Coreysan
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How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
If I make my C Drive an SSD for the OS and Cakewalk installation, and keep my D Drive as a SATA II hard drive
(meaning the two drives are dissimilar) will everything work well?
I know the OS will work, but when the data drive is a slower drive, and all the WAV files and projects
are there, will everything be okay?
Thanks for any reaction!
Corey
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John T
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 12:06:37
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That's more or less how I have it set up. All data is on SATA II drives, and the C drive is for OS and apps. The difference in speed between drives doesn't matter. Been running like that for about a year and a half.
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osd
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 13:04:42
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I assume the whole point of SSD is the speed difference DOES matter.
I also assume that samples and projects are loaded in memory and don't constantly hit the drive for read operations.
I do assume too much often.
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bitflipper
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 13:05:33
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Cakewalk has been using SSDs in their demo rigs for a long time. They work great. However, I doubt you'd get much of a performance gain using an SSD as the application home, as opposed to reading samples from it and writing audio. Since SSD's offer best performance with small files, it would seem that their best use would be as the repository of your project audio.
I'd love to incorporate an SSD into my setup. If I did, I'd copy my most-used libraries to it and keep the originals on a conventional hard drive. This is because even though a modern SSD is going to be very reliable, if it does fail you're likely to lose everything on it.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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John T
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 13:06:31
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What I mean is, the system isn't upset by one drive being different to another.
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John T
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 13:07:51
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Regarding performance, no, there's no benefit in terms of track counts and so on, if that's not where your data is stored. The benefit is that Windows itself will work more snappily, app launching will be faster and so on. It's quite a tangible difference with a good SSD. They're not all good, though, so do your research.
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osd
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 13:49:09
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bitflipper
Cakewalk has been using SSDs in their demo rigs for a long time. They work great. However, I doubt you'd get much of a performance gain using an SSD as the application home, as opposed to reading samples from it and writing audio. Since SSD's offer best performance with small files, it would seem that their best use would be as the repository of your project audio.
I'd love to incorporate an SSD into my setup. If I did, I'd copy my most-used libraries to it and keep the originals on a conventional hard drive. This is because even though a modern SSD is going to be very reliable, if it does fail you're likely to lose everything on it.
Interesting thought process, in that it seems to invert the traditional "ssd for os, hdd for samples" line. I guess it's a trade-off between OS stability vs. having faster sample loads.
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Coreysan
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 13:52:39
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Thanks so much for all this input! I can see the logic in using an SSD for the data drive. Good point!
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John T
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 13:55:59
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The thing is, the improvement in performance from using an SSD for a data drive is probably irrelevant for most use cases. If you're not having drop outs due to disk speed, then you gain nothing except an increase in the amount of tracks you *could* use (but probably aren't using). Sounds like a solution looking for a problem, to me.
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Alegria
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 14:02:55
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The only reason I'm not SSD'ed to death is the current cost. But I use an OCZ Vertex 3 SSD (120 GBs) for my OS and apps. drive. The benefits are undeniable. It also goes without saying even though I am, that the most beneficial role of an SSD is for samples (large demanding libraries like EastWest's Hollywood series and system resource hungry VSTs like Spectrasonics Trillian and Omnisphere). Also excellent for an audio drive even though the "writes" are not as efficient as the "reads". Whichever way you look at it, they are fast, quiet and only generate a fraction of the heat mechanical drives do. And as mentioned above, do your research before purchasing. Good luck!
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ProMusic27
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 14:06:10
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John T
The thing is, the improvement in performance from using an SSD for a data drive is probably irrelevant for most use cases. If you're not having drop outs due to disk speed, then you gain nothing except an increase in the amount of tracks you *could* use (but probably aren't using). Sounds like a solution looking for a problem, to me.
Agreed. If I had one SSD it will be for OS and Apps...
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hatflyer
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 14:28:15
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so if 1 has drop-outs, it's best to put the samples on the SSD and Sonar on the SATA HD if it does not fit on the SSD?
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TobyC
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 14:45:29
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I've just moved to an SSD for programs, instruments and samples etc but left a SATA drive for audio (and video) data. Apart from a super-fast startup time (Win 7 64bit) loading samples into DimPro, for example is very much quicker. So that's what I like. What I didn't like was the cost of a Samsung SSD!
I should say that my Gigabyte GA-EX58UD3R motherboard is only Sata 2 spec and the memory I'm using isn't the quickest. So things should be even better with a more up-to-date chipset and RAM. But even so, I'm really loving the new setup here.
Hope this helps you decide.
Best wishes,
Toby
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John T
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 14:47:39
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hatflyer
so if 1 has drop-outs, it's best to put the samples on the SSD and Sonar on the SATA HD if it does not fit on the SSD?
Not necessarily. Depends what the cause of the drop outs is. And the point I was making is that this is highly unlikely to be down to the HDD for most scenarios these days.
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B.R.
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 16:08:55
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I installed 2 SSD's recently...one for samples and one for audio. I still have regular SATA's for programs (including OS) and backup. Vista here. Right after installing the SSD's and moving audio projects and samples to them, I noticed MORE crackling during playback of the same project. However, a few days later after adding more plugins to the project and having to freeze some of the tracks to eliminate horrible, unbearable crackling, I re-saved the project back to the original, non-SSD audio drive (I have not bothered to pull it out yet). Well, now THAT drive plays the project much worse than the SSD...far more crackling, dropouts, etc. So it's hard to tell if the SSD is benefiting me or not. Maybe the computer is stressing because I have so many SATA hard drives in there, I dunno...
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skylightron
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 16:17:05
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Can an SSD be installed on any type of Motherboard or does it have to have a special SSD connector?
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John T
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 16:19:04
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I think they're mostly standard SATA II/III connections.
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B.R.
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 16:19:09
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They just install into a SATA port like regular SATA hard drives--same plug and cord.
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Alegria
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 17:06:26
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You'll need SATA 3 (6 GBs) ports to take advantage of the current generation of SSD drives.
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osd
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 17:13:32
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Or the 3GBs are getting pretty cheap if you don't need or support the current spec. My 80GB Intel 320 SSD Retail Kit was a little over $100.
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Alegria
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 17:20:28
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That works also! 
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gtgarner
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 22:54:12
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I have Raid 0 ssd's and Sonar works just great
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mettelus
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/22 23:33:25
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Depending on system, dual drives in general will increase speed, since you can read data from each drive simultaneously. SSDs are best used with "static" data, so I moved data files to the HDD (as well as SONAR data files). If you have never had an SSD before, be sure to look at sites referencing them (and your specific type). Although many programs recognize an SSD and do not perform operations they "hate;" some do not, and can cause issues (e.g. no defragging, do not store an index file on the SSD, etc.). I have an SSD Win7 drive and SATA III HDD for data and some apps. This runs very well, but the learning curve was steep for a few days on the SSD itself. The only tip site (for just the SSD) that I bookmarked was: http://blog.tune-up.com/t...-to-optimize-your-ssd/ Also, if you are unfamiliar, research SATA II versus SATA III, as putting an SSD on SATA II will not be as fast as you expect! I have a 240GB C drive, and this fit all applications I use without issues. A good benchmarking site (drives, CPUs, Graphics cards) is: http://www.harddrivebench...t/high_end_drives.html
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osd
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/23 00:45:48
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I was mulling this thread over today. It seems like there are a number of types of files that could be stored on SSD:
1. OS/Apps
2. Sample Libraries
3. Projects
My SSD is far too small to host sample content, but how about projects?
Would there be any advantage to copying current project files and per-project audio folders onto the OS' ssd drive? I figure during mixing most the reads will be on the project audio files. And those files (especially if I just migrate a few current projects to the SSD) aren't terribly large. Just a thought...
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paulhcp
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/23 06:49:34
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Alegria
Quote
the most beneficial role of an SSD is for samples (large demanding libraries like EastWest's Hollywood series and system resource hungry VSTs like Spectrasonics Trillian and Omnisphere).
This would be my reason for upgrading. Can you explain this in more detail as I question how much more the performance is improved?
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John T
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/23 09:06:41
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Not presuming to speak for Algeria, but here's a stab at an answer.
Say you're using an instrument like Dimension Pro. DimPro patches are small enough that they just load into memory when the project starts and that's that.
Then you might have an instrument like, say, BFD, which uses a *lot* more sample data, with multiple layers and all kinds. BFD will load a fair amount of data into memory, and will also do some shuffling data in off the hard drive when it needs it. So you've got an onging disk access there.
Then at the top end of the scale, something like the really massive EastWest orchestral instruments, forget about it. They will be doing a lot of shuffling sounds in and out of ram, on all but the most colossally specced machines. So more of a disk access issue.
Whether this ever comes up for you as a problem is really down to what kind of work you do, how your regular drives hold up, all kinds of stuff.
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John T
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/23 09:08:52
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I think for many cases, lots of RAM is a better solution to this problem than an SSD.
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Sickvision 
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/23 09:51:07
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bitflipper
Cakewalk has been using SSDs in their demo rigs for a long time. They work great. However, I doubt you'd get much of a performance gain using an SSD as the application home, as opposed to reading samples from it and writing audio. Since SSD's offer best performance with small files, it would seem that their best use would be as the repository of your project audio.
I'd love to incorporate an SSD into my setup. If I did, I'd copy my most-used libraries to it and keep the originals on a conventional hard drive. This is because even though a modern SSD is going to be very reliable, if it does fail you're likely to lose everything on it.
i have 2 crutial SSD drives in a raid for my os and another 2 drives one being a SSD, no issues here with 3 different drives in use
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Sickvision
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/23 09:58:29
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skylightron
Can an SSD be installed on any type of Motherboard or does it have to have a special SSD connector?
the only issue is if your looking for high transfer rates, using a SSD with 6m transfer rate on a MB that only offer the standard 3 Mb then you will only get the 3 MB transfer rate. iv used them on my older computer there where no isuess past the transfer rate to get high rates you only need a sata3 cable and have a MB with sata 3 putting 2 sata3 drives in a raid 0_1 can bring trouble .as only a few MB have sata 3 raid figured out corectly. its then about your raid controler
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mettelus
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Re:How is Sonar doing with an SSD?
2012/03/23 11:18:41
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Some HDD basics, since I used to design/build them for Seagate. A HDD is mechanical in that the head is on a moving arm. Even though this arm (Head Stack Assembly, or HSA) can have multiple heads, only one can read at a time. Additionally the head must seek to find the next file (or fragments of a file being opened, which is why defragging a HDD ONLY is important for speed). So... if you have to open 60,000 files... a HDD must do them in series, determine the head and seek/read. The seek times add up causing the time delays. An SSD is essentially a giant flash drive with no moving parts, so can maximize the computer's bus/processor speeds (why knowing this is important as a SATA III SSD on a SATA II connection will only yield SATA II transfer rates). This is why I reiterated in my previous post to understand the system. One component alone is not the "answer" and can cause disappointment! Please research before thinking an SSD makes the machine, as it does not, but it can enhance it if the machine can support it fully. Even SSDs have disadvantages, in that the memory cells only have a certain life, so writes can degrade the drive over time (why data files which change content are recommended not to use)... however... take this with a grain of salt, in that this "degradation" often outlasts the longevity of the machine anyway (by the time the SSD is expected to "degrade" the computer is obsolete).
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