How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings?

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ASG
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2012/01/02 04:59:35 (permalink)

How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings?

Im a pretty good guitar player but my recordings always come out poorly. I dont exactly have good quality gear, i record with an old cheap acoustic guitar and use the default pre's in my interface. Where should i invest money first, pre's mics or the guitar? If you play guitar and are satisfied with how yours come out, would you mind leaving a sample for me to listen to, and any knowledge about picking gear?
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    Danny Danzi
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/02 06:32:32 (permalink)
    Hi ASG,

    This is a tough animal which will always be subjective. I'll give you my thoughts for what it's worth and you can go from there. In my opinion, the most important thing with acoustic guitars is the guitar itself as well as the performance and execution of the player. You should be able to make just about any mic work on the guitar in that situation. If you have an acoustic guitar with a pick-up and you are trying to record it direct...this is usually an issue. Most of them don't sound very good unless they have some sort of sophisticated pup installed or a piezo deal going on. What you should do is mic the acoustic as well as record the DI signal. This makes for a nice blend.

    If you like the sound of your old cheap guitar it's a matter of finding the right mic and the right mic placement really. And...here's the kicker...sometimes you can get the coolest sound of all time yet you may struggle in a mix. Most times the acoustic sounds we love will need to be scaled back when you mix it in with other instruments or thinned out so to speak. It all depends what other instruments you're working with. Also...sometimes really good guitars don't make the cut either. LOL!! I remember this one song I recorded on my last album....we must have went through 30 different acoustics. We had a music store right next to the studio I was recording at. So we could just walk in and grab whatever we wanted. I tried everything...nothing was giving me what I wanted.

    On my way out for a smoke, my drummer was playing the song we were going to be recording on this old, beat up Washburn. It stopped me in my tracks and listened and said "dude, get in the room and let me hear what that thing sounds like!" We mic'd it up using an AKG X/Y pattern and it sounded beatiful so we went with it. I'll let you hear the song so you can hear it. The acoustic you hear all through the song is that beat up Washburn.

    There is an acoustic guitar solo in the song. I used an Ovataion Custom Legend I have for that which was a nice change...and then there is a finger picking part right after where I use the Ovation again at 3:33. That's mic'd where the neck meets the body at the 12th fret using...oh man....I can't remember what the heck I used. It was either a Royer or an Equitek CAD mic...one of those. But anyway...you'll get the idea. I wrote the song about the World Trade Center tragedy and kept it to myself for 4 years after. It's called "What About Us". Hope you like it. Best of luck.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/What%20About%20Us.mp3

    -Danny
    post edited by Danny Danzi - 2012/01/02 06:36:10

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    wst3
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/02 10:03:32 (permalink)
    I could write a book... except for the part where I'm too lazy!
     
    The guitar track starts with a great guitar part, and a great performance, but you asked about the technical issues, so we'll skip those.
     
    Next up is the instrument - not only does it have to sound good, but it has to be set up well, and in tune. Fresh strings may, or may not be required, some of my guitars sound better with brand new strings, some sound better when the strings have been played for a few days. If you are using a fresh set make sure you have them stretched so that they stay in tune.
     
    The room you are recording is almost as important as the guitar. Almost, because you can usually work around quirks of the room through careful placement of the guitar and microphone.
     
    Microphone selection and placement is important too. If you don't have an array of microphones to select from then it comes down to placement. And both selection and placement depend on... you guessed it, the guitar and the room.
     
    I find preamplifier selection to be the least important part of the puzzle, but you can't use jumk, it has to be at least decent. You can use preamplifier selection - if you have more than one - to help shape the recorded sound. Some may argue that the most neutral recording is the best, and I guess that makes sense, but there is also some value in knowing what you want and committing early. (that's fodder for an entirely different thread!)
     
    If I were in your shoes I'd rent time at a well equipped studio with an engineer that gets guitar sounds you like... and I'd spend a couple hours auditioning different microphones. I think you'll learn a lot!
     
    I don't know that there is a lot of value to my suggestions, but since you asked I'll tell you how I record my guitars:
     
    In my current basement studio I can't get away with omni-directional microphones, the room just doesn't sound that good. So I use cardiod microphones, and place them fairly clsoe to the guitar so that I don't pick up a lot of room tone. If the room sounds great I use omni-directional microphones and add some distance.
     
    I almost always use a pair of microphones, not so much for stereo, but to provide a couple different perspectives, which I mix to taste later. Usually I'll use a (relatively) neutral large capsule condensor placed above the guitar (ear level), sometimes over my shoulder, sometimes a foot or so in front of me. I also use a small capsule condensor microphone, selected for it's particular sound, and placed anywhere between six and eighteen inches from the guitar, pointed anywhere but at the sound hole itself. Some guitars sound better with that microphone pointed at the neck/body junction, some like a spot closer to the bridge. Every guitar, and every song is different.
     
    Microphones I use often for my guitars include:
    large capsule - a Neuman TLM-193, Shure KSM-32 or (rarely) AKG C-414
    small capsule - an AKG C451, Earthworks SR77, Blue Dragonfly, or Teac PE-120 (modified for phantom power.)
     
    Hope this helps.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/02 10:58:39 (permalink)
    Having good gear is always a good place to start. 

    In my opinion, that means a good sounding acoustic guitar and a nice condensor mic. 

    I don't worry with the stereo mic setup that many producers like to use. I have one decent mic ( Rode NT-2A) so I use it.

    I have experimented with distances ranging from 6" to 2' from the sound hole.... straight out front, overhead close to my ears, up the neck, at an angle to the sound hole..... and they all have their good points and lesser attributes as well. 

    This song>>> 

    http://www.soundclick.com...34&songID=11196884  

    Footsteps In The Hall ..... was recorded with my Taylor and Rode. IIRC  the mic was out front for the strumming and in close at 6" or so on the picking.  

    The first thing I would get would be a good condensor mic. Check www.gauge-usa.com for some inexpensive options.  Depending on the interface, if it has nice pre's built in, you can use them for quite some time before feeling the need to buy a standalone pre. I would buy a standalone pre only after I had a really nice mic and possibly a really nice guitar. 

    Learning how to mic an acoustic....some say is an art unto itself. I think the guitar is less a factor, than the mic or the proper positioning of the mic. Look at the ragged old acoustic Willie Nelson uses and it sounds good.

    Right now, I'm basically just getting a good start in recording acoustic... for the same reasons you listed. So far I'm liking the results, but I know there's more to learn. 


    EQ applied to the track is also important. I set up a few custom presets for the Taylor mostly to remove the lower end. 
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2012/01/02 11:00:18

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    offnote
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/02 11:01:00 (permalink)
    I think very good mike is essential, I have rode NT1-A and it records perfectly voice and acoustic guitars.
    Check video on their website, you can see the placement and other tips.
    http://www.rodemic.com/mics/nt1-a
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    gcolbert
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/02 11:04:23 (permalink)
    The first sound improvement that I impressed myself with was moving four feet further away from a highly reflective wall.  You might want to think about the room you are recording in before worying about which mike and pre to use.  Also - I have yet to be impressed by the sound from a built-in pickup (and I do have some good ones) over what I get from a microphone.
     
    Glen
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    NW Smith
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/02 11:14:24 (permalink)
    +1 about the room. A treated room is your best start. If you don't have a treated room - you should experiment with different locations throughout the room to see where you get the best sound.

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    timidi
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/02 11:20:27 (permalink)
    might want to turn off the air conditioner.

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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/02 13:25:57 (permalink)
    Probably best done in steps;

    The first thing is you and the guitar-
    Do you like the way you sound? If yes then it's all about capturing it.
    If no then you need to find an acoustic guitar that will give you the sound you're after.

    I know you said "old, cheap guitar" but that doesn't mean it doesn't sound good...and
    that is what you didn't mention.
    So to answer your question...If you don't have the sound playing...recording gear isn't going to fix that....get a guitar first.
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    ASG
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/02 14:10:22 (permalink)
         Thanks for responses. Danie and Hacker both your samples sound very nice! I currently have 2 of my dads old guitars, one is a harmony guitar and one is acoustic. I dont know what brands, theyre seriously old. The acoustic gives me that deep, full sound im looking for but the action is complete crap and no matter what strings i put on they fight with my fingers and its simply unplayable to me. the harmony guitar plays nice and clear, but the sound is too thin for me. So i know ive got to get a new acoustic. but i also need a new mic and preamp, im on a budget so i was wondering which i should invest in first... the room is big and has a ceiling of 10 or 11 ft so im sure i can work something out in there. I feel also that my skills are more than enough to get the job done (if i could export audio id leave you a little sample of a song im working on). I always here people talking about the Nt1a and Nt2a, i know im gonna get one i just dont know what the difference is. Im also trying to decide between the at4040 and something like the shure ksm44.  Where im totally in the dark however, is which preamps to get.
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/02 14:19:57 (permalink)
    On mics.... I bought my NT-2A at Sam Ash.  About 5 months later, I found myself in LA at a songwriter's convention. 

    One of the sponsors was Gauge Microphones. they had a booth set up where they had their mics side by side with the very expensive studio mics everyone tends to drool over. 

    the mics were plugging in and you could A/B back and forth between them and they were plugged into headphones so you could hear the differences in the mics.

    I was kinda regretting the NT-2A purchase at that moment. If I had it to do over, I'd have gotten the Gauge but my wife gets kinda ticked when I buy lots of gear..... "How many of those things do you actually need?" Not being a musician, she doesn't understand..... but I could ask her the same question about shoes, or purses, or clothes, or......   

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    offnote
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/02 17:35:34 (permalink)

    shure ksm44
    ASG


           I always here people talking about the Nt1a and Nt2a, i know im gonna get one i just dont know what the difference is. Im also trying to decide between the at4040 and something like the shure ksm44.  Where im totally in the dark however, is which preamps to get.



    I had a option to compare few ~1000$ mikes with rodes NT and I didn't hear that much of the difference if at all, that's why for amateur use I wouldn't spend that much for ksm44.




    post edited by offnote - 2012/01/03 06:39:23
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/02 17:57:30 (permalink)
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2012/01/05 06:17:36

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    aricajwalker
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/03 01:22:42 (permalink)
    There's a Christian Gospel type of artist that has an album of mostly/all acoustic stuff. Her name is Terri Lynn Weaver, and the album I'm talking about has phenomenal recording quality, IMO. The mandolins sound really good and the Martins sound great. Overall, it has great sound quality and is on the top of my list for speaker testing material.
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    batsbrew
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/03 11:17:10 (permalink)
    I had a option to compare few ~1000$ mikes with rodes NT and I didn't hear that much of the difference if at all, that's why for amateur use I wouldn't spend that much for ksm44.  



    i've used many mics in this category, and the rodents, and the KSM44 just kicked all butt.


    it's worth that price range, over just about any mic i've tried in the same range.




    for amateur use, there's nothing wrong with a good ole SM57.
    and they sell them as cheap as $74 new.


    i would record an entire album, using nothing but a sm57, and it would rock.



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    offnote
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/03 11:32:32 (permalink)
    batsbrew

     i would record an entire album, using nothing but a sm57, and it would rock.

    well, but will it roll???






    p.s.
    I would not use any mike below 150$. Other that rodes I can recomend also AKG mikes e.g Perception 220, little bit less expensive but still do both: rock and roll, sometimes even jazz and swing 
    post edited by offnote - 2012/01/03 11:33:34
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    mattplaysguitar
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/06 03:52:27 (permalink)
     - Good guitar
     - Brand new strings (appropriately worn in)
     - Acoustically treated space (or an amazing sounding room)
     - Suitable mic (for acoustic I would ONLY ever go condenser mics [unless for some unusual reason] and you can get a great sound with a cheap mic, but a really nice one does wonders - I use Rode K2 in X-Y stereo configuration and it just sounds amazing. Used to use a Behringer B1 mic which was super cheap, sounded great, but compared to the very $$ tube Rode mics, can't compare. You mostly hear the difference when you start to push the eq a little. The great mics are much more forgiving and let you play with the sound so much more. High end clarity is so much better)
     - Ideal mic placement (I typically aim around 12th fret for the harmonics there which I like. Anywhere can work, but usually just keep WELL AWAY from the sound hole as it's boomy)


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    bitflipper
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/06 16:01:42 (permalink)
    Check out the videos on Recording Magazine's site. They're beginner-level but very high quality.


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    BenMMusTech
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/06 23:29:42 (permalink)
    Ok I've been busy latley so I'm sorry that I am Johnny come lately here is my advice:

    Use a good condenser, the NT1a isn't bad, nor is it the best but it will do the job, point that at the 12th fret, then get an Sm58 and rip the pop shield off and point that at the sound hole.

    After recording combine the two in a buss, I think you will be amazed at the sound.  What you are hearing is THE GUITAR, ok I mean your getting the jangly sound of the acoustic and your getting the bass also of the acoustic.

    I'm sorry I don't have anything up on any of my music sites to demonstrate this sound and technique but trust me the last acoustic recording I did I used this technique and I was blown away because this is the sound I was alway's hunting for in terms of an recorded acoustic.  It will be my goto technique the next time I record an acoustic as well.

    Ben

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    michaelhanson
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    Re:How to get high quality acoustic guitar recordings? 2012/01/07 00:49:14 (permalink)
    I liked the video's Bit.  Good stuff, thanks for that link.

    Mike

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