Bflat5
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How to Clean Up Bass Track?
Clean up a bass track? This track was recorded so extremely saturated that some spots just blur together. Is there a way to mellow that out without redoing the entire track? It's caused by the distortion from the amp, not the settings in Sonar. I've tried getting him to run clean so I could add the FX in the mix, but the jack leg won't do it. Any suggestions?
post edited by Bflat5 - 2014/10/08 12:19:03
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liberty
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 00:53:28
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Izotope Rx3 declip, may be
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 02:00:06
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You'd probably get better results by taking a stand and showing him you really can't work with this. Whenever possible, strive to fix it at the source.
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John
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 03:24:02
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Why not record both with a Y connector. Mic and direct in on two tracks?
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 03:28:21
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I agree - anything that cleans the audio is likely going to leave it sounding pretty flat. The guy needs to know that you cannot effectively alter that signal if he is applying that distortion prior to it being fed into Sonar, and that there isn't much you can do other than to redo the track properly. It's really the same thing as having a guitar player add a bunch of effects ahead of his signal going into Sonar. It may sound OK, but then you can't alter those effects through any magic in Sonar - that processed tone is what you get, because that's what he gave Sonar. Good luck, Bob Bone
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 03:35:42
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A thought - would it work to split the signal off AHEAD of where he adds the distortion, so that you feed a clean signal into Sonar, but still give him a signal that he can add distortion to for him to hear while he is playing? (lots of direct boxes allow the signal to be split). Don't know if the above would give you something that would meet the needs, but in some cases it works. That is sometimes done with guitars, to create multiple feeds into Sonar, each with a different tone, that can then be processed differently in Sonar, and blend back together to give a much richer sound than would be achieved with a single signal. Bob Bone
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SvenArne
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 04:00:37
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I think any approach/DSP that might be able to clean up the track would still leave you wishing the recording had been done properly to begin with. While some magical FX might make the notes sound cleaner, the transients would still be suffering from the extreme compression.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 06:28:28
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I don't mind when someone wants to have "his own tone" in Sonar, and certainly I would prefer a really good guitarist to bring his own gear rather than fiddle with amp sims to create the sound that he can dial in in seconds. However, that doesn't seem to be the case here. Without knowing more background story, I can see one of two scenarios; 1. You are paying him for recording bass on YOUR project. In which case he needs to STFU and do what you're asking, or 2. He's paying YOU to make a recording of him on HIS project. In which case you can let him listen to the recording (with the rest of the band, preferably) and say that you don't think this sound is very workable. He can either agree and redo the recording, or he won't agree and you'll deliver a crap bass sound because that's what the client wanted.
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Grem
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 07:29:25
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This is my suggestion:
Bottom line, you are the recording engineer. It's your job to get the sound you need, while the player is as comfortable as can be.
To do this you need certain tools. One being a direct box. That way you can get the clean sound you need and the player gets the sound he wants.
If your paying him, get your moneys worth and have him play his best. He will do this if he is confident in his playing/sound.
It's all about the "capture." As the recording engineer, you have to be ready and able to capture the feel, the sound, the moment. Whether your being paid or not.
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Dan Cate [Cakewalk]
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 10:31:11
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It's hard to tell without hearing the source material however, you can try using Transient Shaper to get some definition back into the performance. A fast attack and a short decay concentrating on higher timbres could define the muddier parts a little bit.
Thanks! Daniel Cate [Cakewalk]
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johnnyV
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 11:45:25
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As others have said above it's important as the engineer to always capture a workable signal from all sources. You will be blamed and your name is on it. So you just learned a lesson and from now on you will make sure you record using a DI and the Mike. And even if it's a client paying you and they think it sounds fine, If you think it's crap then you'll have to decide if you want to carry on working with this client. Twice I have sent clients home as I could see a very bad sounding album happening because of musicians trying to tell me what to do. And the issues both times were to do with them insisting on using their equipment which was in bad shape and sounded terrible. Most musicians are happy to use my equipment and even my Bass or guitars if need be. Not everyone owns recording friendly gear. That's why all good studio's will have the commonly used gear on hand and maintain it. Including a good drum kit, bass amp and even a good old Fender P or Jazz bass.
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DrLumen
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 12:08:11
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Sanderxpander I don't mind when someone wants to have "his own tone" in Sonar, and certainly I would prefer a really good guitarist to bring his own gear rather than fiddle with amp sims to create the sound that he can dial in in seconds. However, that doesn't seem to be the case here. Without knowing more background story, I can see one of two scenarios; 1. You are paying him for recording bass on YOUR project. In which case he needs to STFU and do what you're asking, or 2. He's paying YOU to make a recording of him on HIS project. In which case you can let him listen to the recording (with the rest of the band, preferably) and say that you don't think this sound is very workable. He can either agree and redo the recording, or he won't agree and you'll deliver a crap bass sound because that's what the client wanted.
I would have to agree completely here. I really can't speak from a recording perspective so I'm not sure what is acceptable for an engineer to expect or demand. However, in a live sound environment it is not really up to the engineer to try to change or alter the overall sound of the group. Perhaps the band's "sound" is to sound like crap. (shrugs) Wouldn't be the first time...
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Bflat5
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 12:12:44
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Thanks for the replies. The problem is it really didn't sound bad until I tried mixing it with everything else, then it just became over saturated in some places. It will have to be re-recorded. I think if I run direct out on his amp I can capture a clean signal and he play as dirty as he wants.
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Anderton
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 12:15:53
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Depending on the part, if you can double it with a keyboard sampled bass, it can provide an undercurrent of notes with the distortion as a layer on top. I actually do this quite a bit with bass but using parallel processing, where the direct bass sound itself is one path and the saturated sound is in parallel. That way you can combine them for just the right balance. Also good tip from Dan about using the transient shaper with bass, even if it's not applicable in this situation. Hmmm...given that it's DSP month, maybe I should write an article about that.
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SvenArne
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 12:30:49
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Bflat5 Thanks for the replies. The problem is it really didn't sound bad until I tried mixing it with everything else, then it just became over saturated in some places. It will have to be re-recorded. I think if I run direct out on his amp I can capture a clean signal and he play as dirty as he wants.
I would try recording the both the DI and mic'd signal like others suggested. An SM57 will do nicely for capturing the buzz from the cab. Bracket the mic track with hi- and lopass filters, that way it can lie on top of the "meat" DI track as a special effect. The "fuzzy" sound is obviously something the player likes, so you could throw him a bone. I do not agree that a paid engineer should be an apathetic puppet to the whims of the Talent. Even if your're not getting producer's royalties, your name goes in the booklet and you owe it to both yourself and the band to try and nudge their opinion towards getting the best possible result! Sven
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wizard71
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Re: Is this possible?
2014/10/08 15:36:08
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John Why not record both with a Y connector. Mic and direct in on two tracks?
I agree with John. You could even use the direct for the lows and the saturation for the upper mids.
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