guinness28
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How do you make virtual instruments sound ok ?
I have some questions about using virtual instruments in Sonar. I'm using EWQLSO Gold and Complete Composer Collection in general, using Sonar Producer 8.5. Maybe you'll find my question very strange, but ... How do you manage to make those virtual instrument sound well ? When I compose, I have my template, and I edit a lot of things, to adjust the levels. For example, if I want the clarinets to be louder, I use the piano roll and draw some CC7 events (CC1 when I use Garritan ...). And then all my piece is written like that. At the end, I make a final WAV file and that's all. But I realize that I must be missing something !!!!! When I listen to your demos, they sounds much more realistics than mine ! Could someone post kind of a tutorial to help me understand all the process ? Sometimes I thinks that my compositions sound quite "muddy", very confuse, maybe the use of effects and mixing could help me. Thanks very much for those who can help me. Hope my english is ok (I'm french) Alex
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Matt
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Re:How do you make virtual instruments sound ok ?
2012/11/04 22:05:46
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I think you will get a lot of good responses to this, maybe. Though maybe post it in the X2 forum or even a non-SONAR forum since it is more of a universal question and not specific to 8.5. There are a ton of things I do, I could probably write a book.... if I had to pick one thing I would say write to the sample, not to the instrument it's pretending to be. That is to say, if you're working with a violin ensemble, don't write for a real violin ensemble and then try to make the sample emulate it. Instead, imagine that the violin ensemble SAMPLE is it's own instrument, like no other instrument out there, and write so that the SAMPLE sounds good. The patch/sample has it's own characteristics and certain things that it does well... utilize those and if it's not working for what you want then maybe it's not the right instrument, try a different patch/sample. In my experience, every sample has a certain way to be played where it sounds the best... so play it that way and don't try to force it into something else. Not sure if that makes sense but it's a quick answer...
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:How do you make virtual instruments sound ok ?
2012/11/05 03:48:14
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Interesting. I'm using EWQLSO Platinum Plus and to be honest, i feel that these require little to no mixing whatsoever, other than controlling fader level to achieve a realistic orchestra simulation. How are you building up your arrangements?
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guinness28
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Re:How do you make virtual instruments sound ok ?
2012/11/05 04:18:54
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Here is an example of composition using EWQLSO and Garritan. This is the 1st mvt of my new Concerto for Euphonium and Concert band. Instruments used : Euphonium solo (Garritan) Picc (EW) 2 Flûtes (EW) 1 Ob (EW) 1 EH (EW) 1 Bsn (EW) 1 Eb Cl (Gar) 1st cl players (Gar) 2nd cl players (Gar) 3rd cl players (Gar) Eb Alto Cl (Gar) Bass clar (EW) 1st Alto Sax (Gar) 2nd Alto Sax (Gar) Tenor Sax (Gar) Bari Sax (Gar) 1st Trp (EW) 2nd & 3rd Trp (EW) 1st and 3rd Fr.Hn (EW) 2nd and 4th Fr.Hn (EW) 1st & 2nd Trb (EW) Bass Trb (EW) Euphonium section (Gar) Bass Tuba (EW) Dbl bass (EW) Harp (EW) All perc (EW) What do you think of the sound ? What would you change in the mix to make it sound better ? Thanks Alex (from France) http://www.alexandrecarli...erto-mvt1-finalmix.mp3
post edited by guinness28 - 2012/11/05 04:21:22
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daveny5
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Re:How do you make virtual instruments sound ok ?
2012/11/05 08:40:43
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Well, its more than just entering notes on a staff or piano view. Each instrument has to be "played" in the manner in which a real musician would play the instrument. Entering the notes is the easy part, getting the articulation and expression is the hard part. It can be done, but it takes a lot of effort. Entering the parts on a MIDI keyboard where you have pitchbend and modulation wheels and possibly some footpedals can be very helpful. The Piano Roll view makes it easy to enter controller information also. Then you've got recording, mixing, and mastering techniques to deal with.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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bitflipper
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Re:How do you make virtual instruments sound ok ?
2012/11/05 11:35:10
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Conventional mixing isn't the main thing with classical music. It's more about musical arrangements and articulations than the mixing techniques usually discussed here. As mixers, our job is really about letting the instruments speak for themselves. Long before digital audio or even electronic audio, composers and conductors were the mix engineers. Panning and levels were set by where each instrument was physically located on the stage, with the conductor serving the role that automation plays in modern productions. In particular, Beethoven probably contributed the most in this regard, and his stage setup has not changed much since. That's why most orchestral libraries follow the classical arrangement of instruments in the panorama, making them very easy to mix. When there was no "sweetening" - no effects, no post-production automation - it was up to the players and the conductor to add interest and dynamics. When composing electronic music in a classical vein, we usually follow the same philosophy, relying on different articulations to keep it interesting. I am not an EWQLSO user, but every sample library offers multiple articulations and some way to switch between them, usually using keyswitches, keys that don't play a note but rather enable a different sample set. This allows a violin, for example, to quickly switch between legato and staccato. This may be the added touch of realism you're looking for.
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guinness28
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Re:How do you make virtual instruments sound ok ?
2012/11/05 11:43:34
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Thanks for the replies. I must say that I already use keyswitches, but I just understood recently that I wasn't using correctly all the CC ... I thought about CC7 for volume, but forgot to use CC11 which can garanty the sound evolution during the volume increase. For example, if you blow in a brass, the louder you blow, the more "brassy" it sounds, and CC11 is there for it. I'll give a try and hopefully my demos will sound better. Thanks BTW : what libraries do you use ?
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Cactus Music
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Re:How do you make virtual instruments sound ok ?
2012/11/05 12:31:13
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I agree with both Daves and maybe what is wrong is you are manually entering data. Do you have the skill to acctually "play" the notes on a keyboard? I think that would bring out the dynamics and articulation needed. I could never get anything to sound right to me if all I did was draw it on a screen, I have to play it.
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