How to get Bass Fret Click sound ala Steve Harris Iron Maiden??

So I've searched thru as many Bass libraries as I can and although there are a lot of Slap Bass sounds, there just doesn't seem to be anything like a simple fret click. This is the sound made by playing the strings hard with fingers and slapping the string down against the fret instead of sort of 'picking' or strumming.
 
Don't know if this makes any sense. Any ideas on how to produce this? I have Dimension and Rapture, plus Kontakt 4 and SampleTank, PPG wave 3.v...
 
This sound, as used by Steve Harris, is excellent for bringing definition to the rhythm the bass is playing - really cuts through any low end mud

I am assuming you are talking about a hammer-on?
 
I tried to google "waveform of a hammer-on" and could not find anything. A hammer-on is created by rapidly fretting a string to the fret of choice and is initially loaded with louder overtones similar to picking a string as close as you can to the bridge (node). This will give the note a "higher sting" due to those overtones, but I am not sure how to best map this attack on a synth. It is a very rapid attack, but the overtone spread I am not clear on (they would be initially loud with a fairly fast decay as well).

I will try the Zeta thing thank you. I keep forgetting that synth. I have X3
 
no it's not a hammer on. its more of an artifact? what happens is that instead of plucking the string you slap the string against the fretboard as you play the note. really helps when playing 16ths etc
 
thanks

Yeah, I know the sound he's looking for. That patch should get him close. There really doesn't seem to be many straight ahead electric bass sounds in the oodles of banks that come with Sonar. I just happened upon the Alembic one by mistake/novelty. I was trying out the totally weird arsed Zeta stuff and saw Alembic and immediately though "BAPU!! LULZ!1" but it has turned into my go to bass sound because when used right it sounds completely real. The attack is supposed to be the pick strike but it's the closest thing I've heard to the attack OP is referring to. As I said with the Zeta controls and the TS it could be shaped to get that crisp click before more rounded finger pluck of a clean electric bass.
 
Worth a shot anyway. There are also some third party synths that might be better like that Rickenbacker thingie that was getting talked about a while back. I think it's by IK and it looked like it had a whole bunch of different styles like finger, pick, popped. The actual tone of the bass might be a little different than Harris' though but it was a very cool sounding synth.

Much as I loathe the sound Steve Harris gets (and yet I'm a big 'Maiden fan)...I'd suggest:
 
- You only seem to get this effect with Fender basses, so find a bass sound that's based (pun unintended) around a P-bass sample
 
- Try a compressor afterwards with fairly slow attack to let any attack through, and EQ around (from very old memory) 2-4KHz
 
- If this doesn't work, you could do something complex like freeze the synth, use Melodyne to get the start of the notes and their pitch (drag the audio clip to a MIDI track) and add a second synth with a "click" sound at the start of each note, short duration, probably time-shifted a few samples earlier than the note start
 
I found this "effect" from a P-bass very hard to work with in a mix as it clashes with other instruments.

And another thing you could try is running whatever you decide on through TH2, GR5 or another guitar sim to get more crispness/gain. That could draw the attack out as well and give you more options to get a P-bass + gainy bass head sound.
 
I actually kind of like GR5 for bass a little better than TH2. Which reminds me... there is also the trick of triple cloning your bass track and having a clean sound, a sub bass sound and a fuzz sound then blending them all together. Works great.
 
With this method you could use the clean or probably more preferably the fuzz sound to EQ in more of the attack which could mimic the clicking.
 
To take that even further you could use the VS-64 Multiband Compressor (or whatever it is called) to block out all frequencies except the attack so that way you have a track dedicated just to the clicks. In theory (because I am kind of pulling this one out of my arse) the compressor itself can get the attack sounding a little sharper.
 
Basically you need a realistic clean electric bass sound with a bit of click on the attack. From there you hone in on that attack and manipulate with whatever tools you have to get it to stand out the way you want. Tons of options for this.
 
aaaaand one more thing to toss into the mix is the Saturation Knob. If you set it to Keep Low (which leaves the low end untouched but adds saturation to the high end) it should make the click more pronounced as well.
 
These are all just things to try. Some of it may not work at all but if I was attempting something like this these are the things I would play with. I'm about to fire up the DAW so I'll check on the Alembic path for you. Cheers.

i skipped X1. i go back to cakewalk 1, skipped a few like 4, 6 , 7 idk. I have sonar 8.5.3 and x2 and now x3. But i don't see z3ta 2 on my hard drive??
 
thanks KPerry. I'm curious why or what you do like about his sound. I saw Maiden on their first tour at Long Beach Arena in 1981 and was blown away by their tightness and sound. I've been hooked since, although their latest studio album seemed kinda pieced together in spots, a bit chaotic?? For me 'Somewhere in Time' and 'Live After Death' are their best.  I'm also a big Geddy Lee fan! The thing about Steve Harris' "clicks" that I like is the way it interacts with the drums while at same time punching up the low end under the guitars. I don't know if that makes sense. For me describing music is like talking about colors  

Okay, I just looked at my X2 startup menu folder and Zeta isn't in there but in my X1 startup folder  Zeta + 2 is. I'm not sure if that means I got Zeta + 2 with the Production Suite or whether it was indeed included with X2. You should have at least one version of Zeta though. Which version IDK. If it is the older Zeta I just looked through all the patches and didn't see the Alembic patch in any of them and due to the path in Zeta + 2 I'm assuming it came with that synth.
 
So if you DO happen to have Zeta + 2 the path is: Factory Content > Bass 1 > Picked Alembic BT.
 
Sorry if I sent you on a wild goose chase. I could have sworn they had tossed the fancier Zeta in with X2. They did SOMETHING to update/upgrade it though. Just not sure what.
 
Cheers.

Bristol_Jonesey
Yeah I was thinking about velocity as well. Ramp it up where you want.
 
I've got Z3ta+2 and I'm sure I didn't pay for it, so it was included at some point, unless my fading memory is fading even further.

Well maybe we are both going insane. ;-p
 
As far as velocity check out that patch if you get a chance and you'll see what I mean as far as the attacks getting much more pronounced at higher velocities. Like if I hit my keys more softly the attack is greatly reduce but in the upper 10-15% on the aggression scale (a scale I just made up... lol) the attack increases sharply while the tone itself follows a seemingly more subdued velocity curve. Kind of like what would happen on a real bass.
 
It's a little weird though because although most of the time it sound perfectly natural I find that if I play a certain way somehow it all of a sudden sounds unnatural. Hard to explain but it's like if I play awkwardly or don't treat it exactly like a bass it gets that very noticeable MIDI quality to it. I'm not sure if this would happen with quick/complicated runs.
 
One cool thing I did with this patch was I wrote a bass line that used this in conjunction with one of the buzzier, more robotic bass sounds sounding simultaneously. Best of both worlds. Real bass and synth bass working together. Once I cranked on some heavily distorted crunch rhythm it was brutal sounding. Very modern sounding but still metal.

From a synthesis point of view, you might be able to do simulate like this with FM (frequency modulation). When I build analog brass patches on my Kronos, I always have a switch that turns on FM @ 24 steps, which adds quite a bit of high end bite to the attack. You could add 2 additional oscillators to the patch referenced above (maybe a pair of detuned saws) with short decays and apply FM between them.
 
I don't remember if Z3ta (either 1 or 2) has the ability to FM 2 oscillators against each other, but it might be worth a shot. You just have to make sure that the ratio is at a step which creates a modulated pitch which is the same note - otherwise it'll create a really nasty distorted harmonic. Actually, if you modulate it on the 4th or 5th, there might be enough metallic grit added to the sound to give you what you want - it's then just a matter of controlling the shape of it with an envelope.
 
If I get a chance, I'll play with Z3ta tonight (I've only been using Z3ta2 recently) to see if I can approximate that sort of sound.

On a real bass, I would probably try cloning the track.  Then putting some extreme compression on it and play with EQ until it exaggerates that sound.  I would then volume envelope the areas that I want to hear the effect and raise the levels of that cloned track until it is just barely heard in the mix.  

MakeShift
On a real bass, I would probably try cloning the track.  Then putting some extreme compression on it and play with EQ until it exaggerates that sound.  I would then volume envelope the areas that I want to hear the effect and raise the levels of that cloned track until it is just barely heard in the mix.  

You should try out that multiband compressor trick. Mr Anderton showed that one in one of the X1 Advanced Workshop vids for guitar and it's really cool. I'm thinking it would work even better for bass because you can work on 4 (or 5?) different parts of the signal independently.
 
I intend to use it a lot now that I am aware of it. Unfortunately it means having that power hog of a plug on multiple tracks but it could be frozen once the bands have been isolated.

Beepster

Atsuko
I have Sonar X1, X2 and X3 Producer and had to purchase the upgrade to Z3TA+2... 

hmm... All the weird juggling with the synth versions they've done over the past few years sure is confusing. I ain't complaining because I think I have all the really good ones at full capacity (I think).
 
If this is the case though it makes me feel a little better about springing for the Production Suite. I thought I had basically burned myself for a hundred bucks because of all the extras they bundled with X2.

Indeed you are correct. The Zeta 2 synth came included in the Production suite along with the pro channel gate. It was the Zeta-2 that made me go with that upgrade path.

I like the Scarbee Jay Bass samples.  They have a real nice slap with some fret sound.  Not sure if it is what you are looking for, but they have several basses in the Scarbee line.  Each has many articulations available.  IMHO the sampled sounds still beat the synths.
 
http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/guitar/scarbee-jay-bass/
 
 

Ill ask him when i see him