Helpful ReplyHow to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation?

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mrpippy2
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2018/07/20 12:20:46 (permalink)

How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation?

Hello all, I realize there is probably something pretty basic I'm missing here.  I'm working on a tune that currently has about 50 tracks, most of which contain some sort of volume automation.  As the song has developed, I'm finding that the master is just constantly pegging the red, and a simple vocal track that peaks around -6db is completely inaudible.  I'd like to just lower the volume of pretty much every track (other than the vocal) around 40%, but since most of them contain automation, won't they just jump to their previously set level when the automation occurs?  I'd rather not have to redo all the automations.  Thanks in advance for any tips!

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promidi
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/20 12:26:00 (permalink)
Could you route all the tracks you wish to reduce to a bus and then reduce the level of that bus.

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msmcleod
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/20 12:29:59 (permalink)
Stick it in offset mode, lower the volume, then switch out of offset mode.
 
[Edit] This question came up yesterday: http://forum.cakewalk.com/OK-School-me-m3772040.aspx  - same answer :)

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mrpippy2
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/20 14:01:02 (permalink)
Those both seem like they would work great, thanks! Think I'll have a look at offset mode, as my issue seems just like what that mode is designed to deal with.

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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/20 14:38:32 (permalink)
Can't you use the Gain function to reduce the overall level of the track? e.g. 1db, 2db etc.
 

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chris.r
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/20 22:55:03 (permalink)
Another option is to trim the output volume in one of the plugins on this track.
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/20 23:32:15 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Sijel 2018/07/24 16:21:51
This happens to everyone eventually. It's even got a name: "fader creep". It happens as you're adjusting track levels; you want to hear a little more snare, so you bump it up a couple dB. Then you realize the bass needs to come up so you add a couple dBs there. Over time, multiple faders will gradually creep upward. Worse, you don't notice it's happened until late in the mixing process when it's a hassle to bring them all back down.
 
The safest method to deal with this is the Gain/Trim method. However, the wrinkle with that approach is it's going to mess with any dynamics processors you have on tracks.
 
Select every track (press CTL-A), pick any one track (preferably one whose current gain value is 0), and hold the CTL key down while you adjust that track's gain by however many decibels you need. All the other selected tracks will follow. Next, run down the tracks one by one, looking for compressors. For each compressor, you will need to lower its threshold by the same amount.
 
However, if none of your individual tracks are in the red, a much easier solution is the bus method. Route all your instruments to an Instruments bus, vocals to a Vocals bus and adjust their relative levels using the Gain sliders on those busses. But only do it this way if no individual tracks are hitting the red. Compensating for in-the-red tracks at the bus level isn't a good idea.
 


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mrpippy2
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/21 02:42:10 (permalink)
These are all really good suggestions (none of which I had thought of or even knew about, i.e. Offset mode), and illustrative of the "more than one tool for the job" quality of Sonar/CbB. Bitflipper, since none of my individual tracks are hitting the red, I think I will try the bus method. Would I route the tracks to a bus using the track sends, or the track output? And if using the sends, and the track is already using a send to deliver signal to a reverb bus, how do I ensure that the track's reverb is also sent to the bus? Sorry to steer the thread more to the bus side than what I had originally asked, but I think it's very relevant to your suggestion. Thanks!

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promidi
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/21 04:50:02 (permalink)
mrpippy2
Would I route the tracks to a bus using the track sends, or the track output?


Personally, I would use the track outputs.  The "selecting all relevant tracks and holding down CTRL" trick should work here as well.

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Blogospherianman
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/21 05:15:29 (permalink)
+1 For Offset mode!! This is exactly what it's for. Using the Gain/trim will affect your gain structure and compressors. Offset mode will allow you to keep all gain structure/compressor reactions AND automation in tact. TIP: If you're quick grouping and Offsetting multiple tracks, you can use the Group manager to manage the quick group to adjust Volume in a Relative way. Helps maintain mix relation when offsetting.
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Blogospherianman
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/21 05:21:02 (permalink)
Problem with using Bus's for this is that when you bus everything and turn the busdown, any aux sends (reverb, delay etc) will still be at the same volume while your main signal is softer, thus affecting you balance of FX. (Reverb will be louder than you want) Another good reason to use Offset mode! 😉
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Blades
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/21 13:01:00 (permalink)
If you do choose offset mode for this don't forget that you set it in that mode. There have plenty of posts over the years here that someone has accidentally put it in offset mode and then can't figure out why nothing works as expected.

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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/22 04:07:02 (permalink)
Indeed Offset mode is one of the really cool features in Cakewalk that is under appreciated. It is perfect for the scenario where you have the mix close to what you want with automation envelopes, but then want to relatively bring up the levels. The advantage with offset mode is that it is can be applied at the track volume (post efffects) level or at the input gain level. In the former case it will not affect the levels sent to effects on the track which can be useful if you want to preserve the dynamics.
 

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/22 09:16:09 (permalink)
I'll be perfectly honest and admit I was totally afraid of Offset Mode after reading several posts describing the untoward effects of using it.
 
This was up until about 6/7 years ago.
 
Now I know HOW to use it (i.e. switch back to envelope mode when finished!!) I find it one of the most useful tools in the box.

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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/23 12:17:13 (permalink)
promidi

Personally, I would use the track outputs.  The "selecting all relevant tracks and holding down CTRL" trick should work here as well.




But it's volume automation we're talking about. Wouldn't the track output follow the automation anyway? Track would start with the changed output level, but jump back to the original at the first automation node, wouldn't it?

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/23 15:34:31 (permalink)
Yes that's exactly what would happen Kalle.

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Re: How to lower overall volume of a track that contains automation? 2018/07/25 14:57:18 (permalink)
Offset is SORT OF like what a VCA (or a DCA on a digital board) would be like.  Sorta.  That is one feature of Cakewalk that would be nice to have.  The option to have VCAs along with Busses and Aux channels. 

A VCA is similar to a bus, however, it physically controls the faders on the tracks mapped to it.  So if a track is in the red, it can actually lower it, along with the other channels mapped to it...an advantage of that is to put drums mapped to a VCA so you can lower the overall level of each drum track with one slider before feeding it into a Limiter. (The VCA would have to then be mapped to a bus, since you can't put FX on VCAs).  
 

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