MediumPimpin
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How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
I asked something similar before but failed to get a satisfying answer. Or i probably just don't understand what was being suggested.
I picked up Hollywood Orchestra. I want to create a song with let's say 15 violins. How do i do this without having to load the VST 15 times? There has to be a better option?
Thanks!
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Beepster
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/19 16:17:45
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If the plugin can accept multiple track inputs and has multiple outputs to feed to audio/instrument tracks then yeah, you just do the routing and a single synth would work.
You need to read the manual for the synth to find out what it's internal routing capabilities are. I doubt you are going to get 20 individual voices this way but you may be able to get away with only two or three instances of the synth IF it can handle "multitimbral" type input/output.
If it can only handle input from one source and output one signal then yeah... you have to insert a synth for each part.
In that case though you can use the "Freeze" option to freeze the synth instances (in the synth rack) to remove the synth from system resources. This will temporarily convert the track to audio and keep that instance from hogging system resources. You would have to unfreeze it to make any changes to your MIDI but (if you do it in the synth rack) you can still add/adjust effects.
So...
Read the manual for your synth to find out how to/if it can handle multiple inputs/outputs.
Read up of the Synth Rack "Freeze" function (not the "track freeze" function which will freeze your track effects).
Cheers.
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MediumPimpin
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/19 16:55:26
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Beepster
If the plugin can accept multiple track inputs and has multiple outputs to feed to audio/instrument tracks then yeah, you just do the routing and a single synth would work.
You need to read the manual for the synth to find out what it's internal routing capabilities are. I doubt you are going to get 20 individual voices this way but you may be able to get away with only two or three instances of the synth IF it can handle "multitimbral" type input/output.
If it can only handle input from one source and output one signal then yeah... you have to insert a synth for each part.
In that case though you can use the "Freeze" option to freeze the synth instances (in the synth rack) to remove the synth from system resources. This will temporarily convert the track to audio and keep that instance from hogging system resources. You would have to unfreeze it to make any changes to your MIDI but (if you do it in the synth rack) you can still add/adjust effects.
So...
Read the manual for your synth to find out how to/if it can handle multiple inputs/outputs.
Read up of the Synth Rack "Freeze" function (not the "track freeze" function which will freeze your track effects).
Cheers.
Ok, clear, finally. I'm surprised it has to be like this though. I'll start using the Freeze button then. Thanks.
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Beepster
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/19 17:19:46
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No, dude. Find out if your synth can accept and output multiple tracks/sounds first. Most can to a certain extent. You may be able to get the number of synths down significantly.
Like 4 ins/outs on the synth = 4 tracks covered = 5 instances of the synth in the project (as opposed to 20)
Also you need to ask yourself do you REALLY need each violin completely isolated? You may be able to input your separate MIDI performances and output the "summed" via a single stereo out on the synth (or whatever output routing is available).
So definitely take a look at what your synth can do then figure out the routing in Sonar.
Otherwise, yeah... "Freeze 20 instances" will work but that's kind of the "swatting a fly with a Buick" scenario and likely not necessary.... especially for a synth designed for orchestral work.
I am not familiar with that program though so maybe others can elaborate.
Cheers.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/19 17:20:03
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Wait up a minute.
First of all, list your system specs - we don't know what your machine can handle without a clear idea of it's capabilities.
Secondly, many of the more upmarket vsti's including Hollywood Orchestra should have a dedicated patch for multiple violins - 11 & 18 are common.
Using this feature means you only really need separate instances for different lines you want the violins to play
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slumbermachine
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/19 17:40:26
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If you are referring to the "Play" vsti, it allows you to load up multiple instruments within the vsti itself and has it's own mixer and reverb. So you could have multiple instruments playing that same midi track. Of course, you will probably need more tracks still in order to add specific articulations, that's when freezing comes in handy. I often will have one play instance loaded with - 1 violin section, 1 viola section, cello, and bass. Since they are mapped to only the instrument ranges, you can have them all loaded at the same time with them automatically playing their correct parts. Be sure to get the latest update since they just patched it also.
post edited by slumbermachine - 2015/11/19 17:52:56
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MediumPimpin
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/19 17:58:07
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slumbermachine
If you are referring to the "Play" vsti, it allows you to load up multiple instruments within the vsti itself and has it's own mixer and reverb. So you could have multiple instruments playing that same midi track. Of course, you will probably need more tracks still in order to add specific articulations, that's when freezing comes in handy.
I often will have one play instance loaded with - 1 violin section, 1 viola section, cello, and bass. Since they are mapped to only the instrument ranges, you can have them all loaded at the same time with them automatically playing their correct parts.
Be sure to get the latest update since they just patched it also.
Very interesting. Will def try that. Thanks.
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MediumPimpin
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/19 17:59:38
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Beepster
No, dude. Find out if your synth can accept and output multiple tracks/sounds first. Most can to a certain extent. You may be able to get the number of synths down significantly.
Like 4 ins/outs on the synth = 4 tracks covered = 5 instances of the synth in the project (as opposed to 20)
Also you need to ask yourself do you REALLY need each violin completely isolated? You may be able to input your separate MIDI performances and output the "summed" via a single stereo out on the synth (or whatever output routing is available).
So definitely take a look at what your synth can do then figure out the routing in Sonar.
Otherwise, yeah... "Freeze 20 instances" will work but that's kind of the "swatting a fly with a Buick" scenario and likely not necessary.... especially for a synth designed for orchestral work.
I am not familiar with that program though so maybe others can elaborate.
Cheers.
Sorry, from your first post i understand this option is not common. But apparently it is. It still sounds pretty complicated to me but i think i understand what you're saying. Thanks.
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Beepster
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/19 18:12:27
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Unfortunately, yeah it can get complicated. Softsynths/VSTi's all have their own internal routing/mixing schemes so check out the manual or any tutorials you can find (youtube is a good place to scope stuff out just to get an idea).
It's all about figuring out what the synth can do then using Sonar to take advantage of it's features (or working around it's limitations... which would include doing things like using multiple instances of the synth).
Brain bending stuff that I've only really just recently wrapped my head around.
Good luck.
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slartabartfast
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/20 01:57:31
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Maybe we have come to expect too much from technology. No one expects one violinist to play 15 different violin parts simultaneously. Samples of 15 violins playing the same note or chord, or a chorusing effect to slightly detune and duplicate one voice are not hard to implement, but if you want full control over each part played by each voice, then using an individul track and instrument instance are a pretty reasonable solution.
post edited by slartabartfast - 2015/11/20 02:08:57
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MarioD
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/20 13:41:47
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If your system resources are not up to par when loading a VSTi a few times another option is to load the VSTi, record your violin part, bounce said part to a wav, mute-archive and hide that MIDI track then repeat the process until you get what you want. When my old computer couldn't handle a few cpu intensive VSTis any more and that is what I had to do until I saved my money for a new computer. A PITA for sure but this process does work.
If you are using the same violin sound be sure to either add a little chorus, slightly detune it or both. But it is better to use a few different violin sound sources.
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Kylotan
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/21 08:14:23
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Hollywood Orchestra contains instruments that are already ensembles of multiple violins. It includes patches for the whole 1st Violins and 2nd Violins sections. You don't need 1 track per violin. Just pick the relevant patch, and use it with 1 MIDI track, or 2 if you need separate 1st/2nd sections.
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Wookiee
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/21 09:12:54
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The manual is an interesting read even though i do not own it. It is obvious that you can have a number of separate outputs for Audio (the example the give is even SONAR) and then within any patch you can assign different midi channels to those voices for which you can add more midi tracks assigned to those midi channels.
Page 120 in the diamond manual for assigning audio outputs
Page 60'ish for assigning midi channels.
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DRanck
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Re: How to create 20 midi tracks with 1 plugin without killing my computer?
2015/11/22 13:07:27
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Nick Phoenix has some good tutorial videos on the EW site for HO. And you really need to read the manual for HO. It is powerful and complex. As already stated there are sectional patches included. I'm curious as to why you need 15 violin tracks unless you need to load multiple articulations? I have a short article on how my template for HO is set up on my website. Here's a link. Maybe that will be helpful.
post edited by DRanck - 2015/11/22 13:26:47
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