.
 
On the Volunteer Centre account, I am completely transparent about shipping costs - I show both the estimated postage amount and the carrier. We even stipulate that if the actual cost of shipping is less than estimated, we will refund the difference to the buyer - I made a selling template in Elements which I insert in the 'text' area of the listings, and I make this quite clear as you can see (I also embed my photos of the items in this part of the listing for extra impact). I've refunded excess postage a number of times, and the messages I've received after show how much people appreciate the gesture, even if it's just a few pence.
 
 
 
I also recycle old shoeboxes, various Amazon packages/boxes, and even jiffy bags so we don't have to charge the buyer for these items.
 
Anything that keeps the cost down must help to make items more attractive I guess.

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#12
kennywtelejazz
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/23 08:00:11 (permalink)
Yeah , besides the fact that Ebay sucks , every Pawnshop I've been to in the past few years now thinks that they are doing you a favor by trying to fetch ebay prices ..it is a big part of their price structure .
they have even told me this is what they are getting on ebay , and look you don't have to pay for shipping and you can try before you buy..
 
I look them dead in the eye and I ask them did you pay ebay prices for it when the guy pawned it ? they sure don't like when I tell them that  
 
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/23 08:46:48 (permalink)
ampfixer
I have the wiring harness for the strat and I can't figure out how to sell it. eBay pricing is all over the map and there are no comparables for this thing. I don't do Craig's list for the reasons that Make Shift mentioned. I know guys that make a point of low balling offers. It's kind of sick because they work on a guy to get the price down and half the time they don't follow through with a purchase.
 
It was much better when there were lots of private music stores to sell to. They're all gone now and replaced by big box stores that don't want to deal in vintage gear.




Being as you are in Ontario have you ever tried Paul's Boutique in Toronto? They are a teeny little shop but deal in used vintage stuff (mostly geared toward the hipster crowd but I've dealt with them and they're cool). They'd probably be interested in buying parts and stuff off you (they do repairs on older gear as well). Not sure how well they'd pay but they do consignment and considering what they charge for some of their stuff I'd imagine if they REALLY needed a part it would be worth it for them to pay well.
 
If you remember Songbird Music on Queen St I think it's one of the dudes from there. Here's their website...
 
http://www.paulsboutique.ca/
 
#14
craigb
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/26 21:45:26 (permalink)
 
* Update! *
 
Sorry, but the numbers I quoted above are no longer accurate.  I just sold something today and, evidently, Pay Pal felt they needed a larger portion of the take and their percentage is now 4.3% - a more than 34% increase!  Bastards... 
 
So, how does that affect my example?  Here ya go...
 
--------------------------------------------
Take an amp that you sell on eBay for $900.  You then get an additional $100 to ship it.  Here's what happens:
 
eBay takes 10% of the gross (so $100)
Pay Pal takes 4.3% of the gross (so $43)
The shipper takes $108 (because, after proper double boxing and insurance, it ALWAYS seems to cost more than you get).
 
Total you got from the buyer:  $1,000
Total you don't get to keep: $251
 
Net proceeds: $749
--------------------------------------------
 
Pretty soon it will be "Send what you want to sell to eBay and we'll keep whatever we can get for it." 

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Beagle
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/27 08:15:56 (permalink)
kennywtelejazz
Yeah , besides the fact that Ebay sucks , every Pawnshop I've been to in the past few years now thinks that they are doing you a favor by trying to fetch ebay prices ..it is a big part of their price structure .
they have even told me this is what they are getting on ebay , and look you don't have to pay for shipping and you can try before you buy..
 
I look them dead in the eye and I ask them did you pay ebay prices for it when the guy pawned it ? they sure don't like when I tell them that  
 
Kenny


they probably checked ebay prices and paid the guy about 1/2 of what ebay average price for that instrument was.
 
seriously.

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Beagle
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/27 08:19:34 (permalink)
I, like many of you, have realized that it's a huge scam on sellers now and for those of us who just want to sell some of our unused items to someone who can get good use from them, we're screwed because ebay and paypal are now geared toward making the most money from power sellers, thus screwing us little one-sies and two-sies with the same exorbitant pricing as they have for the power sellers.  and they double dip ebay and paypal (yes, ebay now owns paypal, tho that wasn't the way it started) and they charge fees on shipping.
 
it's a huge scam and I have not sold anything on ebay for over a year, and even then I tried to sell items on Craigslist first and only resorted to ebay when I couldn't sell locally.
 
it wouldn't surprise me at all if ebay started charging the buyer soon.
post edited by Beagle - 2014/08/27 08:23:44

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ampfixer
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/27 11:59:53 (permalink)
Everyone uses eBay to set their prices. Even on trade-ins. This really sucks because they want to use a global market to establish the price in a local market. I was trading in a guitar at a store and the guy ran to a computer to determine what it was worth. He didn't look at it or listen to it.
 
Sellers are catching on. One guy I know, puts up items with huge reserves and high prices. There is no intent to sell. He explained that after the auction ends he gets lots of private email offers and sells direct. eBay is his advertising. No matter what system you deal with, the big fish and the bottom feeders find a way to thrive.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#18
Garry Stubbs
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/27 18:30:10 (permalink)
Interesting thread. I know there is still money to be made because my youngest son, who is 26, only last month purchased his new house for cash on the income he has made from his eBay business, which he started only 3 years ago. He works for around 4 hours a day, seven days a week. So I know there is still room for the smart little guy... please don't ask me what he sells, because I promised him not to share his product formula. Suffice to say, if you are prepared to add real value to raw materials, and produce quality and personalise enough to get repeat customers, then it can be done.
 
What folk lose sight of, is that its not what you sell at, because the market mainly determines that, but what you buy at, or add value to, that gives the profit. eBay charges what it does because it CAN. No competitor has cracked the challenge (or the funding thereof) of giving them a run for their money to date. 
 
EDIT: Actually, I have just run through the thread again after my initial skim, and I may have missed the point, yes, for those of us that just want to offload surplus gear from time to time, then it is expensive. As I did say, it's only serious competition that will drive selling costs down, no one has quite cracked that yet...
post edited by The Kiosk Project - 2014/08/27 19:31:03


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soens
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/30 19:17:03 (permalink)
kennywtelejazz
...they have even told me this is what they are getting on ebay , and look you don't have to pay for shipping and you can try before you buy..
 
I look them dead in the eye and I ask them did you pay ebay prices for it when the guy pawned it ? they sure don't like when I tell them that  
 
Kenny



Then you ask... "Then why don't you just sell everything on ebay and close the doors to the public?!
 
99% of pawnshop items here are 99% junk with "new" prices. At least you can negotiate price to a degree.
 
I've bought and sold on ebay over the years. I've made some awesome deals and got ripped off $1200 once. I only recovered $800 of it and raised a big stink back when PayPal was new and had illegal policies catering to the sellers. After my ordeal they improved their policies greatly in fear of, or possibly because of, incurring huge lawsuits over them.  It is what it is.
#20
soens
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/30 19:27:53 (permalink)
ampfixer
Sellers are catching on. One guy I know, puts up items with huge reserves and high prices. There is no intent to sell. He explained that after the auction ends he gets lots of private email offers and sells direct. eBay is his advertising. No matter what system you deal with, the big fish and the bottom feeders find a way to thrive.



This is exactly what ebay is trying to avoid. It is against their policies and once he is found out he will loose his account. Not worth the risk.
 
Once ebay realized tons of businesses were making big money off them they reengineered everything for a bigger take of the action. The occasional seller is going to suffer more from using it.
 
What gets me is how many US sellers refuse to ship to Alaska and Hawaii. It costs a little more to ship from/to here but not that much.
#21
craigb
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/30 20:31:41 (permalink)
In related news, the U.S. has put Alaska up for sale on eBay...

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#22
soens
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/31 06:21:36 (permalink)
About time. Hope it goes cheeeep and the new owners deport us refugees to the mainland quick!
#23
kennywtelejazz
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Re: How come ebay blows? 2014/08/31 12:00:41 (permalink)
Beagle
kennywtelejazz
Yeah , besides the fact that Ebay sucks , every Pawnshop I've been to in the past few years now thinks that they are doing you a favor by trying to fetch ebay prices ..it is a big part of their price structure .
they have even told me this is what they are getting on ebay , and look you don't have to pay for shipping and you can try before you buy..
 
I look them dead in the eye and I ask them did you pay ebay prices for it when the guy pawned it ? they sure don't like when I tell them that  
 
Kenny


they probably checked ebay prices and paid the guy about 1/2 of what ebay average price for that instrument was.
 
seriously.




first off my apologies to the OP if I'm a little OT for going here
 
Beagle , that might happen if a person tried to sell used gear to a  Music store  , even then , I / 2 of the current market value price of a used piece of musical gear might seem a little high to some of the music stores considering the mark up in a music store isn't as high as most people think ..
if the gear is something they think they can move fast , then yeah , any sort of deal is possible ….
even then , most music stores pay in the ballpark of 1 /2 as the price for the current manufactures list price on new gear …
if they are a high volume shop they may pay a little less . 
when the music store  pays their bills on time , the companies they are buying gear from will offer them a variable percentage off the normal wholesale price 
 
the faster the bills get payed and the faster the money moves …the happier every one is ...
 
BTW …Music shops still have to pay the shipping on all the gear …and they have to run a shop ….
running a shop involves many expenses from rent , utilities , pay roll …lets just say the list is endless
 
Pawn shops on the other hand are a different business all together …
I can't comment on how they do things in your State …
I can comment on NY , Cali , OR, and WA ...I've bought gear in those States except OR …in OR I've shopped and not bought.
 
Pawn Shops are not in the buisness of buying and selling musical gear ..
people may think that because they see shows on TV like Pawn Stars or Hard Core Pawn …sure on those shows  they offer to buy things outright ..
I do know that most Pawn Shops in my area love to buy Gold, Jewelry  and Guns….
on those items they may offer to pay about 1 /2 the going price only because they can flip those items and guarantee a quick profit ..this is generaly not the case with musical gear  remember they also have to compete with music stores , the internet and private sales.
 
let me get to the meat of the subject 
 
Pawn Shops are in the business of lending people money and holding the things the people bring in to them as collateral …..
they make money on the interest that compounds as the loan takes longer and longer to pay 
what most people don't realize is that it is always a win win for the Pawn Shop , not the person who borrows the money from them 
I've seen this happen at least 10 times ….while I'm standing in a Pawn Shop 
I've seen  people  take a guitar to a Pawn Shop for a loan 
for example a Mexican Strat that they could probably sell for $250 ..$300 if they had a willing buyer ..
the person may ask the Pawn Shop to buy it outright and I've stood there and heard the clerk say no we don't buy guitars outright , but we can give you a loan …
the guy thinks OK I need $200 and the clerks behind the counter laughs ….and says to the guy  what do you think we are Pawn Stars 
if the guy needing a loan is lucky he might get $100 ….I've see guys take $60…for a Mexi Strat 
the guy asking for the loan will always think  he's gonna be able to pay the loan back …..
in reality , if that was truly the case ………….Pawn Shops wouldn't have walls and walls of Guitars 
 
to cut to the chase ….the guy keeps putting down on his loan , chances are he might only be paying off the interest and if he defaults and docent pay it off or just decides to just say  eff it …his guitar will hit the show room floor in a little over 90 days ...
i think in a lot of Pawn Shops  a loan can get extended …if the person paying off the loan stays current with the payments the pawn shops  actually like that …
REMEMBER ,  
Pawn Shops are in the business of lending people money and holding the things the people bring in to them as collateral …..
they make money on the interest that compounds as the loan takes longer and longer to pay 
 
Also, to this day I have never been in a Pawn Shop that would do a fair trade on a guitar that I wanted to trade towards a guitar they had …some won't even allow trades towards gear...
 
There was  a guitar that I wanted to buy from a Pawn Shop and I didn't have all the money to spend comfortably 
I brought in a really nice mid range acoustic with a hard shell case and inquired as to how much they would give me towards the trade …the clerk said $ 60 bucks  I opened the case and showed him my receipt for $ 375 that I had spent on this rig….
the clerk looked over the receipt for 30 seconds and then he said OK $ 75 bucks   
 
OH BTW , when that Mexi Strat does hit the selling floor ….the one the shop loaned $ 60 …on ..
the shop probably already made a profit on the loan …the interest rates add up ,even if the guy payed $60 dollars toward the loan before he gave up and defaulted ..he was only paying off the interest …and he might of only hit just a little of the principle 
 
Selling the guitar is just the icing on the cake ….read my lips ..the Shop has already make his money 
also , you can bet your last strip of bacon that the price for that guitar will be higher than the listings on C….List  , what a music store would sell it for …and it might be the same exact price they are asking on E Bay …not what they sell for ..what they are asking …. 
I've even seen used guitars and amps going for $50 to $ 100 bucks more than what they cost new in Pawn Shops  
all that aside …..
if it sits there long enough on the wall, or if the shop likes wheeling and dealing ….it will still be possible to get a decent deal ….
 
 
 
Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2014/08/31 13:38:12

                   
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