Helpful ReplyHow do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separately

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magik570
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2014/12/12 13:03:32 (permalink)

How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separately

We decided to record some tracks to play on stage along with live vocals and guitars. They are cover songs (different language).. in order for me to do the beats properly, I decided to put the real song wav file in a track for reference.
My question is, how do I match the song with Sonar's metronome? I looked at the song in 'Loop Construction' view and it gave me avg of 115. But actual song differs time to time (not intentionally)..
So I changed the song's tempo (after settting the project at 115) to 115 (Audiosnap--> Clip follows project). Then I took advantage of 'Fit to Time' option to stretch audio.
But, my metronome still is not syncing.
Anything I could have differently? Is there a better way?
 
Thanks in Advance..

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#1
stickman393
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/12 13:28:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby magik570 2014/12/12 13:50:42
I dump the complete song as a wav into an audio track; then enable the metronome so I can hear the clicks. Then I adjust the BPM until the first 10 bars or so are in synch. Then I move the NOW time progressively further along, listening to the synch of the music to the click. Finally, I get to the end of the audio clip, and chances are I have a BPM of 115.75 or something like that. And it's "good enough".
 
This only works if you know that the audio wav uses a static BPM value. If it varies over time, then you have to use more complicated techniques to generate a tempo map.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/12 13:47:04 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby magik570 2014/12/12 13:50:40
Audiosnap has some kind of way to build a tempo map of a given track, and will insert tempo changes into the track to match any tempo changes in the actual song data.
 
I don't have time at the moment to look up that section of documentation for you, but if you haven't found it in a couple of hours, I will be back and can find that for you.
 
I have used this technique for finding all the tempos in a free-flowing guitar track by Steve Morse, from the Dixie Dregs, and it worked perfectly to match the project tempos to what had been recorded.
 
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magik570
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/12 14:00:52 (permalink)
Bob, 
I found this:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X2&language=3&help=AudioSnap.06.html
Will review soon..
If you were referring to any other documentation, please list at your convenience. 
 
Thanks again...
 

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robert_e_bone
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/12 16:21:41 (permalink)
Yup.  That's what I used.
 
Bob Bone
 
 

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mettelus
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/12 17:14:44 (permalink)
The method I have used for this is to first set the project tempo as close as possible, then shift the clip right to align an initial beat. Using shift-m you can set that initial beat and work through the clip every few bars or so (depending how much drift you have), and use shift-m to align further (turn off snap-to-grid so you can precisely mark beats). Each time you use shift-m you will modify the project's tempo map.

Oh, and after aligning that initial beat, right click the clip and "bounce to clip(s)."

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Kev999
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/12 17:29:50 (permalink)
mettelus
The method I have used for this is to first set the project tempo as close as possible, then shift the clip right to align an initial beat. Using shift-m you can set that initial beat and work through the clip every few bars or so (depending how much drift you have), and use shift-m to align further (turn off snap-to-grid so you can precisely mark beats). Each time you use shift-m you will modify the project's tempo map.

Oh, and after aligning that initial beat, right click the clip and "bounce to clip(s)."

 
That's exactly the method I use, except for the "Bounce to Clip(s)" part. What is the purpose of bouncing?

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robert_e_bone
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/12 19:09:26 (permalink)
Audio Snap will insert tempo changes for all tempo changes detected in the song, which may vary at points throughout the song.
 
You can then view the tempo map to see where all of those changes are.
 
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TomHelvey
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/12 19:33:01 (permalink)
If the reference song doesn't change tempo you can do it by adjusting the tempo until the kick and snare hits line up with the markers. If the song is all over the map, try this: http://forum.cakewalk.com...udioSnap-m3056749.aspx

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mettelus
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/12 22:12:04 (permalink)
Kev999
That's exactly the method I use, except for the "Bounce to Clip(s)" part. What is the purpose of bouncing?



I think this is specific to using AudioSnap, and cannot offhand remember the exact answer. FastBikerBoy responded to that in another thread and it seems to make the pool cleaner. For using Shift-M, IIRC, placing a tempo insert on that first beat is all that is needed. If aligning the first beat to a bar (without the tempo insert) and inserting a tempo change 4 bars down, it can nudge the placement of that initial beat otherwise.

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johnnyV
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/12 22:56:06 (permalink)
I have made 100's  of backing track I use live over the years ( 340?) 
In the past you rolled your own or paid for a tracvk
Now there is almost every top 40 song and most are free. People like me share our files.
SO first google for a MIDI file.
 
What your trying to do is not hard if the original material is a steady tempo.
It becomes more work if the song is a loose goose. 
Here's my method that will work with 80% of commercial top 40, modern country music. 
Plunk the audio track in DAW
Get as close as you can in tempo
Line up the downbeat of the first measure. 
Now mess with the fine tempo settings until the song still lines up with the grid at the end. 
If the song is a brick wall wave form that you cannot see the transients, make a midi transient track. 
Play your own click track along with the song.. in the end your going to re build a drum set anyways so use this and then quantize it. 
 
post edited by johnnyV - 2014/12/14 12:46:51

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Sanderxpander
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/13 03:25:26 (permalink)
If I understand the OP's purpose at all, creating a tempo map is useless. He wants to create a backing track, presumably without wavering tempo. He just wants to use the original as a reference and is trying to line it up beat for beat.

I think he has been trying the right thing but perhaps some AudioSnap markers need to be adjusted.
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bapu
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/13 12:01:42 (permalink)
Here is how I do it when attempting to do a cover that stays true to the structure and "tempo".
 
1. determine the average tempo, set it in SONAR
2. line up the first (in time) beat to a measure
3. turn off snap settings
4. cut up the beginning measures until you're out of time (typically 1 -3 measures but can be more depending on how tight the original recording was)
5. turn snap on (measure)
6. move the remaining song clip right at least one full measure
7. stretch/shrink the left clip to the nearest measure, bounce that to clip, lock it, this is no longer an addressable clip
8. slide the right clip (remainder of the song) left to align to the next measure after the locked clip
9. repeat steps 3 - 8 until the song is done
10. optionally  unlock all clips, select all and bounce to clip
 
It's time consuming but hey, it works. And now the "guide" in symmetrical in tempo thru the whole song*
 
 
*unless there are intentional speed ups and ****s in the song in which case you may need to make adjustments for that.
 
11. (it can always go to 11, huh?) Want to give the guide some energy? Do the process to the now full clip but this time in verse/chorus/solo/bridge/outro sections and speed up the choruses (or solos or bridge etc.) by 2-3bpm (if the song warrants it).
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jatoth
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Re: How do I match BPM to a WAV file in Sonar so that I can create the drum tracks separat 2014/12/13 14:15:55 (permalink)
It seems to me, that the OP wants to keep the variations of tempo in the original. At the same time he wants to have Sonar's metronome be in sync.
If that is the case, then he should use shift-M technique to mark the beginning of each measure.
(or as often as needed to keep metronome in sync)
You can now play along with the original and MIDI will be in sync with measures/beats.
I use this often to lay down backing tracks for covers, it works great.
 

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