How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution?

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tycho
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2011/01/09 22:57:44 (permalink)

How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution?

Under View > Display > Vertical Grid Lines you can set them to always show (in front or behind) which is great, but they are always set to whole measures. How do you set them to show at say, 1/4th or 1/16th?

Seems really weird that there is an option for this at all with just some arbitrary value hard coded into it.

The main reason I need this is that when you turn "Snap" to off, if hides the snap grid lines. This is annoying because I need those grid lines as a visual reference when I'm dragging around audio and trying to line things up to the grid. 

Basically, I need persistent grid lines that show whether or not "snap" is enabled, and I need to be able to set the timing of these lines. This seems like a super basic feature, am I missing something? Why is there such thing as a "vertical grid line" and why is it independent of the "snap" vertical grid lines? Also, why doesn't it follow the snap time settings?

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#1

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    chrisharbin
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/09 23:30:52 (permalink)
    try view/show vertical lines

    Well, after re reading and checking some things even that doesn't give me a snap to. Now I'm confused too.
    post edited by chrisharbin - 2011/01/09 23:35:06

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    #2
    tycho
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 01:18:59 (permalink)
    Yeah, I can show the lines fine, but can't adjust the resolution. They seem to be hard set to Whole Measure resolution. 

    If this is in fact how it was designed, it seems rather poorly thought out. In Reaper, for example, the grid works in a more logical way. You have three basic grid parameters: 1. Show/Hide Grid Lines 2. Snap to Grid on/off 3. Grid Line Spacing (sets resolution in musical time). Pretty straight forward and functional, Cake should look to this model for future implementations as the current setup seems to be some duct taped up solution piggy backed on to a legacy system that isn't really relevant to the current state of the software.

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    #3
    Middleman
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 01:52:20 (permalink)
    The time signature adjusts the lines. As you change the time signature the lines adjust.

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    chrisharbin
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 01:56:59 (permalink)
    tycho


    Yeah, I can show the lines fine, but can't adjust the resolution. They seem to be hard set to Whole Measure resolution. 



    Yeah, I'm not understanding then. I had to go to that preference and select that in order for the grid lines to be visible at the desired settings. Then, if you change to 1/4 or dotted 1/8 or whatever then the lines adjust properly.

    Got nothin' on the snap though as you say they should "snap" to 1/8, 1/16, etc but the notes remain free range so to speak. To be sure, there are issues with the PRV and snap.


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    #5
    tycho
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 02:02:28 (permalink)
    Middleman-
    thanks, but when I try to change the time sig it doesn't reflect in the vertical lines. How would I set the overall project time signature?

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    #6
    Middleman
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 02:06:22 (permalink)
    Next to the the transport section in the Control Bar is a blue screen with the time counter. In the lower right hand corner there is the time signature. Clik and open the dialog. Set it to 5/4 time and watch the grid lines adjust.
     
    Ok, my bad, I just re-read your question and you don't want measure aligned vertical lines, you want to move them to note values. I don't think that is possible.
    post edited by Middleman - 2011/01/10 02:07:49

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    tycho
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 02:14:53 (permalink)
    Ok got it... yeah, I basically just want some vertical lines as a visual guide that are always on (unless I choose to turn them off) which follows the specified grid spacing (1/16th etc.) 

    The lack of this is really annoying when trying to tighten up timing on audio takes. It's a catch 22: Let's say you have a drum track with a snare hit that was out of time. You want to move it so that the hit lines up with a point on the grid, which you can currently see as a vertical line because snap is on. But you have to turn snap off to move the audio to that point, at which time the vertical line disappears. 

    This could all be solved by having some sort of tick mark like "grid lines persist when snap is off".  I am surprised more people aren't complaining about this, isn't that a really standard functionality for a DAW? Or am I doing it wrong? I know AudioSnap is made for this, but from what I've seen of it, it doesn't really work as advertised and besides, I prefer doing it by hand so I have more fine grained control over each note's timing.


    post edited by tycho - 2011/01/10 02:24:07

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    #8
    Dave Modisette
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 08:09:44 (permalink)
    I agree with the OP and I can't imagine why this is such a problem to implement or isn't desirable to implement.  I've feature requested it.  It solves a basic need for editing.
    The developers gave us Aim assist which is nice but it isn't what we asked for.  It's like you ask for a butter knife to spread your butter on your bread and they hand you a spoon because is almost flat and if you work it just right, butter can be applied to your roll.

    There is a work around in Audio Snap but that feature is broken at the present time.  It allows you to add M:B:T to the Audio Snap pool and then when you display the pool lines you can use it like a visual grid.

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    #9
    patm300e
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 09:20:38 (permalink)
    Try putting a marker there?

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    #10
    tycho
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 14:30:47 (permalink)
    Mod Bod-
    exactly. I submitted a feature request as well, I guess this is not a priority feature for them. The crazy part is that I wouldn't see this as a "feature" really, more like a core functionality component. It would be like leaving out the ability to loop the transport and then talking about it like "wouldn't that be a nice feature"... At a certain point, functionality like this should just be a given.

    Patm300e-
    markers don't display a vertical line, only a small flag up at the top.

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    #11
    natewill18
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 16:05:08 (permalink)
    I'm also angry at this..I pride myself at hand quantizing audio and midi like a mad man lol ..and it's impossible without precise vertical guidelines smaller than a full measure!! I have another complaint about layers but I'll save that for another thread

    Sky High Ent. / Trackboyz
    #12
    tycho
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 22:15:00 (permalink)
    natewill18-
    my workaround has been to place the cursor where you want to move the audio to with snap on, then disable snap and drag the audio using the cursor line as a guide. only works for one line at a time, but it's better than nothing.

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    #13
    F@ker
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 22:24:30 (permalink)
    patm300e


    Try putting a marker there?


    Yep, set up markers to your desired resolution and drag away.
    #14
    tycho
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/01/10 23:13:18 (permalink)
    F@ker-
    not sure if I'm missing something, but like I said above: Creating a marker only adds a flag at the top in the time ruler. It does not add a vertical line over the track view, which is what this thread was about. 

    But if there is a way to make markers behave this way I would love to know. But it's still a very painstaking and messy workaround for this issue.

    thanks

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    AcidIceAdam
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/04/25 18:39:15 (permalink)
    Wow I thought I was missing something, but apparently I'm not. No offense to people offering weak workarounds, but for crying out loud I have this functionality in my VIDEO EDITING SOFTWARE, why the hell are vertical grid lines spaced on notes not in AUDIO editing software?! This is ridiculous.

    I, like a few others have stated, am trying to line up some audio by transients. Using a whole measure to eyeball an entire 10 minute audio clip is absolutely silly. I'm trying my best not to cuss here, but really this is pissing me off. There's no good reason to NOT have vertical grid lines with resolution defined by a selected note value (i.e resolution grid lines of half note, or quarter note, etc., just like in the piano roll view.)

    I'm frustrated as hell by the absence of this basic functionality, among a large number of other things with this software. It just boggles my mind that this isn't in the product.
    #16
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2011/04/25 18:53:42 (permalink)
    Middleman

    I don't think that is possible.


    Works great here!!!!


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    #17
    Lanceindastudio
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2016/06/22 00:18:12 (permalink)
    Hmmmm... changing the time signature to 16/16 in the transport view did the trick. It made grid lines on 16th notes. I like!~
     
    Ok it is stopping that resolution fro grid lines at measure 17.
     
    WE should just be able to change the grid line resolution without changing time signature. I will continue to research.
     
     
    post edited by Lanceindastudio - 2016/06/22 00:43:24

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    Lanceindastudio
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2016/06/22 00:33:48 (permalink)
    Ok so another method in SONAR PLATINUM: I have been experimenting with this as I like the grid to follow snap settings so I can easily line up clip placements. Smart Grid seems to be doing the trick for the most part.

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    Lanceindastudio
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    Re:How do you change Vertical Grid Lines resolution? 2016/06/22 00:44:47 (permalink)
    Hmmm.... I still want the grid lines to be able to follow my snap settings that I select, not dependent on zoom level. That is a better workflow for me... well maybe zoom technique will take over. The bakers are slick. I will try to implement zoom to change grid lines and snap grid via Smart Grid being on and it just might change my life! lol
     
    Cheers

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