Helpful ReplyHow do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor?

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Feelharmonic
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2011/04/09 04:51:05 (permalink)

How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor?

Hi
I downloaded a general midi file from internet and opened it up using Sonar.
I was able to produce the sounds using the TTS-1.
The midi file was composed so that each track contains several instruments change (such as from piano to guitar to trumpet in a single track).
 
What I'd like to do is to change the original instrument set to different instruments.
But no matter how I change the original sound sets to a different instrument within the TTS-1 window, the Sonar would switch all the instrument change back to the original instrument including the volume, reverb, chorus, and the portamento change when I hit the play botton.
 
I'd like to remove all the instrument change and the rest of the midi information pertaining to each instrument and seperate the each instrument into an independent track.
 
What's the best way to do the task?
 
Thanks
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2011/04/09 05:06:12 (permalink)
    Use the event viewer. You'll be able to see all the patch/bank changes there and adjust/remove as necessary.

    Karl
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    #2
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2011/04/09 05:07:16 (permalink)
    Forgot to say for splitting out the instruments into different tracks use find/replace (the old interpolate feature)

    Karl
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    larrymcg
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2011/04/09 16:26:26 (permalink)
    Just to clarify, you need to make your changes to the midi track that feeds to TTS-1.
    The midi track has an initial instrument selection that is visible in the track controls.  Other instrument changes would be visible in the event list for the midi track.

    Essentially, TTS-1 is just responding to the info coming from the midi track so that's where you have to make things the way you want them.

    --Larry

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    Feelharmonic
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2011/04/10 05:04:05 (permalink)
    Thank you all folks.
     
    I was able to manually seperate the midi sequences into independent tracks.
    However, I got into a problem when I tried to imprint the desired instrument on each track.
     
    I did check the even viewer but all I saw was tiny dots and I didn't know how to manipulate the instrument information from them.
     
    Anyway, I opened up the left pane control strip where there is a black square "FX" box and right below there are three rows of bottons to set the MIDI channels, bank presets and the patches. This is how I set up the desired instrumets on each track.
    But for some reason, the instrument information was all lost upon playing the tracks and reverted to some other instruments. I even went to the TTS-1 control panel and clicked the instrument names right next to the volume sliders to pick the desired instrument.
     
    Unfortunately, that didn't help either. What must be done so that the desired instrument is set permanently on each track?
     
    Thank you very much.
    #5
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2011/04/10 11:52:26 (permalink)
    I still think you must have a patch change in the track data somewhere.

    If setting the instrument patch & bank in the track header isn't sticking try this.

    1. Open the "Event List" view (Alt+8)
    2. Click where you'd like the bank/patch change to go and then click the + sign at the top of the view. This will insert a new event. The very start of the project is a good place.
    3. Double click in the "Kind" column of the new event and select "patch Change"
    4. Double click in the column after "Data" which may be displaying ---
    5. Now you can set the bank (if needed) and the patch. Note that that will apply to whatever synth is on that channel

    If you are still getting instrument changes after doing that you must have some more patch changes some where on that track. You can use the "View" menu in the event list to filter which events are shown. Hide them all except "Patch Change" and that should make life easier.

    Hope that helps.



    Karl
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    larrymcg
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2011/04/10 13:03:22 (permalink)
    Feelharmonic,  I would add one more piece of info to what FastBikerBoy said.  That is, select the midi track of interest before opening the event viewer.  I don't think you should be seeing nothing but little dots.  Makes me think you were not opening the event viewer and certainly not the event viewer for the desired midi track.
    --Larry
    PS:  The only time I see lots of little dots is in the track view with a midi track where the midi info does not start at the beginning of the track.  In that case little dots are displayed up to the point where the midi data is displayed.

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    Feelharmonic
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2011/04/12 04:56:28 (permalink)
    Thank you FastBikerBoy and larrymcg.
    I was able to find the 'Event List' and edited some of the nasty program changes (orange colored info) that were unnecessary.

    At first I was confused with the 'CC:0(Chan4)' stripe on the bottom of the piano roll screen. I was accustomed to an old school sequencer program like Opcode which I haven't used over the decades.

    However, I still haven't tackled how to eliminate initial 'volume , reverb/chorus' change that won't show on the 'Event List' window. Some of the instruments would jumped to certain levels of volume, reverb, chorus and all I see is the 'wheels' and 'hold' info but none related to the volume. Is there other editing pane that I should've looked at?


    Regards,
    #8
    bvideo
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2011/04/12 08:01:25 (permalink)
    The initial settings for volume, pan, rev/chr, bank/pgm are in the midi track header; alternatively in the midi section of the track inspector. Most of those can be "reset" to default by double clicking on them.
    #9
    tomnk
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2016/01/06 05:00:15 (permalink)
    I have encountered this problem as well. I have checked the eventlist and inserted the patch change, but it completely ignores the patch and switches to one that I have not set. I have set the defaults. This appears to be a bug with Sonar Platinum. I did not experience this with Sonar X2 or X3, 
     
    I think Sonar Platinum is setting a Patch Change that does not appear in the eventlist
    #10
    BobF
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2016/01/06 11:14:09 (permalink)
    This behavior is explained here:
    http://www.cakewalk.com/D...help=MIDI_Files.1.html

    Bob  --
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    #11
    tomnk
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2016/01/07 03:41:30 (permalink)
    BobF
    This behavior is explained here:
    http://www.cakewalk.com/D...help=MIDI_Files.1.html




    Thanks BobF, 
     
    Was hoping for a quick and easy fix, but I guess not. I followed the article and converted Midi controllers to envelopes. The track view envelope is not clear what I need to do to strip off undesired patch changes or insert the desired instrument. I can insert points on the envelope but dont see the choices to select the specific instrument.
     
    The eventlist does show some new items in red of the kind "Shape" followed by the instrument I want to be played, but still the playback chooses a different instrument.
     
    Am sure am missing something but just cant put a finger on it.
     
    Any further clues or assistance would be appreciated
     
    Thanks again
    #12
    azslow3
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2016/01/07 05:06:43 (permalink)
    tomnk
    I think Sonar Platinum is setting a Patch Change that does not appear in the eventlist

    I have not notices something inconsistent with PC so far. There are 2 PC sources:
    1) MIDI track settings, visible in the track inspector. If you specify bank/patch there, it is sent when you play the track from the beginning (that also means changing settings there have no effect till you play the track from the beginning). Not in event list.
    2) PC changes in the track itself. They all appear in the event list.
     
    Also 2 notes:
    a) if you insert PC from the menu at measure 1, the setting is change for the track and not inserted into the the event list
    b) you need some notes on the track to see the effect (if the track is empty, Track settings PC is not sent).
     
    You can install TenCrazy TrackDiag MFX to see what is sent to VSTi in "real time".

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    tomnk
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2016/01/07 06:43:02 (permalink)
    Thanks azslow3
     
    azslow3
    There are 2 PC sources:
    1) MIDI track settings, visible in the track inspector. If you specify bank/patch there, it is sent when you play the track from the beginning (that also means changing settings there have no effect till you play the track from the beginning). Not in event list.

    In my case this is the desired outcome, to set the instrument once at the track level
     
    azslow3
    2) PC changes in the track itself. They all appear in the event list.

    any PC within the track is undesirable, am looking for a way to remove any and all PC in the track
     
    azslow3 
    Also 2 notes:
    a) if you insert PC from the menu at measure 1, the setting is change for the track and not inserted into the the event list
     

    noted, will bear this in mind, thanks
    #14
    williamcopper
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2016/01/07 09:29:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tomnk 2016/01/09 02:25:34
    Another possibility is that two sonar tracks are BOTH sending patch change events to the same synth? 
     
    I would not suggest going the 'convert to envelope' route before you figure out what is going on, btw. 
    #15
    williamcopper
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2016/01/07 09:38:35 (permalink)
    As to how to delete all patch changes in the track, again go to Event List, under View deselect all else except Patch Change (practically speaking, just deselect notes and controllers -- unless you also use pitch wheel or aftertouch). 
     
    Once you've got only Patch Changes visible you'll find another darn inconsistency -- you can't select across mulitple pages-downs, it doesn't work like any normal program --- fix this CW!!! -- but somehow select them all and then press the DELETE key. 
     
    #16
    brundlefly
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2016/01/07 15:25:20 (permalink)
    With clips(s) selected: Edit > Select > By Filter, click None, click Patch, OK, Delete.

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    tomnk
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2016/01/09 02:17:03 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    With clips(s) selected: Edit > Select > By Filter, click None, click Patch, OK, Delete.




    As I said earlier, there are no other program changes in the event list. I have gone through each track individually as well as as selected multiple (all) tracks.
     
    I do however agree something else is triggering a program change. Will investigate further over this weekend
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    tomnk
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    Re:How do you view and remove instrument change from the MIDI editor? 2016/01/09 02:17:03 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    With clips(s) selected: Edit > Select > By Filter, click None, click Patch, OK, Delete.




    As I said earlier, there are no other program changes in the event list. I have gone through each track individually as well as as selected multiple (all) tracks.
     
    I do however agree something else is triggering a program change. Will investigate further over this weekend
    #19
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