How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>?

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ChuckC
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2010/02/17 16:20:20 (permalink)

How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>?

  I remember being in studios & seing the engineer clone a guitar track then shift one of them forward just slightly to fatten the sound up, It worked well. (Though I think the platform was protools) Last night I tried to do the same on my old system  (currently running producer 6, I have a brand new daw with 8.5 studio ordered & waiting anxoiusly for it).  I tried to grab & drag the track to offset it a bit & I have the little dots that seem to be related to a metronome feature that I am not using & the track jumps from one dot to the next.  It won't let me place it in bettween?
 
What am I doing wrong here..?  Is there another way to go about it?

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/17 16:59:16 (permalink)
    you can move a track wave form with this method.


    I like to create clips by removing the silence between licks with clip/clip/delete. That gives me some smaller clips... but this does work with any sized clip.

    Right click it, and look for the track properties...click it...in there, you are able to set a new start time... so just move one about 10 clicks earlier, and the other 10 clicks later. You can place any clip precisely using this method.

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    #2
    batsbrew
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/17 17:32:10 (permalink)
    fat guitar tracks...

    start at the fingers.
    then, the guitar, and then the amp.

    it has to happen BEFORE the sound hits the mic.


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    jimmyrage
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/17 17:50:17 (permalink)
    Turn off snap to grid. Then drag it where you want it.  You could also click on the  time, move it up a few miliseconds then import the cloned track.
    #4
    ChuckC
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/17 17:54:29 (permalink)
    Batsbrew,  I hear ya but that isn't it in this case.
    I've been playing for some 20 yrs, Playing a carvin Tl-60 custom guitar through a Mesa Boogie 3 chan dual Rectifier half stack.
    My live sound is fat enough to blow yer hat off.  Granted I need to play around with different mics some but the signal isn't bad or weak.
    I am just looking to make it a little bigger that's all.

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
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    #5
    jimmyman
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/17 18:04:11 (permalink)

      The term "fattening" has become (most often)
    "cloning". Then things get shifted in time. Then we
    say something is "fat" through time delay?

      If the language of engineering music is turned
    into vague adjectives then how can any absolute
    be a factor?

      Try and describe what fat is.

       A sound/mix may be rich, warm, lush for example
    and in some cases these "adjectives" are useful
    but no one can say that "fat" is the result of
    cloning or anything for that matter.

      However there may be some truth to the fact:
    "it aint over till the fat lady sings"

      
    #6
    mcourter
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/17 18:17:35 (permalink)
    Right click the clip or track.  Above, click Process>nudge and indicate the ms you want to nudge it either left or right. I won't argue whether or not it will fatten your sound, but I think that's what you're looking for.

    A few guitars, a couple of basses, a MIDI controller, a mandolin, a banjo, a mic, PodFarm2
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    batsbrew
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/17 18:29:03 (permalink)
    ChuckC
    gotcha.

    so, you're well into the mic placement/room sound/correct mic choice part of the equation..

    it's very hard to mic yourself and engineer yourself...
    without having an honest isolation room or control room, to get away from the rig....
    to really HEAR what the mic is hearing.

    i'd bet your problem is simply mic positioning.

    some pros, make that THEIR thing...

    a lot of experimenting with positioning is required.

    then, you have to decide whether or not to use room mics, and how much of it to use, and where to put it in the stereo field.

    i don't like studio tricks, like cloning and offsets and whatnot.

    the best fat tracks that i've heard, that i liked, where done the old fashioned way....

    double tracked, by playing each track exactly the same.
    dead on performances.

    i think, any more than two takes per part, makes it mushy.
    but two done together, dead on, with a good rig and good micing, is gonna work.


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    Wood67
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/17 18:47:07 (permalink)
    +1 to what batsbrew said... "mic sound" and "double tracked".

    I was fortunate to spend several years with a producer who is recognised for achieving great guitar sounds.  This was mainly  heavy rock/metal, but I bet the principles are the same.

    We'd set the amp up and surround it with 8ft high baffles in a V shape with the amp at the apex.  That focused and then projected the sound.  Then we'd close mic at a slight angle just off centre from the speaker cone (playing about for a while to get it right).  Set up a U-47 in the centre about 10ft back and then maybe a couple of 87s for ambience if needed.  Mix to either a mono track or mono plus the ambience.

    That whole thing would then be double tracked, and then panned hard L/R.  During mix we'd also often use an AMS delay, very short with a touch of detune.

    I never really liked the idea of a 'clone' track, even with offsetting and detuning.  The best results always came with a good sound at the start, followed by tracking.



    Wood

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    #9
    ChuckC
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/17 20:48:53 (permalink)
    Ok I conceed that I am going about it wrong here.   Let me explain.  I have only dabbled in DIY computer recording & never had an interface before.  I was (& still am til the new daw gets here) recording to a Tascam 8 track then dumping the wave files into comp to fool around with mixing. I only had 8 tracks to work with. I've never even had monitors before this afternoon!   This is the 1st time & I am just now getting serious about self recording so I'll be on here a good bit I am sure. 
      :off topic:  I am a member of a few forums for lawn care/landscape pros as I own a lawn care/landscape design-install company.  I suppose I jump the newbies and set them straight on there when they explain how they're doing something the Hard, dumb, or half-assed way...  
      So I appreciate you guys doing the same for me here.
    Once I get the new Daw & a direct interface I will just double track it & play around with mic positions more  maybe run several mics on 1 take at 1st (recording to different tracks) to see where I am getting good sounds & where not to ever put a mic again

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/17 20:49:30 (permalink)
    batsbrew


    fat guitar tracks...

    start at the fingers.
    then, the guitar, and then the amp.

    it has to happen BEFORE the sound hits the mic.


    Absolutely!  All the fancy studio techniques are trying to accomplish what is lacking from the source.

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    #11
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/18 04:43:56 (permalink)
    Personally, I always opt for recording the thing twice [or more] than cloning/shifting/nudging.

    You get little variations in tuning/timing/phrasing that is extremely difficult if not impossible to achieve by any sort of artificial means.

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    jimmyrage
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/18 07:06:39 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey


    Personally, I always opt for recording the thing twice [or more] than cloning/shifting/nudging.

    You get little variations in tuning/timing/phrasing that is extremely difficult if not impossible to achieve by any sort of artificial means.


    Thats my usual method. Also been expermenting with soundstage lately  for ambient effx.
    #13
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/18 09:09:31 (permalink)
    13-56's




    #14
    bayoubill
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/18 10:38:23 (permalink)
    I think the best way to get a fatter sound is to double track as said. It also opens the door to strategically place subtle harmonies. Experimentation is a non-ending process that can lead to many discoveries. Don't forget that posting your songs to get advice can help the others at the forum get a handle on what you're doing and how to help. Good luck and HAVE FUN!

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    #15
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/18 11:33:40 (permalink)
    mike_mccue


    13-56's


    Painful... but Nashville cats swear by them for acoustic.

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    #16
    batsbrew
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/18 11:35:07 (permalink)
    A. Holdsworth uses .008 gauge strings, and has one of the fattest guitar sounds in this side of the universe.

    so, bigger strings, is simply not required.

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/18 21:44:54 (permalink)
    That may be true.... but is also a fact that for any given magnetic flux *pickup* system... the fatter string will get more electrons moving.

    FWIW I grew up playing 13-56s on a Tele. :-)


    best,
    mike



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    MIDIMINDS
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/19 02:08:59 (permalink)
    Another vote for good ol' fashioned double tracking.

    This is where Audiosnap is your friend.  If you get a take 98% correct, just cut a clip near the error and use Audiosnap to align the notes.  (This is also one of the many reasons I'm hope 8.5.3 will address some of the Audiosnap shortfalls.)

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/19 04:11:10 (permalink)
    mike_mccue


    13-56's


    I wouldn't have any fingertips left!!!!!

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/19 05:49:32 (permalink)
    I don't! :-)


    #21
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:How to fatten up guitar tracks>>>? 2010/02/19 05:58:21 (permalink)
    Hey - it's old 'bone-fretter' Mike!



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