I may be wrong but check your Saxe(s) in DimLE GPO; I've got about 10 Sax choices in DimPro, half of which are extremely decent;

I'm guessing DimLE/GPO has only a couple GBytes of 'wave-synths'.

Also, check CW website samples of DimPro (GPO) Sax, etc.

The Saxes are what made me switch, Mark.

Why is GPO in DimPro better than GPO in DimLE? GPO is GPO, is it not?

Unfortunately, DimLE-GPO appears to be only a sample of GPO. I think it has about 1/2 of GPO; albeit DimPro Orchestras are more G-Byte intensive than GPO.

AKA: I use nothing from DimLE, except 'Xmas Bells' if I recall (which may be under Bells)

Note: DimPro has Vista issues and may still have 32-bit limitations; but CW seems to imply (in Sonar-7 ads) that DimPro upgrades are Vista do-able.

Once you play a DimPro "Les Paul" guitar or "Grand Piano" (which neither GPO nor DimLE seems to me to have) ... methinks you'll be a believer.

Philip

Its the 30GBytes worth of wave nuances in DimPro Orchestra vs a fraction of that in DimLE and GPO Orchestras.

IMHO, the relatively few (10-20) DimPro Guitars and Pianos are so (sur-)realistic that I'm blown away. I'd never buy a real guitar or piano after this; and, I have hundreds of cheezy ROMpler pianos and guitars I eschew henceforth.

I haven't checked out the version of GPO in DimLE yet so I'm not sure how much of the original Kontakt programming is carried over. If it's like the Kontakt programming, then just playing through the sounds may be disappointing. The power of GPO is in the controllers. I'm not sure if DimLE has Flex Envelopes which are used heavily in the GPO Kontakt programming. The flex envelopes shape the attack of the sounds and will change from a slow attack at low velocities to fast and heavier attacks at higher velocities. The mod wheel in the Kontakt version controls both volume and timbre. The combination of these controllers give GPO great flexibility in writing without having to stop and change articulations for many of the sounds.

I use VSL, EWQLSO, Project SAM, Kirk Hunter and other libraries but still find myself coming back to GPO for woodwinds, strings and the french horns (plus some of the other brass mutes which the other libraries seem to miss). I also use the piano quite a bit in the full GPO as I like it's smooth virtual velocity layers.

Jim

And in what department do you work at Cakewalk?
Just kidding. Thanks for the information and opinion. Another question: Does the GPO you speak of come with DimPro, or is that a separate expansion pack you have to purchase.

the strings that come with dim pro are better than much of garritan pocket in my opinion.
and some of the expansion pack stuff, woodwinds oboes are good too. i dont know how le sounds but to my mind dim pro is way better than the tts1!
there is no comparison.

Congrats Tls,

I know S7 synths supposedly 'rock and all' with funky Rapture, funky DropZone, and funky Z3ta ... 3 more cheezy synths that I'm sure I'll trash and forget by year-end. The real problem with cheezy midi's is they don't emulate guitar or piano enough to be leads, nor stringed instruments.

How can I expect to compose a lasting song with GM quality instruments and weird synths.

Man is designed to enjoy stringed instruments, horns, and vocals. DimPro gets 2/3 correct

DimPro Strings, Guitar, and Piano patches will remain in my songs as leads as precious few leads.

Now, if only my vocals could be redeemed, thus!

ORIGINAL: Philip
How can I expect to compose a lasting song with GM quality instruments and weird synths.

On one hand I agree with you. A few weeks ago I was poking around in the instrument samples on the Cakewalk site, since I was planning on buying Dimension at some point. Then I listened to the Rapture stuff and was kind of captivated by some of the sounds there. They reminded me of Pink Floyd and things like that, which made up quite a bit of the music of my youth. I actually ended up buying Rapture first, and have had fun playing with it. It's also nice for deconstructing some of those old sounds and updating them. But I have a lot of playing ahead of me before I can declare any kind of victory. Most of my songs are more along the "realistic" lines, but I think there's some room for the off-the-wall stuff, too.

My problem now is that I've been running Home Studio for a long time, and just upgraded to Sonar 6 in July (just missed the August cutoff - bummer). So I'm still getting used to those new toys. Then I went out and bought Rapture, and now am upgrading to Sonar 7 and Dim Pro at the same time. I'm going to be so busy learning and playing to create any music for a long time. (Oh yeah, and trying to squeeze home and work lives, too.) But it's tremendous fun, even if I'm only creating one- or two-minute snippets at a time and moving on to some other cool toy.

ORIGINAL: Philip
Man is designed to enjoy stringed instruments, horns, and vocals. DimPro gets 2/3 correct

That's good to hear, and I'm really looking forward to playing around with it. I've been limping along for years with mainly the sounds of my Yamaha S03. Some of them are actually half-decent, but most won't ever be mistaken for the real instruments. Sound fonts have been helpful in bridging the gap in a limited way, but the things that I'm seeing in Dimension really have me worked up.

ORIGINAL: Philip
Now, if only my vocals could be redeemed, thus!

You and me both, brother, you and me both. I keep trying to convince my wife to record some stuff, because she has a nice voice. But she hates to hear herself on recordings, so I'm counting on future generations of things like V-Vocal and the virtual singers to redeem me.

Wow! I guess I would have to say, from all of the posts, that maybe, perhaps, the Garritan Pocket Orchestra may not be all that it's cracked up to be. Consequently, I wonder what would be the most inexpensive alternative. Garritan PERSONAL Orchestra or maybe some other software developer. I was just hoping to use it as a TTS-1 substiture, only with higher realism and quality.

ORIGINAL: Philip
... is all you need to trash TTS-1 forever

The nice thing about the TTS-1 is that you only need on instance of it to play several instruments (up to 16). Dim LE only let's you play one instrument, so if you want an orchestra you will have to load Dim LE for each and every instrument. I don't like that... Is this the same with Dim Pro...?

Garritan Pocket Orchestra is an orchestral sample library with 85 different articulations of string, woodwind, brass and percussion instruments and they are programmed to respond expressively to data from a midi keyboard. The sounds can be mixed, panned, and reverb added to simulate different sized ensembles performing in different acoustic environments.

I think Cakewalk TTS has a lot of good capabilities. It has 128 sampled 16 bit preset instruments, plus there are about 30 synthesis parameters that can be used to create new sounds with the underlying samples, and these parameters can also be recorded in real time using midi continuous controller data. Plus 10 different drum kits.

Both these instruments have some really great capabilities that can be uncovered if you're willing to spend some time working with them, but they can't always match some of the sounds from a 24-32 bit sampler like dimension pro that comes with a huge library of ready made multisampled sounds.

Hi Danny-

GPO opts for realism by design. If you expect to get a great sound by just pressing a key on your controller, then you'll be disappointed. Proper use of the Mod wheel to mimic the actual friction and tension of the bow moving across the strings is crucial.

That's very interesting! I have whatever GPO limited version that comes with Dim Pro, and I definitely want more realistic strings, but the Mod wheel doesn't seem to do anything. What should the Mod wheel be assigned to for more realistic bowings?

Thanks-

-Susan

ORIGINAL: Susan G

Hi Danny-

GPO opts for realism by design. If you expect to get a great sound by just pressing a key on your controller, then you'll be disappointed. Proper use of the Mod wheel to mimic the actual friction and tension of the bow moving across the strings is crucial.

That's very interesting! I have whatever GPO limited version that comes with Dim Pro, and I definitely want more realistic strings, but the Mod wheel doesn't seem to do anything. What should the Mod wheel be assigned to for more realistic bowings?

Thanks-

-Susan

Hey Susan,

I don't have experience with the limited version of GPO, but their website has some good documentation on how to get the most expression and feel out of "playing" the software:

GPO Controls

GPO definitely takes more time and effort. You have to really "think violin" and use the controls to provide expression...as opposed to just play a keyboard. As many of the examples on their website show, the results can be quite stunning.

I have been using Garritan GPO for a few years now as incidental parts behind pop/rock tunes. I am not saying it is the best library out there, but it will serve you well if you put the time into it. (I sometimes spend half a day just getting the voicings right for a single tune.) Trust me on this, you won't get convincing orchestrations until you get into the controller data, detuning, and layering of section and solo instruments with slight variations in phrasing and dynamics. Ambience is important too. (I don't know if the LE verision supports these controllers or voicings.) Also spend some time doing some simple orchestartions and use realistic voicings that a composer/arranger would use. You can't just play a chord like you would on piano and hope to hear anything convincing. If you like, the Garritan site has a free on-line version of the Rimsky-Korsakov text on orchestration (with audio examples) which may be a good place to start. It's a bit like guitar patches: if you don't think like a guitar player when you construct your chords and strum patterns, it will always sound fake. The same applies to orchestral patches.

Hi Susan,
I have just begun to introduce more reeds (and french horn) into my arrangements. Mostly I do brief string sequences to beef up a bridge of a song that has already just about peaked dynamically. It gives a nice boost that is often followed by a break (for contrast) and a gradual rebuilding of intensity out to the end. I have not used the reeds solo yet, but more to reinforce or soften a string line. The little I have used them, they seem to be adequate, following predictable curves of stridency and darkness at the ends of their range. If you do get full blown GPO, look into the on-line tutorials available there on achieving realism in your sequences. It can be a bit labor intensive, and not everything turns out stellar, but I'm generally happy with the results.