konradh
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How to Erase Offset - WAIT A MINUTE - SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT
Will cutting all automation get rid of Offset? This is the most screwed-up feature ever created.
post edited by konradh - 2014/01/02 18:19:56
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 02:10:34
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No. Offset is a "mode". Any changes made in that mode aren't visually reflected or adjustable in the "normal" mode (Which is envelope mode).
They are completely independent of each other although changes made in one are audible in the other.
To reset (or see a visual indication) of adjustments in Offset mode you need to re-enter that mode and make the adjustments.
It can be useful for making overall changes once lots of automation has been written but as you are finding out can also cause much confusion, especially if you have inadvertently entered that mode which is usually done by accidentally pressing "O" on the qwerty keyboard.
The trouble with earlier versions of Sonar is the visual indication that you are in Offset mode is just a "+" beside the volume and pan controls which is easily missed.
In X3 there is now an indicator in the mix module of the control bar which is a little more obvious.
If you have no use for offset mode you can bind the "O" key to the "Do nothing" function found in the keyboard shortcuts list which will at least stop you accidentally entering that mode in future.
HTH
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Lynn
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 12:22:49
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Hi Konradh, I've seen that you're having problems grokking the offset mode. I find it very useful and quick for making changes to automated tracks. Here's what I'm talking about. Say, I have ten tracks in a project, and one of them has a volume envelope. I decide that I need to raise or lower that track relative to the rest of the tracks, and I want to keep my envelope intact and have it go up or down with the overall volume of the track. I enter offset mode. No matter what the volume level was (say, -5.4), when I enter offset mode, the volume will jump to 0 db. That's just a starting point. I want to raise the level by a full point to -4.4, then I raise the track that's in offset mode to +1.0. Exit offset mode and the volume will jump back to -5.4, yet the overall level will have been raise by a full point without affecting the other tracks. You will then have effectively raised your envelope with the track at once by the same amount. If you have more than one track automated and want to change them all by an equal amount, just quick group them, hold ctrl and change them all at once. Just remember to exit offset mode, and keep track of the changes to the affected tracks. If you want to change them again, the next time you go into offset mode, the faders will not show 0 db, but they will show the amount of change from 0 db that you last made. If you want to return to your original settings, just set those tracks back to 0 db, and you will be back where you started.
It's actually easier in practice than I may have described it, but it works like a charm if you keep track of your changes.
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SuperG
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 13:00:03
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Lynn
Hi Konradh, I've seen that you're having problems grokking the offset mode. I find it very useful and quick for making changes to automated tracks. Here's what I'm talking about. Say, I have ten tracks in a project, and one of them has a volume envelope. I decide that I need to raise or lower that track relative to the rest of the tracks, and I want to keep my envelope intact and have it go up or down with the overall volume of the track. I enter offset mode. No matter what the volume level was (say, -5.4), when I enter offset mode, the volume will jump to 0 db. That's just a starting point. I want to raise the level by a full point to -4.4, then I raise the track that's in offset mode to +1.0. Exit offset mode and the volume will jump back to -5.4, yet the overall level will have been raise by a full point without affecting the other tracks. You will then have effectively raised your envelope with the track at once by the same amount. If you have more than one track automated and want to change them all by an equal amount, just quick group them, hold ctrl and change them all at once. Just remember to exit offset mode, and keep track of the changes to the affected tracks. If you want to change them again, the next time you go into offset mode, the faders will not show 0 db, but they will show the amount of change from 0 db that you last made. If you want to return to your original settings, just set those tracks back to 0 db, and you will be back where you started.
It's actually easier in practice than I may have described it, but it works like a charm if you keep track of your changes.
+1
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Anderton
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 13:57:06
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Another thing that's GREAT about offset mode is you can run off three versions of a tune easily - one with vocal up, one with vocal down, and one where you think the vocal should be. Sometimes when mastering messing with the imaging will alter center channel levels. In that case you can just load a different version, but keep the mastering processors the way you like them.
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stevec
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 14:11:08
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SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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konradh
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 14:23:52
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Thanks for all the patient advice from everyone as I have been ranting a bit lately.  I have moved the CD release party date twice now and I am getting a bit touchy! I absolutely see the good uses for Offset and will follow some of the suggestions here, although I have disabled the O key because it is a tiger pit. Craig, To make sure I understand your point, I think you are saying 1-Export your normal mix, then 2-go to Offset and pull the vocal fader down and export, then 3-go to Offset mode and push the fader up and export. When done, go to Offset mode and set the fader to nominal. (1, 2, and 3 could be in a different order.) I assume what you are tyring to get is different overall levels of the vocal, with the relative movements intact. Anyone who does commercials would love that. I never delivered a jingle without at least half-a-dozen mixes (e.g., long, short, donut, track only, etc.). The problem is that I have had some for-real bugs with automation going on and then when you throw Offset into the mix, things get confusing. Yesterday (Jan 1) I had to delete a day and a half worth of automation because after exporting twice and changing nothing but editing one volume node on a guitar track, all the volumes were way off and apparently not related to fader positions. I know I was not in offset mode and, ever if I were, that would not suddenly change all the track levels. I assume touching the O alone (which I didn't) wouldn't automatically reset all the track volumes. Anyway, all the advice has been great. I will recreate my mix and pray the strange bugs do not reappear. As many of you know, my system has been haunted from Day 1 and I have a lot of problems, many of which seem to be somewhat unique to my set-up. Happy New Year, guys.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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Lynn
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 14:24:43
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Anderton
Another thing that's GREAT about offset mode is you can run off three versions of a tune easily - one with vocal up, one with vocal down, and one where you think the vocal should be. Sometimes when mastering messing with the imaging will alter center channel levels. In that case you can just load a different version, but keep the mastering processors the way you like them.
Yes! This is how I mainly use the offset mode, myself. It takes only seconds to quick group either the vocals or instruments for adjustment. Even if I'm using MIDI tracks from a hardware synth, the MIDI tracks move accordingly with the audio tracks. Great for quick, macro adjustments.
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Lynn
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 14:28:37
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Konradh, when exporting, just don't forget to exit offset mode first after making your changes. Your changes will still be present.
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dcumpian
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 15:13:30
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As an aside, I think it would be really useful if Sonar displayed the amount of offset when you leave offset mode. For example, if the fader was at -5.4 and you offset +1.0, the fader would read -5.4 (+1.0) when offset mode is off.
Other than that, I am happy with the way offset mode works.
Regards,
Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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konradh
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 18:14:02
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Dan, I agree.
Lynn, I will follow that advice, but can you explain why it matters? That may shed some light on the weird issues I am having. Thanks.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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konradh
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 18:22:53
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OK, you guys have been great but something is fishy big time here.
Went into the messed up project. Hit the O key. ONE TRACK—AND NOT THE SELECTED TRACK—showed a + after volume. (It was the bass track.) I selected other tracks and whenever I hit O, the bass track was the only one with the +. Finally, after selecting several different tracks, hitting O put a + in EVERY track.
This doesn't make sense. I thought OFFSET was global and affected all tracks. This experience is showing that sometimes it affects one random track, and sometimes affects all.
WTF?
Thanks.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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Lynn
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 18:40:49
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Was it because the bass had no automation? I believe tracks without it show the + sign. I only suggest exiting the offset mode in order to get used to getting out of it when you don't need it. EDIT: I check the + sign issue on one of my songs that has automation and found that all tracks show the + sign in offset mode. Therefor, I don't know what the deal is with your project. My bad.
post edited by Lynn - 2014/01/02 19:00:22
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konradh
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 21:06:18
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I had automation on every track. In the case of bass and drums, it was just a single node at the start of the track to ensure the song started with the right levels.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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konradh
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/02 21:18:33
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It now seems that if tracks are in folders, those tracks do NOT show the + when you hit O for offset. They may or may not be affected by the Offset. This is going to make it really hard to know for sure that I "un-Offset" everything. <<Proven to be incorrect.
EDIT: That theory is incorrect. I took everything out of folders and I am still getting random behavior. When I hit O, sometimes only one track shows the +; sometimes several tracks show the +. I have not yet found a scenario in which all tracks show the +. This means I have no way to know whether or not I have successfully removed any offsets from the tracks. This is truly a nightmare.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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dcumpian
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Re: How to Erase Offset
2014/01/03 10:17:59
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Konrad,
You should seriously consider contacting support and forwarding your project for analysis. If something got fubar'd, I think it would be really useful for Cakewalk to have a crack at figuring out what went wrong.
Regards,
Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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