How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s)

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JimmyBoy
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2013/12/31 20:18:11 (permalink)

How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s)

Hi All,
 
I've been ripping hair out over this, does anyone have any step by step guide on how to setup a Midi track to trigger Instrument track?
 
Let say for example I import a midi file into new project, (midi bass, and drum track) then setup Cakewalk TTS audio track to play each of the midi tracks - I want to do the same or similar with a Virtual Instrument, lets say setup the Cakewalk SI Bass Guitar, then select the Bass Guitar options in SI Bass Guitar and have the midi track trigger - I've tried so many different ways and still can't get this to work - or am I misunderstanding what virtual instruments are all about, will they only work using something like a synth keyboard?
 
Thanks in advance.
Jim

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#1

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    John
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    Re: How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s) 2013/12/31 20:44:12 (permalink)
    Don't use instrument tracks simply use a MIDI track or tracks to trigger a synth you have put in the synth rack. You do this from the Browser with the tab synths. Once a synth is loaded simply out the output of the MIDI track to that synth via the output at the bottom of the track inspector. 
     
    Nothing could be simpler. With an instrument track MIDI and audio are combined. 

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    #2
    slartabartfast
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    Re: How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s) 2013/12/31 20:55:39 (permalink)
    Pages 130-131 of the Sonar X3 Reference Guide under the heading:
    What if I already have a project that contains MIDI tracks?
     
    If that procedure does not work, it may be a problem with the file import, or with the imported midi notes being out of range or specifying a bank or patch that your synth cannot respond to etc. To test that write your own short midi track in the piano roll view and see if you can get that one to play.
    #3
    JimmyBoy
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    Re: How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s) 2014/01/01 05:31:42 (permalink)
    Thanks, though when I select an instrument from Cakewalk TTS synth, for example I have the bass midi output to channel 2 in TTS synth and it is by default set to "Fingered Bs." If I click on that TTS synth track 2 and right click and select and change it to "Preset/Bass/Attack Bass", its selected however when I then click PLAY it reverts back to "Fingered Bs." option...
     
    What the! What gives here?
     
    Why does it revert back to "Fingered Bs."?
     
    Do I need to set something in the Options in TTS so it is set permanently for this project?
     
    Kind regards
    Jim

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    Stone House Studios
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    Re: How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s) 2014/01/01 06:15:19 (permalink)
    Jim,
    If this is a midi file that you downloaded, it may have patch data in it, so it essentially re-assigns that patch when you push play - probably a GM soundset. I don't remember how to delete this, other than trying to save as a cakewalk project, not a midi file, and then make your changes and save.  You could also try moving only the note and controller data to a new track.
     
    Brian

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    #5
    Jay Tee 4303
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    Re: How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s) 2014/01/01 06:24:41 (permalink)
    Until you look at a MIDI event list, you may never realize how many different MIDI events there are besides note on and note off messages.
     
    There are other possible issues that may lead to rhe first pist in this thread, but I think now you are up against Patch Change or Control messages that don't show in the Track View or the Piano Roll.

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    #6
    JimmyBoy
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    Re: How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s) 2014/01/01 07:26:08 (permalink)
    Ok I think I've got it now with CW TTS... I even have midi track triggering programs in Z3TA+2...  Although some of the programs in Z3TA+2 will not work while others do.  I haven't gone back yet to test "SI Bass Guitar" VST yet to see if any of the Bass programs work with the midi track - I think this is what is tripping me up.

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    #7
    chuckebaby
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    Re: How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s) 2014/01/01 09:34:42 (permalink)
    this will show you the 3 primary ways midi is used in sonar
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juIu9Rlt6v8

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    Re: How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s) 2014/01/09 05:34:35 (permalink)
    Jay Tee 4303
    Until you look at a MIDI event list, you may never realize how many different MIDI events there are besides note on and note off messages.
     
    There are other possible issues that may lead to rhe first pist in this thread, but I think now you are up against Patch Change or Control messages that don't show in the Track View or the Piano Roll.




    Thanks Jay Tee, I had a look at the midi event list in the midi track and see a whole heap going on in it - thanks for the pointer...
     

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    And using the event manager
     

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    post edited by JimmyBoy - 2014/01/09 05:42:15

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    #9
    John
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    Re: How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s) 2014/01/09 09:32:35 (permalink)
    All you have to do is delete those patch changes with the delete key.

    Best
    John
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    JimmyBoy
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    Re: How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s) 2014/01/09 16:34:37 (permalink)
    Thanks john,
     
    TBH I couldn't figure out how to delete these events...
     
    Interestingly, even though I have removed all these events from the track - when I select a new bank, type and patch for example in Z3ta+2.1, then hit play it resets the type and patch back to the first of the set, the bank remains to what ever I set it to before I hit the play...
     
    It's no means clear to me why this is happening hence frustration begins to set in...
     
     

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    #11
    JimmyBoy
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    Re: How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s) 2014/01/10 17:06:00 (permalink)
    I get it now!  Not so sure if this is a bug or if this is by design - I'd appreciate if someone can confirm...  If this is by design then I think this is a huge limitation and poor a design
     
    If a midi track has some patch configured (you'll see it in the "event list" view if one exist in your midi track - for an example refer to my previous post above) you can delete these 2 lines simply by clicking in the midi record entry and hit the "DELETE" key for each of these record entries in the list. 
     
    Now that these patch changes are removed from the midi track, you would think from the midi softsynth plugin you should/could/can be used to assign a patch from its program bank... WRONG,... because once you stop and then hit play again it reverts back to patch 0 of the selected program bank.
     
    Here is where I think this is a bug, I would think naturally what ever you choose from the softsyth's plugin it should take effect, but it doesn't!!  I would have thought if I chose a patch from the programs plugin softsynth an entry in the "event list" of a patch change should be inserted as a record in the current position in the "event list", but it doesn't - so this is where this seems to pose a problem - is this by design or is it a bug??).
     
    What I've since discovered though, you can only configure, for the midi track in focus a patch from the console view "bank, patch" pulldown options. Note a patch change in the midi "event list" is again NOT inserted, this selection of the bank, patch will affect the whole track which sounds logical from the console view perspective.
     

     

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    #12
    JimmyBoy
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    Re: How to get midi track(s) to trigger Virtual Instrument track(s) 2014/01/13 16:29:57 (permalink)
    "I think" I have finally, FINALLY got it!
     
    Just need to sit back and breathe....
     
    If I want to insert midi changes etc in the "event list" there is a " + | - " in the top left of the "event list" box... I always thought these were maximize/minimize buttons, not until I hovered over them I could see they were "insert [ins]/delete [del] event" - doh!
     
    I hit the "+" to insert an event and then double clicked on the "Kind" field of the event, a popup "Kind of event" appears, I can chose from a list the type of event to change it to, then I double click in the "data" field of the event.
     
    And then I can choose the patch change... pfffffff
     
     
     
    I know believe when "Alice in Chains" wrote "Dirt" they must have been using Sonar and trying to figure this midi stuff out  

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