How do I get vocals the same volume?

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chefmike8888
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2007/04/21 18:00:47 (permalink)

How do I get vocals the same volume?

Hi all.

I recorded a singer and we did 4 takes so we could pick and choose which parts we liked from each track. The problem is that the guy is not a top notch singer and the strength of his vocals vary, not only from track to track but also through out each track. So when I combined all the new parts, the volume and attack from clip to clip is not matching. I'm using Sonar 6 and want to know if there is a way to fix this problem. Does the normalize feature fix this (from what I've read, it dosent seem like it). Or do I have to do it in V-vocal clip by clip?

Thanks for any help,
Mike

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18 Replies Related Threads

    rumleymusic
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/04/21 18:26:09 (permalink)
    Sonar 6.2 has a meter to measure average levels (I think, I'm using 4 still). You should try to match them by using the volume control. Normalization only affects peak levels so that won't help you.
    #2
    bitflipper
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/04/21 19:41:00 (permalink)
    If the level differences are huge, use Process -> Audio -> Gain to make gross adjustments and get them in the ballpark. This won't be necessary if they're within, say, 10db of each other.

    To level out from clip to clip, use a volume envelope.

    For individual words or syllables, use V-Vocal. If you're planning to do pitch correction with V-Vocal you might as well go in and level things out a little at the same time. If a few peaks remain, like overly-loud/harsh "S"s or "T"s, try using the multiband compressor - just 5KHz and up -- with a fast attack.
    #3
    Jamz0r
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/04/21 20:02:32 (permalink)
    Next time you track his vocals, use a compressor on the way in. Carefully used, it'll keep the dynamics within a more usable range, without even being noticable.
    #4
    chefmike8888
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/04/21 22:30:54 (permalink)
    Thanks alot guys. Yeah, the differences are within 10db's. envelopes it is. and next time I'll try a little compression..."carefully"

    Thanks again
    Mike

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    #5
    jacktheexcynic
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/04/22 18:38:27 (permalink)
    i usually use clip gain envelopes to fix vocals (my own, since i only record myself ) when they are too dynamic. the reason i use clip gain envelopes is because they are pre-fader (pre-everything if i understand correctly) which means the adjustments you make are actually non-destructively fixing the clip itself. if you use a track output volume envelope, your changes are applied post-fader and if memory serves, post-send as well. so all the reverbs/choruses/whatever on the vocals will still be triggering off the original, unfixed sound. now if you route all your tracks to buses and don't have any sends on the tracks themselves (something else that i typically do) then it doesn't really matter if you do clip gain or track envelope or even bus send volume. just something to be aware of when using envelopes.


    - jack the ex-cynic
    #6
    Rev. Jem
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/04/22 21:18:50 (permalink)
    Yeah I agree with Jack: clip-gain env's all the way. Outboard compression is a choice but, recording at 24 bit (and not having any outboard gear !), I never bother.
    #7
    chefmike8888
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/04/22 22:53:09 (permalink)
    Thanks , I do have FX on the track so I think I'll go with the clip gain envelopes. good thing I checked back here before getting to work.

    Mike

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    #8
    JavaMan
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/04/26 10:10:29 (permalink)
    Gain Envelopes are your friend !!!!!!



    JavaMan
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    #9
    Jonny M
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/05/06 06:52:51 (permalink)
    I'd go for compression in the effects bin to correct it. I wouldn't use volume clips because that's only going to solve the actual 'volume' of the vocal. It will kill the natural velocity changes in a vocal if you just have the volume going up and down over parts that would be naturally more powerful.
    #10
    mixsit
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/05/09 23:22:31 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Jonny M

    I'd go for compression in the effects bin to correct it. I wouldn't use volume clips because that's only going to solve the actual 'volume' of the vocal. It will kill the natural velocity changes in a vocal if you just have the volume going up and down over parts that would be naturally more powerful.
    Naturally there's a million ways to skin this, but I'd be inclined to think that with gain envelopes you would tend to be moving in much longer blocks of time. To my mind that could actually preserve the smaller natural changes (vs compression).
    Once the bigger 'errors are out of the way, (not every nook and cranny -that'd be too much work anyway) the comp settings options actually open up I think -not being locked into doing slow rides', or pulling what's at the 'right level' down to catch the holes.

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    #11
    j boy
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/05/10 16:31:35 (permalink)
    You know, if you want to make your life a little easier...

    Next time - stick some duct tape down on the floor and mark the spot where the singer's standing, exactly. Each time they step up to the mic for another take, make them stand in exactly the same spot. It's a simple thing but you'd be surprised how much less fiddling you'll end up doing in the end...

    And don't let 'em bob and weave around while they sing!
    #12
    jacktheexcynic
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/05/10 18:21:46 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: mixsit
    ORIGINAL: Jonny M

    I'd go for compression in the effects bin to correct it. I wouldn't use volume clips because that's only going to solve the actual 'volume' of the vocal. It will kill the natural velocity changes in a vocal if you just have the volume going up and down over parts that would be naturally more powerful.
    Naturally there's a million ways to skin this, but I'd be inclined to think that with gain envelopes you would tend to be moving in much longer blocks of time. To my mind that could actually preserve the smaller natural changes (vs compression).
    Once the bigger 'errors are out of the way, (not every nook and cranny -that'd be too much work anyway) the comp settings options actually open up I think -not being locked into doing slow rides', or pulling what's at the 'right level' down to catch the holes.


    i agree - it's best to control unnatural dynamics (uneven performance) with clip envelopes and natural dynamics with compression. probably exceptions to the rule but that's why they are called exceptions. =)

    - jack the ex-cynic
    #13
    themidiroom
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/05/11 10:51:00 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: jacktheexcynic

    ORIGINAL: mixsit
    ORIGINAL: Jonny M

    I'd go for compression in the effects bin to correct it. I wouldn't use volume clips because that's only going to solve the actual 'volume' of the vocal. It will kill the natural velocity changes in a vocal if you just have the volume going up and down over parts that would be naturally more powerful.
    Naturally there's a million ways to skin this, but I'd be inclined to think that with gain envelopes you would tend to be moving in much longer blocks of time. To my mind that could actually preserve the smaller natural changes (vs compression).
    Once the bigger 'errors are out of the way, (not every nook and cranny -that'd be too much work anyway) the comp settings options actually open up I think -not being locked into doing slow rides', or pulling what's at the 'right level' down to catch the holes.


    i agree - it's best to control unnatural dynamics (uneven performance) with clip envelopes and natural dynamics with compression. probably exceptions to the rule but that's why they are called exceptions. =)

    Sounds good to me. Just call me mister volume envelope. I enable automation and use my Mackie control to ride the fader so to speak. Automation in Pro Tools might be a bit different than in Sonar (or at least the version I'm on)

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    jonespnice1
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/05/11 19:25:10 (permalink)
    Yes automation is the best solution. It may be time consuming but it will serve you well.
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    jacktheexcynic
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/05/11 21:18:54 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: themidiroom
    Sounds good to me. Just call me mister volume envelope. I enable automation and use my Mackie control to ride the fader so to speak. Automation in Pro Tools might be a bit different than in Sonar (or at least the version I'm on)


    i don't have a control surface but automation is one thing in sonar that could improve. for example, whenever i actually do a clip gain envelope i want four nodes for every adjustment so i'm not messing with the rest of the clip. at the very least i need two nodes so as not to skew the clip previous to the first node. but every time i have to manually add all the nodes... ugh.

    - jack the ex-cynic
    #16
    mixsit
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/05/11 22:16:52 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: jacktheexcynic
    i don't have a control surface but automation is one thing in sonar that could improve. for example, whenever i actually do a clip gain envelope i want four nodes for every adjustment so i'm not messing with the rest of the clip. at the very least i need two nodes so as not to skew the clip previous to the first node. but every time i have to manually add all the nodes... ugh.

    Yes, a 'drop a pair' click would be nice.

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    #17
    Franco_ontarien
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/06/08 10:15:36 (permalink)
    Maybe you should take a look at Melodyne Studio!
    http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=products_studio

    I'm using this software and I save a lot of time to fix volume or pitch problem.

    Regards!
    #18
    pjfarr
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    RE: How do I get vocals the same volume? 2007/06/13 13:17:44 (permalink)
    I've never had much of a knack for envelopes. Usually, once I've reached the end of the track and go back and listen from the beginning, the first series of envelopes will now sound "off" (too loud, too soft). So I adjust them accordingly, but then the envelopes later in the song are now suddenly off...and around 'n' around I go

    ~P.J.

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