How to EQ Spit in Vocal

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chasmcg
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2013/07/30 15:48:42 (permalink)

How to EQ Spit in Vocal

My latest song, after mixing and mastering, has spots where my spit (saliva) is noticeable, at least to me. Without the compression it sounds fine. Anyone ever run into this and have any EQ suggestions that I might try without doing the vocal parts over. Thanks. 

chasmcg

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    The Band19
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/07/30 19:03:53 (permalink)
    Just slope the beginning and ending of the phrases so it's less noticeable, also a deesser may help. Other than that, there's mic technique, distance, pop filter.

    Sittin downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
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    ChuckC
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/07/31 07:33:24 (permalink)
    I like to add a little 8K to my spit.  It helps it have more body.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/07/31 08:09:30 (permalink)
    just wipe it off......
     
    No one wants a dry mouth when trying to sing..... but there does need to be a balance.... maybe swallow a bit more often...
     
    also, if that doesn't work... use auto punch to fix the spots....
     
    EQ to taste, but try not to use EQ to fix it. Better to record it correctly the first time.....

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    michaelhanson
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/07/31 23:30:41 (permalink)
    I had a vocal that got a little breathy once and used Robbie's technique with good success. Trim the wave form close to the spot that you want to cut back on and then do a fast slope curve.

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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/01 05:24:45 (permalink)
    Saliva sounds are surely more difficult to remove than sibilants, because they are connected to any type of phones, not only s's and similar. I find it annoying  in speech on many radio stations. Especially female voices get often intolerably "wet" and squelchy due to the automatic compression used.
     
    I think you can reduce it by working on the way you articulate. Not moving ones jaws enough when speaking/singing increases the sounds.
     
     

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    chasmcg
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/01 20:04:33 (permalink)
    Thanks for the replies, guys. Will see what I can do with the slope.
     
    Here's the song I'm referring to. Posted it a few weeks back in the song forum. Didn't mention it when I posted it and no one said anything about it but I notice it a lot. But as they say, my own worst critic. Any critiques on the spit is appreciated.
     
    http://soundcloud.com/sparkplugjohnny/class-of-63-50-years
     
     

    chasmcg

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/01 22:27:44 (permalink)
    Chas firstly I must say I love this. Man this groove has got some serious attitude. I Love it! A lot of grooves can be whimpy, there is nothing whimpy about this man!
     
    OK this is defintely a case of you being the only one I think that can hear and is agonising over it! If you had not mentioned anything about the problem I doubt I or most would have ever heard it. Don't sweat it! See you are very close to it, too close now. For someone that has just heard this for the first time it was like, Whoa I love it!
     
    If I were to edit this and attempt to clean it up this is primo case for the editing software now. Open up the whole vocal track. I would start with what Band19 was saying. Any spit noise on its own I would silence. In other cases if it were to be present at the same time as your vocals I would microscopically select those areas and apply a LPF from about 5K or so. That would silence the effected areas but you would have to be careful with this too because if it happened at the same time as an 'S' or a 'T' I would be inclined to leave it because those things would in the end be more important. But as I said above it is pretty hard to hear.
     
    Man the song is just so good and the delivery so epic it just overshadows it by a mile!
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2013/08/01 22:49:50

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    The Band19
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/02 00:45:37 (permalink)
    I just finished "re-recording" 4 vocal tracks... For my good friend Mr. No999. It took several days.
     
    Vocals are "tricky?" 
     
    And compressing them, EQing them, making them sit in the mix? It's all tricky. However, a song with vocals? The vocals 1) must be heard, 2) must be legible? (however they are clearly not always) and 3) "See 1)" It's tricky to make them sit right in the mix. If it's done correctly, you don't notice it. If it's done "incorrectly?" you notice it every time...
     
    IMNSHO, a song with vocals tells a story? And at the end of the song, you should  be able to ask someone who just heard it for the 1st time, OK, 1) What is the name of the song? (it's in the hook), 2) What is the song about? i.e., what is it saying? And if it is well written, well performed, well recorded, and well mixed? Then they should be able to answer those questions with no problems. 
     
    A song w/vocals is fine with Lead instruments? However, the vocals should take "center stage..." They are conveying the meaning and the message of the song. As a lyricist, and a singer, I have STRONG opinions on this subject.
    post edited by The Band19 - 2013/08/02 01:08:40

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    The Band19
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/02 00:46:19 (permalink)
    Dupe 1
    post edited by The Band19 - 2013/08/02 00:47:59

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    The Band19
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/02 00:46:32 (permalink)
    Dupe 2.
    post edited by The Band19 - 2013/08/02 00:48:21

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/02 01:41:28 (permalink)
    And one of the best ways to ensure all of the stuff that TheBand19 has mentioned above happens is to START with the vocals first when doing a mix. Then you get everything else in afterwards. When you do this you end up with a track that is vocally strong yet the music is sitting nicely with the vocals.
     
    When you do it the other way around (as most do ) and get all the instruments happening first then you are trying to squeeze the vocals in almost as an after thought at the last minute. What you end up with then is a great sounding music track with the vocals trying hard to make it into the picture and often not making it in well either.
     
    I find an excellent way to balance vocals and music is on a small mono speaker (a la Auratone) down at low volume. It just seems to work great. It is harder to do this loud on big speakers.

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    chasmcg
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/02 08:26:54 (permalink)
    Jeff, thanks a lot for your input. Glad you like it. I wrote this song for my high school class' 50th reunion. Want it to be perfect and the saliva really stands out in spots to me. For my vocal I used Izotope's Nectar and one of their presets. To me it made my voice sound like I wanted to hear. But the compression brought out the spit. :-) Trade offs in everything, I guess.
     
    The Band19, thanks again for your input.

    chasmcg

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    The Band19
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/02 21:45:01 (permalink)
    If you can't get the mix the way you want it, then comp the vocals in, re-check your pre-amp settings, I squeeze it a little on the way in and aim for peaks around -12.
     
    So practice the 1st phrase, record it, listen to the recording and decide if you're happy with it. You can solo it, and run it through your other compressors and FX. If you are happy? Then start a bit before the end of it, sing along with it, and sing the next phrase. Listen to it. If you're not happy with it, re-record it until you are.
     
    This technique can be tedious? However, in the long run, in the end it sounds like a continuous performance (if done correctly) and it's the best of multiple takes. I try to stay about 12 inches from the pop filter (works for me) and also, you can sing it differently. There's singing it aggressively, "in your face." There's singing it smoothly, there's singing it expressively, many different techniques to get the performance to match the song. 
    post edited by The Band19 - 2013/08/02 21:49:01

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    timidi
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/03 19:54:08 (permalink)
    Nice job on the tune Chas. I didn't hear any spit sounds.

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    EliasO
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/04 03:11:59 (permalink)
    You can try automation. It may work! Many people do it with the "bbpbp" and "sssss" sounds in the vocal from wrong vocal filtering while recording. Zoom into the track and draw an automation that lowers the volume at those spots. 
     
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    jacktheexcynic
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/04 11:47:09 (permalink)
    try an expander/gate on your vocals. play with the threshold until the vocals sound natural. if the spit sound isn't too loud then this may clean most of it with minimal effort. then, as someone said, get a pop filter and sing off-axis to the mic so that the sss sounds, spit, breathing, etc., go "past" the mic. with practice you can learn to control those sounds and your mic position while singing to reduce those noises.

    - jack the ex-cynic
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    chasmcg
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/08 19:33:35 (permalink)
    Tim, thanks. Glad you liked it. No one mentioned it when I first put it in the song forum. So I'm going to leave it as it is (for now).
     
    Also, thanks for all the replies, guys. Will keep all your comments in mind on my next trip to the mic. :-)

    chasmcg

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    Danny Danzi
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/09 13:53:25 (permalink)
    Can't speak on the spit thing Chas...but man, I sure did love that song and the mix! I don't visit the song forum much anymore (unfortunately) so I didn't know it was posted.
     
    The only thing I'd tweak on this mix is the ssssssssssss on the cymbals. They just seem a bit overly bright to me. But everything else was awesome and well balanced...for what it's worth. GREAT drum sound too...what did you use on that?
     
    The spit thing is a hard thing to fix AFTER the fact. De-essers, slip editing, fliters, and sometimes even light noise reduction choosing the right frequency can help with this. Heck there's actually tools in Adobe Audition that have helped me remove some weird things that nothing else has...so most times, you just have to experiment. If compression is what brought it on, you can always lessen the compression and just run more automation. That's really what we're supposed to do...but compressors have made us lazy at times....so we use a bit more than we should because sometimes the automation on a vocal can be a real drag. LOL!
     
    Anyway, great job on the song....I say leave the spit...it sounds fine to my ears brother. No one else will notice but you. Remember...even when something is sometimes blatantly obvious, no one will ever be as close to the stuff as you...so it will pass right by them. Short story real fast...
     
    I played at Harborfest in Oswego NY a few weekends ago, 54,000 people. Our bassist had a real problem with his bass rig. We were on the chopping block having never played this place before...so they were watching our every move like hawks. We won them all over of course and will be back next year....but when his bass rig went down, me and the singer sprung into action to do a (we do a Van Halen tribute show) Eddie and Dave call and answer without missing a beat. From there, I got the dumb idea to go into "Take Your Whiskey Home" which the band hadn't played in about 4 months just to do the intro to kill time. The bassist fixed his rig and we went right into that song.
     
    At the end of the show, people came up to us telling us how much they loved the show and what puzzled me was....about 10 of them said "awesome job trying to fool us with the bass rig going down...we knew that was part of the show!" To us, this was such a blatant error....how could they think it was part of the show? Well, we didn't let them think any different and replied with "yep, you figured us out...darn it!" This was a visual...yours is just audio....moral of the story brother....don't sweat it, you did a fantastic job all across the board and no one will know unless you tell them. :)
     
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    chasmcg
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/09 16:57:19 (permalink)
    Danny, thanks for listening and for your comments. Glad you liked it. I learned long ago not to point anything out because that's the first thing anyone would notice about your song (or life in general).
     
    I got the drums from Big Fish Audio. It's Scott Rockenfield (Queensryche) and are called Big Rock Drums. The cymbals may be a little bright. I did nothing to them as far as EQ. They sounded great to me and I figured the guys that were recording these knew a lot more than me and had a lot better equipment than me so I left them alone.
     
    Great story about your gig at Harborfest. 

    chasmcg

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: How to EQ Spit in Vocal 2013/08/11 09:41:27 (permalink)
    ditto... as I listened, I couldn't hear anything that stuck out to me.  I think perhaps if I could hear the vox soloed as you can, then perhaps yes, BUT... when in the mix the vocals sounded fine.
     
    The mix can cover a multitude of minor issues so ... while this is something that you heard and were concerned about, most listeners would never hear it if you didn't point it out..... so learn to correct this issue with singing technique now that you are aware of it.... and keep recording some rocking tunes.

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