Sycraft
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How is BFD3's stability and such?
I'm thinking I might want it, but a big thing for me is not having issues with my VIs. EastWest Play is a never ending source of issues, so I don't want something like that. So is BFD3 stable, like not crashing on load, insert, patch changes, bounce, etc? Also does it always bounce right (no dropouts, distortion, or pops or the like)?
Thanks.
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gmon72
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/22 23:13:47
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I haven't had it crash once. Using it with Cubase and Standalone from launch date.
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twaddle
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/23 08:02:57
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Sycraft
I'm thinking I might want it, but a big thing for me is not having issues with my VIs. EastWest Play is a never ending source of issues, so I don't want something like that. So is BFD3 stable, like not crashing on load, insert, patch changes, bounce, etc? Also does it always bounce right (no dropouts, distortion, or pops or the like)?
Thanks.
Hi Sycraft In answer to all of your questions it is very stable, I wouldn't say it's uncrashable but as a beta tester I was doing my best to crash it and I've not managed to for quite some time now so I would say it is extremely stable on my system (see my signature) The biggest issues some people have been having are to do with download and installation which fxpansion are working on although in some cases it can be user error. I can't recommend BFD3 highly enough and the new kits from platinum samples are really something else. Steve Edit, Just to add, there should be a demo along in the next week or so, so you can get a feel of it before you decide and see how stable it is on your system.
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ltb
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/23 08:51:12
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I've haven't use it in Sonar yet but it's locked up Cubase a few times.
Could be it's not playing nice with some other software. Alchemy sometimes causes problems & glitches.
Otherwise it's working well & stable. I prefer it over BFD2 but
wish it could be re-sized to BFD2's smaller gui.
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munmun
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/23 15:57:19
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I am a BFD2 user. I am not great at mixing drums and have struggled with getting those raw sounds to sound good. Does BFD3 have a lot of presets that would negate the need to tweek to get it great sounding?
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ltb
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/23 16:39:11
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There's a few good ones but I only use them as starting points.
I got some good results mixing inside BFD3 with their own effects as well.
With other software I usually need to mix everything from scratch inside the daw using other plugins.
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twaddle
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/23 16:41:01
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I'll be honest, it comes with 37 presets in total, I was expecting a lot more. I just asked on the forum if there were more planned for the future so will let you know what the official response is. I can't remember how many came with BFD2 but probably about the same number give or take a few. I'm not criticizing but you have to appreciate that it not really what BFD2 or BFD3 is about. I could tell you to get addictive drums if you don't want to spend time creating your own unique sounds and now that it's included with Sonar X3 you might be more inclined to upgrade. Addictive drums comes with just over 150 presets and most of their e3xpansion kits come with around 50 or so which is impressive. But to my ears the sound quality of addictive drums in quite poor in comparison to both BFD2, BFD3 and even BFD Eco. They are very compressed and they sound it too. I'm working on a song in BFD3 using one the included new kits and I have to say the sound of the kit is almost perfect and requires very little in the way of compression or effects, it just breaths and sounds so natural. But of course that all depends on what sound you're looking for. I might post it when I'm done. All the BFD2 kits and presets will load in to BFD3 and I spent an entire evening converting all my BFD Eco presets to be usable in BFD3 and have posted them on the forum. What genre of music do you play and what drums sounds are you trying to create ? Did you watch any of the video tutorials on mixing drums in BFD2 ? It's something that I found incredibly daunting for a long time but once I started watching videos and occasionally dipping in to the manual I was so glad I did. Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2013/10/25 19:37:27
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vintagevibe
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/23 22:25:21
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twaddle
But to my ears the sound quality of addictive drums in quite poor in comparison to both BFD2, BFD3 and even BFD Eco. They are very compressed and they sound it too.
Most of the presets are quite compressed but you have total control over compression in Addictive Drums.
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twaddle
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/24 05:29:51
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No, I'm talking about the compression that is applied before hand, the raw files that come with addictive drums are pre compressed and at a lower bit rate and it's very clear when I compare them to the raw sounds in BFD2. Addictive drums use a lossy-mp3-like compression that has less dynamic range. Also there are far fewer velocity layers which might not be as apparent when all the effects are turned on but are much more apparent when they're turned off.
Turning off the effects does not get rid of the pre processing.
Steve
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vintagevibe
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/24 23:37:29
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twaddle
No, I'm talking about the compression that is applied before hand, the raw files that come with addictive drums are pre compressed and at a lower bit rate and it's very clear when I compare them to the raw sounds in BFD2. Addictive drums use a lossy-mp3-like compression that has less dynamic range. Also there are far fewer velocity layers which might not be as apparent when all the effects are turned on but are much more apparent when they're turned off.
Turning off the effects does not get rid of the pre processing.
Steve
But you really don't know if that is a result of data compression or recording technique.
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twaddle
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 05:48:35
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A maximum of 16 velocity layers, 16 bit raw files and an MP3 losy compression are facts and I can hear that with my ears quite clearly. If by recording technique you mean mics, desk and room used then obviously these will affect the sound too but I am absolutely certain that what I hear is not the result of bad, or different recording techniques and everything to do poor with low bit rate and poor compression. To my ears it's like the difference between MP3's at 320kbps and 128kbps, not massive but quite noticeable. Hey vintage, do you not own BFD2 or BFD Eco ? Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2013/10/25 05:51:01
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gmon72
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 10:02:41
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Totally agree with a Steve regarding Addictive Drums. As a drum junkie who has bought most VSTis (BFD 1-3 almost all expansions, Superior drummer 2 plus all expansions, Slate Drums, both expansions, all of NI Abbey Road series, NI Studio Drummer, ocean way drums gold, drumasonic 2 and Luxory, plus sonic reality drum masters gold series and epik drums), Addictive Drums plus all expansions up to reel machines is the only VSTi I have ever sold. I found the compressed mp3 sound severely lacking especially compared to everything else.
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vintagevibe
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 10:05:50
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twaddle
A maximum of 16 velocity layers, 16 bit raw files and an MP3 losy compression are facts and I can hear that with my ears quite clearly.
If by recording technique you mean mics, desk and room used then obviously these will affect the sound too but I am absolutely certain that what I hear is not the result of bad, or different recording techniques and everything to do poor with low bit rate and poor compression.
To my ears it's like the difference between MP3's at 320kbps and 128kbps, not massive but quite noticeable.
Hey vintage, do you not own BFD2 or BFD Eco ?
Steve
I have BFD2 and BFD3 as welll as AD. I agree on the sound. i just don't think data compression is the culprit. BFD3 uses data compression also.
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cclarry
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 10:40:58
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twaddle
A maximum of 16 velocity layers, 16 bit raw files and an MP3 losy compression are facts and I can hear that with my ears quite clearly.
Steve
You might find these facts interesting... “All sounds in AD are recorded, edited and mixed at 24 bit/96 kHz. They are then converted to our own format, which is 44.1 kHz and uses variable bit depth; this is very effective on percussive sounds. Our compression algorithm is virtually lossless, and the signal to noise ratio is around 140db, equivalent of 24-bit resolution.” You guys have some awesome ears if you can hear this... I'm sure in a world of HEAVY Professionals who do lot's testing on these things...there would have been a tremendous outcry of "foul" if the so called 16 bit MP3 format you talked about was used... The RAW files were 24 bit 96 Khz...whereas the BFD 2 raw files are 24bit/48 khz.... Try turning off the effects on the drums in AD and then listen to the sound....you'll be surprised...
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twaddle
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 10:43:56
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Yes BFD3 has developed a lossless compression format. XLN audio could learn how it's done form fxpansion  Vintage, why do you think addictive drums is only 2GB in size ? It's severely (badly) compressed and it's NOT lossless and that makes all the difference, just like the difference between mp3s at 128kbps and 320kbps. Steve
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twaddle
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 10:52:06
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You might find these facts interesting...
“All sounds in AD are recorded, edited and mixed at 24 bit/96 kHz. They are then converted to our own format, which is 44.1 kHz and uses variable bit depth; this is very effective on percussive sounds. Our compression algorithm is virtually lossless, and the signal to noise ratio is around 140db, equivalent of 24-bit resolution.”
You guys have some awesome ears if you can hear this...
I'm sure in a world of HEAVY Professionals who do lot's testing on these things...there would have
been a tremendous outcry of "foul" if the so called 16 bit MP3 format you talked about was used...
The RAW files were 24 bit 96 Khz...whereas the BFD 2 raw files are 24bit/48 khz....
Try turning off the effects on the drums in AD and then listen to the sound....you'll be surprised...
I did and I wasn't.
That is interesting though. Is this the version that ships with Sonar X3 ?
Trust me, when I bought addictive drums in 2007 all of the facts I listed were true at that time.
I've not heard anything from them about new updates so I'd assumed it was still true but I'm glad to hear otherwise.
Perhaps I should update mine but I'm more than happy with BFD3.
Steve
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twaddle
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 10:55:23
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I'm sure in a world of HEAVY Professionals who do lot's testing on these things...there would have
been a tremendous outcry of "foul" if the so called 16 bit MP3 format you talked about was used...
The RAW files were 24 bit 96 Khz...whereas the BFD 2 raw files are 24bit/48 khz.... In a world of "heavy" professionals (whatever they are) addictive drums wouldn't get a look in. Don't get me wrong, for what it is I think AD is a great product but it's not something I would want to use in a professional studio and I am NOT a professional in any sense of the word. When I bought addictive drums I thought it was the best thing I'd heard and it was, at least until I heard BFD2. Anyway,whether it's down to a poorer compression format or just where and how it was recorded it doesn't sound close to the fxpansion stuff for dynamics and realism and now platinum samples have recorded the kits for BFD3 fxpansion have raised the bar for me. Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2013/10/25 11:54:53
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twaddle
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 12:34:39
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You might find these facts interesting...
The RAW files were 24 bit 96 Khz...whereas the BFD 2 raw files are 24bit/48 khz.... I must admit I didn't really know what the difference was between the different sample rates and have happily stayed at 44.1 khz partly because I got crackling at 48 khz but having just done a little reading it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference so this thread may interest you. 48kHz-vs-96kHz Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2013/10/25 12:41:36
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 12:40:01
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For whatever reason I don't think AD sounds as good as either the Toontrack or FXpansion stuff. That said it provides some nice "straight from the box" kits. I would say its in the ECO / EZDrummer arena rater than being a BFD/Superior competitor.
BFD 3 seems to have raised the bar surpassing my previous favourite, Superior drummer by a considerable margin. I prefered Superior to BFD 2 but the new BFD3 kits are amazing.
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vintagevibe
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 12:43:19
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When I A/B my Steven Slate Drums with twaddle
I'm sure in a world of HEAVY Professionals who do lot's testing on these things...there would have
been a tremendous outcry of "foul" if the so called 16 bit MP3 format you talked about was used...
The RAW files were 24 bit 96 Khz...whereas the BFD 2 raw files are 24bit/48 khz....
In a world of "heavy" professionals (whatever they are) addictive drums wouldn't get a look in.
Don't get me wrong, for what it is I think AD is a great product but it's not something I would want to use in a professional studio and I am NOT a professional in any sense of the word. When I bought addictive drums I thought it was the best thing I'd heard and it was, at least until I heard BFD2.
Anyway,whether it's down to a poorer compression format or just where and how it was recorded it doesn't sound close to the fxpansion stuff for dynamics and realism and now platinum samples have recorded the kits for BFD3 fxpansion have raised the bar for me.
Steve
We all have our own ears. I never used BFD2 for drum kits because I always liked AD far better. Even my Steven Slate Drums 4 is collecting virtual dust. I do think that BFD3 is definitely more real sounding than anything else I have.
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twaddle
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 12:51:24
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Therein lies the fundamental difference Vintage, both AD and Slate drums are made for people who want generic out of the box sounds.
I'm not going to get in to a debate about what I perceive to be the rights and wrongs regarding people who don't have the time or creative ability to produce they're own sounds but it's obvious that people who don't want to spend time learning how to mix drums will prefer AD or Slate over BFD or Superior Drummer 2.
I prefer the latter because I love the sound and power of natural unprocessed drums and although daunting at first I'm so glad I put in the hours and learnt to do it my self.
Steve
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Leadfoot
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 12:56:55
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I have to say also that I prefer my BFD Eco, and even Kitcore, to AD. Just not impressed with the sound.
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twaddle
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 13:05:11
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Leadfoot
I have to say also that I prefer my BFD Eco, and even Kitcore, to AD. Just not impressed with the sound.
I agree Leadfoot, in essence the sounds in Eco are the same as BFD2, just lower sample and bit rate but still have the same warmth and depth. I have to give AD a lot credit for their abundance of presets though, there are so many and so varied for a 2GB footprint that's extremely impressive. BFD3 comes with just 37 presets whereas AD has around 150 so for those that don't know, or don't want to know how to mix drums I'd say that a massive plus but I think it's very overpriced in comparison to it's more heavyweight opposition. Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2013/10/25 19:38:29
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 13:20:48
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Leadfoot
and even Kitcore, to AD..
I do not have Kitcore installed at the moment. It used to be my goto. Its really sad development seems to have been abandoned when Submersible sold to Somoma Wire works. Its the Sampletank of the drum VST world, very good sounds for their time but not touched for years, still 32 bit and flaky via bridges. It has great Midi loops from the likes of Alan White, Terry Bossio, Matt Sorum, Sly Dunbar and a host of other "names" but they are in a proprietary format so you need to run Kitcore to drag them into a track. hope. I did see something about a new version of Drumcore. Maybe there is hope.
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Leadfoot
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 13:42:20
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Glyn Barnes
Leadfoot
and even Kitcore, to AD..
I do not have Kitcore installed at the moment. It used to be my goto. Its really sad development seems to have been abandoned when Submersible sold to Somoma Wire works. Its the Sampletank of the drum VST world, very good sounds for their time but not touched for years, still 32 bit and flaky via bridges. It has great Midi loops from the likes of Alan White, Terry Bossio, Matt Sorum, Sly Dunbar and a host of other "names" but they are in a proprietary format so you need to run Kitcore to drag them into a track.hope.I did see something about a new version of Drumcore. Maybe there is hope.
I agree. I don't know why Sonoma bought Submersible out just to shelf Drumcore/Kitcore. I love my Matt Cameron kitpack. I would love to see a new 64bit version of Drumcore released, but it's been so long. I'm wondering if most people haven't moved on, and will even be interested.
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vintagevibe
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 14:40:51
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twaddle
Therein lies the fundamental difference Vintage, both AD and Slate drums are made for people who want generic out of the box sounds.
I'm not going to get in to a debate about what I perceive to be the rights and wrongs regarding people who don't have the time or creative ability to produce they're own sounds but it's obvious that people who don't want to spend time learning how to mix drums will prefer AD or Slate over BFD or Superior Drummer 2.
I prefer the latter because I love the sound and power of natural unprocessed drums and although daunting at first I'm so glad I put in the hours and learnt to do it my self.
Steve
First of all AD is easily as programmable as BFD if not more so. Second creative ability and time are two completely different things. Non professionals such as yourself may have plenty of time to tweak drum mixes. The most creative professional composers will not have that luxury because people pay them to be creative and they have deadlines. So your implication that only people with no creativity or who are too lazy to learn drum mixing is naive at best. Natural, unprocessed drums work for some styles and processed drums work for other styles. I use BFD when it sounds best, AD when it sounds best, SDD when it sounds best, KitCore or Battery when they are the best choice. If I'm working on a piece that needs unprocessed acoustic drums I can get equal results with BFD3, AD or SDD. It's all about context. Use what works for you.
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twaddle
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 15:39:53
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First of all AD is easily as programmable as BFD if not more so. Where did I suggest otherwise ? Of course AD is easier to program since its has far fewer features. Second creative ability and time are two completely different things. Non professionals such as yourself may have plenty of time to tweak drum mixes. The most creative professional composers will not have that luxury because people pay them to be creative and they have deadlines. I agree and understand that those who are being paid and have time constraints may not have the time that I and so many other home enthusiasts have although if they are as you say "professional" they should have a pretty good idea how to mix drums anyway and would surely prefer to have more control. I don't call my self professional mostly on account of the fact that the definition of professional means, "being paid" but I certainly don't believe that those who are making money are any more creative than me, productive maybe but not creative. The fact that music industry contracts require musicians to write and produce x amount of albums or projects per year is one of the reasons why so much music is just so bad. I'd be curious to know just how many sonar users are home enthusiasts and musicians trying to do it on their own with no record labels, how many are film scorers and all other manner of creative arts for which sonar and drums can be used. My guess is around half would be non paid bedroom musicians who make music for the love of it and for whom time isn't really such an issue. So your implication that only people with no creativity or who are too lazy to learn drum mixing is naive at best. I don't think I said that at all. I certainly didn't say or even suggest it was, "only people with no creativity or who are too lazy to learn" more that there are in my view, far too many people who fit very easily in to that catagory and that's not the same. As I said, I wasn't looking for a debate on what I think are the rights and wrongs of those who, "do" fit in to that catagory, nor was I intending to denigrate them but obviously I have an opinion. Suffice to say my preference is for "originality" and to me that means, NOT using generic presets but I totally understand why people do and of course they can sound great too. But for me it's only a stones throw from using other peoples loops or samples and whilst you can do it creatively it's not truly creative because it's not original and that's always been my bible. I struggle really hard to keep my music as original as I can and for that and a few reasons I never use midi loops or presets. It may well be that my music would be improved if I did but that's just me. Natural, unprocessed drums work for some styles and processed drums work for other styles. We're talking raw unprocessed samples here, I do an awful lot of processing and mashing up of my drums in BFD2 & 3 and rarely use just raw vanilla drums. Of course the way they're processed matters and can be what determines their genre too so processing is essential in that respect. I use BFD when it sounds best, AD when it sounds best, SDD when it sounds best, KitCore or Battery when they are the best choice. If I'm working on a piece that needs unprocessed acoustic drums I can get equal results with BFD3, AD or SDD. It's all about context. I didn't think you owned any BFD products ? Use what works for you. Yeah thanks Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2013/10/25 16:36:26
soundcloud SoundClick Myspace Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R, Intel i7 930, 3.40Ghz, 12GB Corsair DDR3 1TB WD SATA 6Gb X 2 Emu- 0404 PCIe Sonar X1d Expanded BFD3 + BFD2 + BFD Eco Dual boot windows 7, 32 & 64bit
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vintagevibe
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 21:48:38
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twaddle
I didn't think you owned any BFD products ? I've had BFD2 for quite a while but I only use it for the percussion and Zilijian libraries since I never liked the kits very much. I much prefer SSD and AD. I do like the kits in BFD3 and will no doubt use them. twaddleYeah thanks
Steve
No problem. Glad to help. 
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vintagevibe
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/25 21:54:07
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To the OP: I've had BFD3 for about a week and have had a few problems in Cubase 7.06. If I load and unload a lot of kits it sometimes will lock up and sometimes bring Cubase down. I had this problem with BFD2 also. Yesterday it locked up after I did a "Remove unused channels" command in the mixer. It was a big project with 3 instances of BFD3 but I've got plenty of RAM. Mostly it's been good and I really like the new kits. I'll log a support ticket when I get some time. Their support is excellent.
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twaddle
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Re: How is BFD3's stability and such?
2013/10/26 04:54:56
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vintagevibe
To the OP: I've had BFD3 for about a week and have had a few problems in Cubase 7.06. If I load and unload a lot of kits it sometimes will lock up and sometimes bring Cubase down. I had this problem with BFD2 also. Yesterday it locked up after I did a "Remove unused channels" command in the mixer. It was a big project with 3 instances of BFD3 but I've got plenty of RAM. Mostly it's been good and I really like the new kits. I'll log a support ticket when I get some time. Their support is excellent.
When you say this happened with BFD2 we're you using more than one instance of BFD2 as well ? I have ran two instances before in sonar quire happily but not for any serious projects but fxpansion don't recommend running more than one instance of BFD2 and although there's no official word as to whether this is advisable with BFD3 I'm guessing it might still be the case. maybe it was one of your posts I read on the BFD3 forum but I had read of people having some issues with Cubase. I haven't tried running more than one instance of BFD3 but it makes sense not to run more than one particularly for people with less ram as they'll soon run into problems and although BFD3 has a lower ram usage some kits, "the new PS kits for example" will use a lot more ram than older kits. Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2013/10/26 05:01:50
soundcloud SoundClick Myspace Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R, Intel i7 930, 3.40Ghz, 12GB Corsair DDR3 1TB WD SATA 6Gb X 2 Emu- 0404 PCIe Sonar X1d Expanded BFD3 + BFD2 + BFD Eco Dual boot windows 7, 32 & 64bit
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