How to make the electric/acoustic guitars sound real for those who do not know how to play

you pretty much cant- this is where you have to have something cool enough that a guitar player is into working with you, or break out the dough man!

Lance

Hi Ryan,

You can't do what you want to do with Dim Pro .... but you can with this ...

Real Guitar from MusicLab

Bub


Hi Ryan,

You can't do what you want to do with Dim Pro .... but you can with this ...

Real Guitar from MusicLab

I can second Bub's recommendation. I am also a keyboard player that cannot play guitar but does own all the Music Lab guitar packages. You are not going to replicate a real guitarist but you can sound decent. The samples on the guitars sound very good also. They are coming out with a new version of Real Guitar that uses a game controller guitar as a controller if you can believe it. I don't know whether to be happy, laugh, or cry about this ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_bqB9hHj0Gw


Ken

Pfffff... are you guys saying that you could fool me in some kind of test? Wouldn't that exercise put that one to rest with today's current technology? Are you up for it? A challenge perhaps?  

It's so hard to get a decent acoustic guitar recording. Move two inches one way or the other too close or too far from the mic(s) and it doesn't sound right. Not to mention keeping it in tune.

One thing I noticed about the video link Ken posted ... the guy is only playing one chord. I wonder how the controller handles chord changes? You can tell in that vid they are keyboard players at heart.

The Strum series from AAS looks interesting too, still running on bundle promo. There are some sound/video demos as well.

http://www.applied-acoustics.com/products/#ProfessionalSeries
Can read more about it here

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep08/articles/aasstrumacousticgs1.htm

Since I do play guitars, I do not have this yet.

I thought everyone was a guitar player?

If the question you first ask is related to getting sampled or synth guitar sounds realistic, there is no way! I have played guitar for over 45 years and I can tell you the guitar sounds in synthesizers or samplers are useless. Even as a pro pianist would say that the grand piano sounds of an electronic keybooard or plugin is useless. Let's face it. When we use sampled or synthetic instruments we tend to have a WOW! moment. As in that sounds great! After a while we begin searching for the next WOW! moment and have to have the new updated library or plug. Nothing will ever replace the real instrument in the hands of a really proficcient player. If you are trying to physically imitate the guitarist you need to pay close attention to the strum,up or down. Also the bend and the gliss or slide. Most guys overlook the most important element. Even most GM librarys have the fret noise sample. Not a guitar player alive plays with out creating fret noise. It depends on how much detail you want. MOST IMPORTANT! CHORD VOICING! Most keyboard players tend to play chords on a guitar patch like a piano chord. Guitar chords don't work that way. Lastly, Pianist have ten fingers for eighty-eight keys. Guitarist have only 6 strings on a standard guitar. On top of that, a guitar player usually uses only four fingers and sometimes the thumb for the chord work. It would help you to pick up a beginner's book for guitar or look on the internet for guitar chord info to learn the proper voicings.

I think that you can do a sound that you like. I feel confident that software in advanced experienced and creative hand/head can do a good sound that can compete with acoustic instrument player. I would not rank true acoustic sound and its' computer modelling, as each deserve its' place and advantages. Perhaphs at high tempo software instrument can do better then a tru virtuoso player As Randy (bowser) mentioned at a discussion of Jazz Big Band from Garritan (a year ago it was available at Cakewalk store at half price) it takes near the same time to learn software instrument as to play acoustic instrument. My experience of playing violin during childhood confirms that it is great advantage to have true instrument experience to apply it then to software instruments (limitations, certain techniques, and imagining what software instrument can do for you to get a true instrument result, etc) Here are few my examples of using Dimension for similar tasks Beethoven Moonlight sonata by Zither of Dimension Pro, with no advanced seetings/play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz74nNCKbWg (I am sure I could add expression by using certain pickup technique small bass modeler by Behringer, that I probably could similarly accomplish with some plugin) Here is my violin/cello play of Pachelbel Canon in D, a kind of work in progress with some advanced Dimension Pro play, I like it but still do see a ways to improve the performance (perhaphs there is a bit of Studio Instruments strings added in this recording) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swjzHEkO7ns Here is We wish you a Merry Christmas with Russian Balalaika play with SFZ+ (and some advanced settings play) and free sound font (plus sax at Dim Pro with no advanced play): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5AX15oEwBM I think my sound is much to do with modeling Abbey Road acoustics that I do with a tool from Cakewalk I do not aim to mimic acoustic instruments, however, I aim to get the sound thjat I (and my kids) enjoy

I've spent quite a bit of time finding suitable emulations for accoustic piano and guitar. Piano, sans micing up the grand, can be made practically acceptable. And I got quite close with guitar lead emulations including humanizing vibratos...occasionally fooling guitarists (who weren't tipped off in advance!). However, strumming is a different story. As long as you don't go for too much, you can pull it off to an acceptable level.  That said, I've since learned to play guitar.

I'm much better on keys, but after 4 years, I can pull off pretty much all I need on guitar. For you keyboardists considering the same, I can tell you that learning to play guitar is a gas. Its a different instrument with unique rewards...its wonderfully kinesthetic! Just be aware, you'll soon have more guitars and amps than you really need :).

RealGuitar and the other MusicLab products are the best (and I own several others so I am speaking from experience). For strumming, it won't take too much work to get realistic parts. For lead playing, you either have to understand guitar or else keep the parts very simple. I do some good leads with virtual guitars but call in players for complex things. A good player not only plays better parts, he/she THINKS of better parts.

Realtracks via Band In A Box is another option.

I agree with Sidroe to a point-
I have been playing guitar for about 35 years. I heard a keyboard player using no trick software play a hell of a guitar. Could I tell the difference? Of course.
But the point I am making is - it's how the was playing and voicing chords that made it sound as good as it did.

Glyn Barnes


Acoustic Guitar is more difficult to fake than electric, particularly heavily distorted or effected electric guitars.

For Kontakt 4 (and later) owners Orange Tree's Steel Strings is about as good as it gets for Acoustic guitar emulation.

For strumming you set up 12 articlations mapped to 12 trigger keys (or use on of the presets). The articulations let you set up stroke, down stroke, the degree of mute, the number of strings in the strum etc. You hold down a chord on the keyboard and its converted into a proper guitar voicing, then strum it using the strum keys. The MOD wheel controls the alternative chord voicings.

Also for Kontakt, Indiginus ACC can be reasonably effective. Its a lot simpler (and much cheaper) than Steel Strings or Real Guitar but is very direct and intuitive. The main limitation is a maximum of 12 chord voicings per instance. Articulations, like mutes, are velocity switched.

The best results will always be from a competent guitarist propery mic'ed up. But for faking parts that are not too far forward in the mix there are options.

How would you compare the sound quality of the ones you mentioned to Kontakts own Akkord Guitar? I know Akkord isn't near as adjustable, but what about the sound itself? I ask, because I think Akkord sounds quite nice, but is a bit short of options.

For me the easiest way to get believable guitars is to use sampled audio loops.  I can usually find & tweak (using Audiosnap)  something that sounds completely natural for most projects. MIDI loops can also be good but the quality varies greatly and finding samples that respond naturally tends to be challenging.

Here's a good set to start with: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb10/articles/studioguitars.htm

-e.B