Helpful ReplyHow did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums?

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Toddskins
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2018/12/15 05:35:26 (permalink)

How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums?

How did the recording engineers make the drums sound like there's an air gun blowing in the drums?
You can hear it in the opening 10 seconds of Styx "Father OSA"
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9yvopaOZEQ

And I think the effect is used, but not as dramatic, on Shooting Star's "Last Chance" on the first drum fill response to the music buildup at 4:36 to 4:39
 
https://youtu.be/l5BqpvcWuyo?t=274

If I wanted to create that effect using Addictive Drums 2 (AD2), could it be done?
#1
Euthymia
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/15 07:52:12 (permalink)
The Styx one sounds like a stereo flange to me, if you're talking about the whooshy thing that's going on during the snare buzz roll.
 
I think if you poke around the presets in the Sonitus Modulator you'll find something like that.

-Erik
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Euthymia
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/15 08:46:23 (permalink)
I just threw the Sonitus Modulator on my drum bus using the "Classic Sweeping Flanger" preset, did a little Export and put it up on BandLab.
 
Is this what you mean?
 
https://www.bandlab.com/r...Uv4XEykM4Uyoy-9lhjlVMA

-Erik
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BRainbow
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/15 09:59:34 (permalink)
That sound seems like basically a flanger - mostly in the  hi frequencies.  But speaking of airgun (in the low frequencies) Addictive Drums has a sine pulse wave as one of its sound options for the "Flexi" slots.  Try mixing that in selectively with some of your kick and low tom notes for a blast of air out of your speakers.  Not too much.

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Toddskins
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/15 12:42:18 (permalink)
Euthymia
I just threw the Sonitus Modulator on my drum bus using the "Classic Sweeping Flanger" preset, did a little Export and put it up on BandLab.
 
Is this what you mean?
 
https://www.bandlab.com/r...Uv4XEykM4Uyoy-9lhjlVMA


That was nice of you, Erik, to go through all that for me.

I think I can hear some of the effect, but if you could record your sweeping flange on a snare drum roll that lasts several seconds, and also a fast roll of sweeping drums (i.e. up or down all the toms, no cymbals) I could make a better judgment.
 
In the Styx song, the effect is so dramatic, it seems like the drums are flying through the air.  I suppose perfect use of panning and volume control might have lent a hand in that as well?
 
But regardless, you think that's what the recording engineer did for the Styx recording back in the mid-70s?  Pretty innovative.
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Toddskins
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/15 12:43:50 (permalink)
BRainbow
That sound seems like basically a flanger - mostly in the  hi frequencies.  But speaking of airgun (in the low frequencies) Addictive Drums has a sine pulse wave as one of its sound options for the "Flexi" slots.  Try mixing that in selectively with some of your kick and low tom notes for a blast of air out of your speakers.  Not too much.


Thank you for that bit of information, BRainbow.  I own AD2, but have not yet learned how to use it.  I just cracked the Manual tonight and am going to tackle it, finally.  
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abacab
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/15 21:01:10 (permalink)
The free Melda MFlanger using the "Simple" preset does a nice job with drums.  Gets a spacial, whooshy effect, with some nice airy tails on cymbals.
 
https://www.meldaproduction.com/MFlanger

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Steev
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/15 21:07:24 (permalink)
Ah, yeah I know exactly how that was done! That's the inimitable signature sound of the EVENTIDE Digital Delay
It can also effectively be accomplished using the delay section on the Eventide UltraChannel plugin.

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#8
Euthymia
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/16 04:05:52 (permalink)
Here's a snare roll for ya:
 
https://www.bandlab.com/revisions/open?id=1x_YDEiZrEi_YDNxM3aKSg
 
At this point, I think we have a consensus, it's a stereo flange. The aforementioned MFlanger from the MeldaProduction Free Bundle (essential to have for many other reasons) would actually probably be my first choice, but Sonitus Modulator is something that we all already have.
 
UltraChannel would also get the job done, it's a fine plug-in, I own it myself, but you can save $250 if you try Modulator or MFlanger and one of them works.
 
Just call up the presets, fiddle with them, and you'll find what you want. MFlanger will even sync the sweep to the tempo of your song.
 
As for the tom roll, that might be a combination of things in addition to the flanger, including some good ol' panning. But start with a stereo flanger, and tweak it so that the stereo movement is in time to where you want the center to be.

-Erik
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#9
Toddskins
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/16 04:35:45 (permalink)
Thanks all for your responses.  And again, Erik, for taking the time to do the snare roll example for me.

Much appreciated!
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Kev999
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/16 06:03:02 (permalink)
The earliest known instance of flanged drums can be heard here at 1:04, 2:02 and 2:19:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ViwvgtvbA

The effect was achieved using two copies of a tape running at slightly varying speeds.

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Euthymia
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/16 12:10:35 (permalink)
Toddskins
Thanks all for your responses.  And again, Erik, for taking the time to do the snare roll example for me.

Much appreciated!

I'm happy to finally be able to answer an actual Cakewalk question on the forum. It's only taken me 9 months to feel confident enough! I don't pay enough attention to those Sonitus FX, I guess because I came to Cakewalk from another DAW and already had a quiver of favorite basic plug-ins mostly in the form of the Melda Free Bundle.
 
I also wanted to see if I could keep it all inside the Cakewalk/BL "ecosystem," using the Export Module and BandLab Assistant to upload it, and it cut out a lot of clicks, it's dead simple for "here, check this out" stuff like this.
 
Of course I want to hear what you come up with if you care to share it later.

-Erik
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#12
scook
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/16 12:44:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Steev 2018/12/18 14:49:29
The best tape flange effect I have ever heard/seen demonstrated in a DAW was in Craig Anderton's video SONAR X1 Advanced Workshop: The Next Level. I do not believe the video is available but Craig updated the process to use Aux tracks and included a description of it in his "The Second Big Book of SONAR Tips." I checked and Craig's "The Huge Book of Cakewalk By BandLab Tips" still contains the chapter. The pdf is on sale for $20 and contains a lot of useful tips like this one.
 
With permission of the author here is...

The Gourmet Flanger
 
I’m always looking for ways to get the “tape flanger” sound of “through-zero flanging” without tape.
The differentiating aspect of through-zero flanging is that when the delayed and straight signals are
out of phase and at the same delay time, they cancel to create a split-second of silence. Although the
Sonitus Modulator offers a Tape option that approximates this sound, you don’t have control over how
the Tape option works—with real flanging, tape motion was always somewhat variable; more often
than not, the tape would sort of stagger around the through-zero point. So can we get an even more
realistic tape flanging sound with SONAR? Of course we can!
 
The setup is a little complex, because we need to take the audio we want to flange and send it to two
buses, or the same Patch Point in two Aux Tracks (as in the screen shot below). Note that with Aux
Tracks, Input Echo needs to be enabled. Each Aux Track has a Sonitus Modulator effect, with one set
for a constant 0.1 ms delay (labelled as the “Reference” track, which is also set out of phase), while
the other “Flanger” track is set to sweep so it goes up to a lesser amount of delay than the zero-
crossing point (in this case, 0.01 ms). Therefore, the signal cancels once when it sweeps up through
the 0.1 ms delay point, and again when it sweeps back down through the 0.1 ms delay point. You want
the interval between these two times to be fairly short; however you can lengthen this by increasing
the Reference track’s delay parameter.
 

 
Set the Mix controls to 100% delayed signal for the maximum effect. The Flanger track’s Depth control
determines how low the flanger goes. 3-5 ms seems about right, but feel free to increase this for a
wider-range effect that gets more into the chorus/delay range. Also, try different LFO waveforms. My
favorites are the Triangle and Peak / Dip waveforms.
Turning off the Phase button on the Reference track produces a different timbre that’s also useful, but
the signals don’t cancel at the through-zero point, so they create a volume increase. In that case you
might want to lengthen the Flanger track’s Delay parameter to avoid the through-zero point. I prefer
the out-of-phase sound because it sounds more like “classic” flanging to me, but at least you have
options. You can also experiment with increasing the amount of feedback; just remember to keep the
levels identical.
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Steev
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/18 15:11:55 (permalink)
I LOVE the Sonitus FX bundle and found it to be one of the best box of tools added to Cakewalk of all times As is the TTS 1. Direct X based plugins may look a tad cheap and silly, but they can deliver real ear candy results.
 I've noticed a lot of people have discounted Sonitus as toys due to the not so exciting looking run of the mill Windows dialog box DX interfaces, but they are a perfect example of the old phrase "Don't judge a Book by it's Cover."
 Look under the hood and you'll find some real useful goodness to the likes of DBX compression and Neve EQ presets just to name a few, and CRAZY powerful arsenal of time based FX.

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chris.r
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/18 17:48:21 (permalink)
Guys, don't forget to crush your final result with a bitcrusher/filter cut for that ultimate biteness (especially in the hights)! The videos posted in the OP both were 240p :)
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Toddskins
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/18 22:10:52 (permalink)
chris.r
Guys, don't forget to crush your final result with a bitcrusher/filter cut for that ultimate biteness (especially in the hights)! The videos posted in the OP both were 240p :)




What is a bit crusher?  Is this post intended for me?  I don't understand this post at all.  :(
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chris.r
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/19 00:38:14 (permalink)
Toddskins
What is a bit crusher?  Is this post intended for me?  I don't understand this post at all.  :(

Hi Toddskins, bitcrusher is an effect used to downgrade the quality of audio. Sorry I've put more confusion into your topic, my post was somewhat half-humorous. The youtube clips you posted are very low quality of 240p which, I believe, additionally enhances the effect of flanger (or phaser) on the drums. Hence my suggestion to try out bitcrusher on top of it :)
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robert_e_bone
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/20 20:47:37 (permalink)
Great thread - THANKS Mr Cook, for posting the Anderton example, and thanks to all who helped flesh out this topic for the original poster - I LOVE the way folks here help each other. :)
 
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Toddskins
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Re: How did the recording engineer achieve this effect on the drums? 2018/12/21 12:58:19 (permalink)
robert_e_bone
Great thread - THANKS Mr Cook, for posting the Anderton example, and thanks to all who helped flesh out this topic for the original poster - I LOVE the way folks here help each other. :)
 
Bob Bone

 
No kidding, Bob.  And just to show you the difference in quality, I posted the same question on Gearslutz and after a few days there had been 225 views and not a single response.  And so I posted a 2nd time over there and let everyone know how great the Cakewalk forum is.  Here, I had several informative answers within hours of the post! 
 
Read it here, if interested:  https://www.gearslutz.com...make-effect-drums.html
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