How to get bass "punch"?

I'd like to get some added bass punch in a song using standard tools in X1 (I've also got Ozone). The song is strummed acoustic guitar and vocals, and the bass is a simple line using the TTS Acoustic Bs patch. On it's own, the bass sounds great, but in the mix it's muddy and indistinct. I've fiddled with compression and EQ a little bit but didn't seem to be making progress. This is not an area I've explored before.

Can anyone point me to some of the standard ways to get bass punch? (I'm not even sure that's the right term - I'm looking for clarity without muddiness).

Cheers, Peter.

This is a good way to get that attack on your bass.

Here is a tip from Mick Guzauski..Famous engineer....he says..(quote from the great book: 'Mix Masters' by Maureen Drony....

".....the bass is in such a low register that there's no attack with it, but it works musically. That's where I'm careful setting the attack time on the compressor. I'll listen to the bass track and check the attack of each note. Then, if if you slow the attack time of the compressor and compress the track a little, the compressor will actually add some attack because the attack transient of the bass is getting through before the compressor reduces the gain on it. That's a trick I use a lot......"

Add a precisely timed AND tuned kick beat at the beginning of each bass note.

Pete,
Before you go drilling into the emmense power of X1 and all the plugin's, take a look at the basic concept of what you want.  You jump into the additive fray, you'll push the overall amplitude thru the roof.  This is a short analogy I use to use when I taught at Berklee.  Stupid, yes, will you forget it...no.
 
You got two really fat guys walking around the block.  They 'round the corner and see a house ablaze.  They pick up the pace and run toward the house, which by now has flames shooting out all the windows.  Now, these two fat guys, each one is huge, a giant each one.  Each one just as capable as the other.  They stop for a second to figure out their next move.  They glance around, see a phone booth (I know, there's cell phones, but just pretend) on the corner and run for it.  They both reach the booth at the same time and try to get in to call the FD.  (see where this is going yet?)  They try two or three times to bust thru that door, to both get to the phone to call help.  Vital...yes.  Do-able, not so much.  So they look at each other and one dude say's "hey, I've got some coin, I can make the call".  The other dude says, "My fat old dad use to be a fireman, I got an idea how I can help back at the house".  So one gets into the booth, which can hold one no problem and the other goes to work the fire.  Moral:  What...you thought this was going to be a metaphysical journey?  Each one has a purpose which each can handle concurrently. 
 
Your available frequency for your bass and kick is roughly the same.  It's like that phone booth.  Listen to recordings of different styles, and you'll see the two being given a seperate tasks and switching bassed on the production.  One handles the low, fat end, the other, still being fat, needs to occupy a bit different space.  Engineers call this "pocketing". 
 
Start with "making room" in the bass phonebooth for one or the other, based on style.  Then have the other one work around that.  In funk, usually the bass player is all over the instrument and using a lot higher frequency, so make the kick drive your rounder low-end.  In country, a lot of times the bass is the "bass" and the kick is the "kick".  The bass occupies the 50-135hZ with it's fundamental pitch, and the kick adds the punch from around 90 up to 250.  Don't hold me to these numbers, it's just an example...like our two fat dudes.  Pocket first, then start hitting it with the power of Sonar!  With not much work, the kick will add the kick and the bass will add the bass...(or the other)...together they'll get the job done.

Hi Pete,

The Acoustic Bass in TTS-1 is my favorite bass sample of that kind.

If you increase the velocity of the notes it drastically changes the sound. You can go from real low almost boomy (think of Stand By Me) to sharp and clear.

Hope this helps.

Bub.

To the OP. I'd invest in a good mixing book. I bought "Mixing Audio" by Roey Izhaki link - HERE

I'm not connected to the book in anyway just highly recommend it. You'll learn all about masking as well as loads more, and more importantly how to deal with it with the use of EQ and compression.

It may seem overkill to just answer the one question but it will be there next time you have a similar mixing question. In fact after a couple of reads you won't be asking the question 'cos you'll already know the answer.

Well worth the money IMHO.

waves max bass works for me

So this is a little complicated, but I'll try to share some technique that I use (and am still trying to perfect). I am in no way an expert on this topic, but here it goes.

As Admagination, different music = different mixing requirements / technique. But here is a starting place. I start by making the kick have a lot of upper crack presence of the beater, so even if you're not feeling the thud, you're hearing that the drum is there. 

If you compress the kick drum so with a longer attack, it will allow the initial transient to come through and then start squashing the beefy bass. If you get the timing right on the attack and release (as well as the other settings), you can get a powerful initial transient with a beefy, but lower body. This'll get the kick vibin' and thuddy. You'll probably have to use a second compressor / limiter to stop the kick from peaking where you don't want it. 

Anyway, we now have a beefy punchy kick (obviously you still have to EQ it and bring out the right tones, but the compressor is the most complicated part of the magic).

What I've found to be an nice tactic to control the bass guitar, is to get it nice an warm and fat, but then put a compressor on it, with the sidechain of the kick drum. With the right settings, this can make the kick drum cause the bass guitar to "duck" out of the way when the kick hits. You'll probably need a very fast attack and a release that is fast enough to let go as soon as the kick is done or mostly done. 

This way you have 2 fat and beefy instruments, but the kick is kinda slapping the bass out of the way, taking the forefront. 

Just a thought. This is in no way a simple technique, but as I get use to it more, it seems to be working fairly well. 

And now everyone can tell me I'm crazy ;)

FastBikerBoy


To the OP. I'd invest in a good mixing book. I bought "Mixing Audio" by Roey Izhaki link - HERE 

I second this recommendation.  Excellent book.

Try a transient modifier on the bass to hop up the attack.